News Lumix S9 - new camera rumor roundup

[Nevyn72]

I've done 3 camera events and agree. That's a lot of gear to keep running. But I had not considered using the S9 as a fixed camera, but as hand held while the other camera (or cameras) is running on a tripod. This way I can easily control the clip length.

For events thats fine, although I had to make sure the S5 doesn't hit the 30 min limit. But thats what I already have now.

However for an interview I would prefer not to move to much because it interrupts the interview to much. I set the S5ii on automatic focus for the person to be interviewed, and the S5 on manual for the person who does the interview. The S9 would than be used as a overview with both on them.

But for vacation the S9 would be really great, light and doesn't look from the outside that you can get Pro quality, what is often useful in Musea and such.

Just bought two lenses (the 28-200mm and the 16-28mm), so we have to wait for a while anyways but I do hope you get a setting for this with a firmware upgrade.

 

[Pete_W]

A question Paul, do we want to encourage S9 users to join this forum? Do we want people talking about LUTs, and how to best post to social media? In my opinion we absolutely do. Do we want to be in a position to not only understand them, but to answer questions and help them if we can (should any choose to join the forum)? For sure. But to do this we all have a lot to learn.

Yes, we absolutely do.

Over at DPR, S9 users would feel most unwelcome given the level of garbage and criticism being shovelled out about the camera and the company. Just being a Panasonic owner in the DPR m4/3 forum is an exercise in frustration.

Richard reported this in his review too.

And Gordon Laing too in his review.

 

[Oíche]

Ignore dpreview, it's bad for your health... And DLTBGYD... Log out of it and stay away. I've just got a new phone and having to login to everything again but giving that a miss again. I once didn't login for 11 years or something. It's nearly as good as giving up facebook and other unhealthy "social" garbage.

The S9 is the only compact FF which can do open gate to my knowledge.

 

[Markuswelder]

Yes, we absolutely do.

Over at DPR, S9 users would feel most unwelcome given the level of garbage and criticism being shovelled out about the camera and the company. Just being a Panasonic owner in the DPR m4/3 forum is an exercise in frustration.



And Gordon Laing too in his review.

Well, given the state of health -or lack thereof, for old school photography forums, I'd suspect that the S9 will probably outlast a lot of them. DPreview crashed and burned, had to be revived from the dead, the G100 is still going strong ha ha ha ha ha. POTN, one of the biggest and most active Canon, and then all brand photo forums is dead and buried, the replacement startup is just limping along as far as I can tell, that's just a couple off the top of my head.

 

[Pete_W]

Ignore dpreview, it's bad for your health... And DLTBGYD... Log out of it and stay away. I've just got a new phone and having to login to everything again but giving that a miss again. I once didn't login for 11 years or something. It's nearly as good as giving up facebook and other unhealthy "social" garbage.

I should get off. I've posted too much there over the past week. It's a bit like a car crash. You can't help but look.

 

[Pete_W]

Well, given the state of health -or lack thereof, for old school photography forums, I'd suspect that the S9 will probably outlast a lot of them. DPreview crashed and burned, had to be revived from the dead, the G100 is still going strong ha ha ha ha ha. POTN, one of the biggest and most active Canon, and then all brand photo forums is dead and buried, the replacement startup is just limping along as far as I can tell, that's just a couple off the top of my head.

Yes, DPR is a shadow of itself in terms of reviews and serious articles. It's clearly having to learn to live with just a few staff members now.

And it's posting dumb articles like this one: "Question of the week: if you could pick one lens, and only one, what would it be?

 

[Oíche]

Over at DPR, S9 users would feel most unwelcome given the level of garbage and criticism being shovelled out about the camera and the company

I've only read a single user here describing the S9 a mistake and wishing it was never made as it destroys Lumix reputation. I refused to counter comment.

As you all know I switched from Pentax as it was nearly dead and not worth continuing in, if they had even the 26 f8 there would be euphoria nevermind the S9 release. They have nothing like this noawadays and sadly desperate hopes in a 1/2 frame toy like film camera.

The main problem is despite it's hipster appearance it is still an S5ii and technically difficult to use for the supposed market. I'm a tech geek and find the S5ii too much but all mirrorless are the same I think hence the easier to use phones argument is valid.

I'm kind of reminded why I liked manual film cameras... The simplicity

 

[Oíche]

I should get off. I've posted too much there over the past week. It's a bit like a car crash. You can't help but look.

Yip, you know when using your valuable energy posting into a hole but feel the need to retort... That is when you stop.

So far here is is good, we can critique and take the piss in a good way and we all know it is in that flavour and we enjoy it. DPreview is a snakepit of venom, no joy and trolls so let it go

 

[Markuswelder]

The time limit for editing my previous post ran out, so I'll continue here. I'm old school. Just your average, older person that's happy to snap a few shots here and there, of the goings on in my day to day life. And yet I'm excited to see features like in camera LUT's appearing. I can see the opportunities for it to make my hobby a bit more fun, enjoyable and creative, easily. I'm hoping that the new Lumix Lab app becomes backwards compatible with cameras such as my G100, and S5. Not for in camera processing, but for processing images after capture, on a mobile device. Not sure if it will work that way, or if it's just a first step in that direction.
Yet all most of the short sighted and narrow minded "reviewers" can do, is whine and cry about how difficult it is to get their heads around it. Unbelievable.

