News Lumix S9 - new camera rumor roundup

[Markuswelder]

Yes, I think Panasonic should stop making cameras... They better concentrate on making vacuum cleaners

No no no no. You are wrong. It was always microwaves and toaster ovens as the ultimate forum put down

 

[dirk]

Ok, let's be serious again and talk about the S9.

There is a video review of Hugh Brownstone about the S9 and he addressed some of our points. I thought that I linked it already, but do not see it atm. Maybe I was too tired.



I think a very good review about the S9 and with @Richard Wong review together one of the best so far. It has a totally different approach, but this is the beauty of having different reviews available.

All but Maiko and Swordsman images have been shot with the 20-60. Those with the 100/2.8S

 

[Markuswelder]

Ok, let's be serious again and talk about the S9.

There is a video review of Hugh Brownstone about the S9 and he addressed some of our points. I thought that I linked it already, but do not see it atm. Maybe I was too tired.



I think a very good review about the S9 and with @Richard Wong review together one of the best so far. It has a totally different approach, but this is the beauty of having different reviews available.

All but Maiko and Swordsman images have been shot with the 20-60. Those with the 100/2.8S

That man has a voice that could sell Ice to Eskimos. Smooth as buttered Silk, very very pleasant to listen to

 

[dirk]

I personally would love to have a S9x with an EVF in a rangefinder style with a tilting screen.

But I start to doubt, whether this would be possible without making the size of the body bigger. We will only find out, if Panasonic would launch a S9x.

In the meantime, I get more and more interested in the S9, but only for a different price tag.

The issues I have and this has to be checked at a dealer to have it in the hands:

• Is the screen brightness strong enough and reflexion not too bad in the sun to be able to frame the image and focus it correctly?
• Rolling shutter risks in street photography/normal family shots
• How big does the S9 feels in the hand in reality?

Maybe it just feels uncomfortable compared to a Ricoh GR3 or Lumix GX9? It does not help to have a fullframe sensor but you do not take it with you, because it feels like a brick. The Leica Q3 for example is way to big to feel like a lightweight carry around P&S.

If the screen is not bright enough in sunlight, it will limit the shooting envelope too much for me.

The Ricoh GR3 is not great with this. I would not like to go below that benchmark. The Ricoh GR3 and Ricoh GR3x cost around 1.000€ each and are truly pocketable, have a leaf shutter and exceptional good usability and shooting envelope and excellent lenses. Therefore these 2 Ricoh GRs are my benchmark for all other alternatives like the Fuji X100 series, Leica Q series etc

 

[Pete_W]

Not. Because it's already doing damage to Panasonic's reputation. No headphone jack! 10 minute open gate limit! Not suitable for vloggers, sorry.

But let's see how things pan out. Perhaps the Lumix line will be redeemed and this blot will be forgotten. Or perhaps it will be another "toneh" moment!

But I am thinking it's suitable for me!

I shoot mainly with an S5II. But I kept my GX85 m4/3 camera to use as a light-weight walkaround casual camera.

Look at this size comparison of the S9 vs GX85. They are very close in size which surprised me!






With the GX85, I don't use the EVF, I shoot electronic shutter, I don't use the hot shot or the pop-up flash and when I occasionally shoot video, the clips would be at most 3 minutes long.

So if I upgrade my GX85 to an S9, I have one lens mount and get to use the same batteries and external charger that I already have. And the small Sigma Contemporary primes with aperture rings that I have will work beautifully on the S9.

I am not seeing the downside, although I will wait for the price to drop. The local Australian RRP is $2,700 due to the USD/AUD exchange rate but a few stores have it listed at $2,500.

 

[Oíche]

With the GX85

Trade it in, get rid of it. I've always said your FF images are better. One mount and less stuff, you can just think about the photos and video. Makes your smaller Sigmas more useable or more appealing.

Some haters on dpreview for the S9 Pete, just the usual dp troll stuff.

 

[Pete_W]

Trade it in, get rid of it. I've always said your FF images are better. One mount and less stuff, you can just think about the photos and video. Makes your smaller Sigmas more useable or more appealing.

Some haters on dpreview for the S9 Pete, just the usual dp troll stuff.

Yep, the haters are out in force at DPR! It's amusing to see them getting so wound up over a camera they don't want.

 

[dirk]

@Pete_W

I think also it would be a good alternative to a GX85/GX9, although I would prefer to have a GX10, because I used my GX9 always with a viewfinder. But the S9 pushed tge same buttons for me.

The comparison images between GX85 and S9 are the reason why I start to doubt, that it will be technically possible to put an EVF into the same dimensions of the S9.



I will never give up on MFT.

 

[Pete_W]

I think also it would be a good alternative to a GX85/GX9, although I would prefer to have a GX10, because I used my GX9 always with a viewfinder. But the S9 pushed tge same buttons for me.

The comparison images between GX85 and S9 are the reason why I start to doubt, that it will be technically possible to put an EVF into the same dimensions of the S9.

I will never give up on MFT.

I understand.

I always intended to keep the GX85 as I wanted the option of having a smaller/lighter camera for certain situations.

However I wasn't expecting Panasonic to release a small FF camera like the S9 so now I am tempted by having just one set of lenses and batteries. As soon as the price seems affordable I will probably get the S9.

It's difficult to know if Panasonic will do another small rangefinder style body in MFT. I feel it is unlikely.

 

[dirk]

It's difficult to know if Panasonic will do another small rangefinder style body in MFT. I feel it is unlikely.

The likelyhood for a GX10 increased IMHO with the launch of the G9ii.