 

[dirk]

The S9 is the only compact FF which can do open gate to my knowledge.

AND has the best IBIS you can get on the market. No other fullframe camera that small has IBIS or can match the quality.

AND has this new LUT system, no one else has (if you like to use LUTs, otherwise use the S9 as any other camera).

I do not like the price, but the feature package is IMHO really good.

There are always things I would like to have more. That is the nature of the beast. But in this size?

And Panasonic needs to make money longterm even if the S9 prices will be significantly lower in 6 months. This has to be considered in the feature calculation too, when you design a new camera model.

 

[dirk]

I should get off. I've posted too much there over the past week. It's a bit like a car crash. You can't help but look.

Bring over your buddies, tell everybody why you leave and where you go and leave the trolls behind you there.

Life is too short to run battles for a hobby.

 

[dirk]

POTN, one of the biggest and most active Canon, and then all brand photo forums is dead and buried, the replacement startup is just limping along as far as I can tell, that's just a couple off the top of my head.

When the founder of POTN announced, that he will close and delete everything, I offered him to take over and also setup a rescue forum for that community (URL is POTNforum.com).

I could have imported all old postings, users etc. into that forum. But the mods banned me there to avoid that more POTN users can hear about it.

Similar like at dpreview last year when I offered DPRforum.com

It is really crazy how people act and how big communities are destroyed because of some egos amd trolls only.

 

[xaviergut]

I've done 3 camera events and agree. That's a lot of gear to keep running. But I had not considered using the S9 as a fixed camera, but as hand held while the other camera (or cameras) is running on a tripod. This way I can easily control the clip length.

This past week I spent a couple of days recording the construction of a Buddhist stupa with 3 cameras:

1. the S5IIx with the Lumix 20-60mm as the main camera with which to take all kinds of shots (from close-ups to general shots, including the placement of stones, the mixing of cement, the placement of offerings, etc...)

2. My wife's S5 (OG) with the 14-28mm mounted on a tripod in an elevated general plane parallel to one of the sides of the stupa (square base)

3. The Olympus E-M1 mark 3 to make a timelapse.

Well, it turns out that the Olympus failed me 3 times! Suddenly it stopped taking photos... and it didn't make the video at the end of each photo sequence, which it should do automatically. And the battery was still at 32%.

In the end I had to resort to the S1R to make timelapses and videos. But now is when I'm thinking about changing the Olympus for the S9 or another S5II.

This is the finished stupa:

• Panasonic - DC-S1R
• LUMIX S 14-28/F4-5.6
• 28.0 mm
• ƒ/5.6
• 1/200 sec
• Pattern
• Auto exposure
• ISO 100

I now have 430 gigabytes of video material to edit... and I used a LUT and MP4 video on the S5IIx to save editing and storage

 

[pdk42]

A question Paul, do we want to encourage S9 users to join this forum? Do we want people talking about LUTs, and how to best post to social media? In my opinion we absolutely do. Do we want to be in a position to not only understand them, but to answer questions and help them if we can (should any choose to join the forum)? For sure. But to do this we all have a lot to learn.

We should welcome anyone using a L-mount camera. But if they are all youngsters (as your second part below implies) then I doubt they will join a forum like this. I say this because I have two kids (21 and 23) and they think forums like this are for old men!! As you say, we have a lot to learn!

My company hires lots of Summer interns. These are students who are between their third and fourth university year. I get to work with some of them, and at the end of the Summer we have an executive review where I get to hear from each student, what they did and what they learned, and any bad or good feedback about the company. I am so old I have almost no other interactions with the younger generations, so this is always an eye opening and learning experience for me. Kids today are not like the kids we knew when we were kids. If we play our cards right we might have some of that experience on this forum.

That's a great anecdote Charles and I applaud your desire to reach out the new generation. I agree that it would be great to get them to contribute here.

 

[pdk42]

Now that the dust has settled somewhat on the release and most of the reviewers who went to Osaka have dutifully posted positive reviews, here are my thoughts...

• I still don't understand the market to whom Panasonic are pitching the S9. I don't know what a "content creator" is. I don't understand the difference between YT creators and TikTok creators.
• But whatever we call them, surely these "content creators" can't all have the same needs? Presumably, if my content is just me blabbering into the camera, then that need is completely different to, say, a piece on skydiving or on stock car racing or on ballet.
• It seems to me that anyone spending upwards of £/$/€ 1000 on a camera will only do so if they think they need it. Why might they need it? Chances are that anyone with that sort of cash will already have a smartphone, so the camera needs to do more than a smartphone - so that means they need either better quality images/footage or FOV coverage that the smartphone won't do (esp long lenses).
• So my logical conclusion is that these "content creators" will be sophisticated buyers who want something that will deliver them the quality and usability needed for their productions/output. I can't imagine that an S9 with the 26mm f8 lens will do much more than my iPhone 11 Pro will do in 90%+ of use cases.

So now we need to ask how the S9 measures up against those needs and against the other competitors. In my view it falls short. Every review to date (remember, all produced by people who have been wined and dined by Panasonic in Osaka on Panasonic's expense) have said more or less this:

• This is aimed at the "content creator" market, but that's not me since I'm an "influencer".
• As an influencer, I have more demanding needs, and so the S9 has weaknesses (lack of EVF, lack of mech shutter, lack of headphone jack, 10min recording time, ...).
• But that's OK, because those "creators" are less sophisticated than me.
• A market must exist for the S9 because Panasonic have great marketing insight.

Personally, I find all this rather patronising to the "creators". It makes them sound like they can't judge a decent product or not. I predict that once all these "influencers" get back home that the S9 will quickly fade from their minds and we will hear little about the camera from them again.

Now, maybe I'm so out of touch with the target market that I'm talking nonsense, but why would anyone not already into L-mount buy an S9 rather than a Sony ZV1, or a Sony A7Cii, or even an S5ii? It would have to be a lot cheaper than £/$/€ 1500 (body only) for me to do that.

So, I'll make a prediction that the S9 will be a sales flop and selling at <£/$/€1000 by Christmas! I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Quentinquirelino]

I

...
So, I'll make a prediction that the S9 will be a sales flop and selling at <£/$/€1000 by Christmas! I hope I'm wrong.

I would hold against that. I think it will be huge success. The early reviews are mainly from tech influencers and they are a specific kind of content creators with high expectations on cameras. But I think in the world of content creators they are a small minority. I think the camera is very appealing to less technical people. And there is a hunch crowd of that kind of people. From mommy influencers over fashion blogger to travel bloggers. Many of them using their iPhone or Android but some also prefer a dedicated camera. And there is money in those communities and the looks of the camera may attracts more than other cameras.

Additional there are some photographers who don't use an EVF and may don't mind a electronic shutter for there needs or have lower expectations for a smaller second body. However this group is probably much smaller than the first one, but I think it's bigger than many are thinking.

All that said. The success, especially in the first group, depends much on the easiness of the workflow with the camera and how well controlled rolling shutter issues, like banding are.

 

[dirk]

That sounds interesting. Let's take the crystal ball to see the future.

I am in the middle camp. If the statement of Panasonic is correct, that the G100 was a success, I do think that the S9 will also be a success. But at a lower price. So, I am between both camps. I do think that Panasonic needs to lower the price not because it its the wrong product or has the wrong feature set but because the masses are used to the Sony name for vlogging and you have to be more aggressive in price to motivate them to try something new out of the well-known products in your neighborhood. Otherwise you risk that these people will take the Sony APS-C model for around 700€. Panasonic has nothing similar with a smaller sensor. Another argument for a Lumix GX10, by the way

But to be honest, no matter at which brand you look, the price is always the highest at introduction and decreases over the time. Like computers. No matter whether the product is good or bad. Black Friday is coming each year.

Also very long term. If I see at what price I can buy today a Nikon D850, it is shocking. The D850 is one of the best cameras made ever and still is top notch. The list price at introduction in 2017 was 3600€, now you get it brand new well below 2400€. This is crazy for such a great camera. The difference is almost the price of the Lumix S9 alone. If you count in inflation, the current price of the D850 is basically 50% of the introduction price.

 

[xaviergut]

I think the camera is very appealing to less technical people. And there is a hunch crowd of that kind of people. From mommy influencers over fashion blogger to travel bloggers.

Exactly. I invite the forum to watch just 2 minutes of this video by Dustin Amstrong (from 1:04 to 2:48):

 

[Quentinquirelino]

Yes

... I do think that the S9 will also be a success. But at a lower price. ...

Well. I also think 1699 € without a lens is to high. But we all know that you almost never pay list prices with Panasonic. There will great deals in the future.

The bigger problem, I see in the lenses. The 18-40 looks good to me, but isn't available yet. I can't see anyone honestly interested in the 26/8. Some will pick it up in a deal together with the camera. Some will buy it used from somebody who picked it up in a deal together with the camera. But I don't think someone has much use of it. Any other Panasonic Lens is quite big for the camera. Maybe the 28-200 for some, but if I was a dealer, I would bundle the S9 with Sigma I-Series lenses until the 18-40 arrives.

 

[Oíche]

Are you all forgetting the S9 with open gate, 24MP FF, IBIS and the LUT features is already the cheapest small FF camera with this style? It's already £680 cheaper than Sony ZV-E1.

You can buy the likes of the S 35 f1.8 with it for only £269 in the UK which takes about £300 off the price. New Lumix buyers can take advantage of this just like I did with S5ii and lenses was about 1/2 the overall price of Canon R6ii or Nikon Z6ii with similar lenses.

For vlogging the S 18mm f1.8 looked wonderful on the S9 going by Gordon Laing's footage and he says this is what you want for it. So the 18-40mm should be a big hit and should have been ready with the S9 release. 18mm f4.5 with FF should look good enough for bokeh.

I wonder how many of us will own an S9 in 1-2 years? It seems many are slow to accept it but could be a slow grower on many, not all naturally.