It all depends on what you can put technically in a body with size limitations.

As far as it looks like atm, it will technically not be possible to put at the same time a mechanical shutter, IBIS, a good EVF and a tilting screen into a body of the size of the S9.

You can of course make a S9x with an EVF bigger, but then the main advantage to use an RF style is gone. Could be still attractive, but size would not be the selling point anymore.

If my assumption is correct, then the only way to have these 4 features in a small body like the S9 or even smaller, is to use a smaller sensor. Either APS-C or MFT.

Since there seems to be no interest of Leica or Panasonic to offer APS-C lenses, I doubt that we would see an L-Mount APS-C body.

At the same time I doubt that Panasonic will leave this very interesting market to Fuji or Sony.

So, the only option for Panasonic would be to bring out a GX10, with the G9ii sensor, with a good EVF, mechanical shutter, IBIS and tilting screen. This would give Fuji and Sony a hard time to beat.

This is why I believe, that there will be sooner or later a successor of the GX9 and why I doubt atm, that there will be ever a kind of S9-sized body with an EVF, mechanical shutter, IBIS and tilting screen.

I hope that I am right on the GX10 and wrong on the S9x, though.

 

[CharlesH]

There is a video review of Hugh Brownstone about the S9 and he addressed some of our points. I thought that I linked it already, but do not see it atm. Maybe I was too tired.

You posted it before, somewhere back there. Yes, it is one of the best reviews.

 

[xaviergut]

So, the only option for Panasonic would be to bring out a GX10, with the G9ii sensor, with a good EVF, mechanical shutter, IBIS and tilting screen.

I believe that the main improvement of a hypothetical GX10 over the excellent GX9 is the PDAF and the video specs.

Leica has just announced the D-Lux 8, whose main improvement over the D-Lux 7 is the PDAF and some of the video specs, IMHO.

But if a GX10 comes out with many of the features of the G9ii, the anti-Lumix battalion will take a hard look at the physical characteristics that make it not as good as the G9ii, which is exactly what we are seeing with the S9 regarding the S5ii.

The important thing is to criticize any minimal limitation of a camera whose main objective is to be small and manageable in the smallest possible physical space.

 

[dirk]

My wish list for the GX10 would be the sensor and AF of the G9ii and better EVF than the GX9. That would be all I would need.

Back to the S9. Here is a video review, which shows the quality of the internal mic of the S9 and the results of different mic settings.

Mic testing starts at minute 7:04.

 

[Biro]

I’m trying not the be too judgemental yet about the S9. But the lack of a mechanical shutter does have me concerned. That said, I have the following questions about the new camera:

1) If one were to mount an APS-C L-mount lens on the S9, would the camera default to crop mode like its S5 brethren?

2) If one has not yet downloaded custom LUTs to the S9, does the camera’s menu include traditional white balance and scene modes like the S5? Or is one forced to go the LUT route?

3) How easy or difficult is it to see and compose with the S9’s rear scene in bright sunlight?

I have four Sigma DG DN full-frame primes for L-mount that I could use on the S9: the 17mm f/4, the 24mm f/3.5, the 45mm f/2.8 and the 90mm f/2.8. I also have a few lenses from my APS-C Leica CL that might work on the S9. Among them are the 18mm and 23mm Leica pancakes and the two f/2.8 Sigma zooms - the 10-18mm and the 18-50mm. But I want to know how well the rear LCD holds up in bright sunlight and whether the electronic shutter will mean rolling-shutter issues too often.

 

[dirk]

Re. #1. maybe @Richard Wong can answer this

Re. #2. You can use the S9 like a normal camera, i.e. like the S5. LUTs are an optional feature. You are not forced to use them.

Re. #3. This is I think a very subjective thing. Different people will give you different answers. Bright sunlight in Bali will be different than bright sunlight in New York and everyone feels different about "good enough". Watch the Video of Hugh Brownstone for this. There are also ways to reduce that problem. You can buy anti-reflective covers for this. Hugh mentioned this in his review.

Rolling shutter and problems with artificial light of ES is the same as #3. Depends on what you shoot and how you shoot. For the artificial light issue see also the video of Julia above. I think at the end she has some footage for this.

 

[CharlesH]

I’m trying to give Panasonic the benefit of the doubt by assuming they know the market better than I do, but I’m still not getting it. I find cameras like the Leica Q3, Sony A7C/A7CR, Sony RX1, Fuji X100 etc all hold some appeal to me, even though it’s unlikely I buy any of them. The S9 could easily have dropped into that same category, but with much more chance of ending up in a checkout basket since I’m already heavily invested in L mount. But it’s just missed the mark in too many areas to even slightly tempt me.

A question Paul, do we want to encourage S9 users to join this forum? Do we want people talking about LUTs, and how to best post to social media? In my opinion we absolutely do. Do we want to be in a position to not only understand them, but to answer questions and help them if we can (should any choose to join the forum)? For sure. But to do this we all have a lot to learn.

My company hires lots of Summer interns. These are students who are between their third and fourth university year. I get to work with some of them, and at the end of the Summer we have an executive review where I get to hear from each student, what they did and what they learned, and any bad or good feedback about the company. I am so old I have almost no other interactions with the younger generations, so this is always an eye opening and learning experience for me. Kids today are not like the kids we knew when we were kids. If we play our cards right we might have some of that experience on this forum.

 

[HarisO]

Just saw someone on Reddit who has access to the S9 do a bit of an AMA: What do you want me to test on the S9 right now? : r/Lumix (reddit.com)

For me the most interesting tidbit was that the person took 6 videos in a row. Hitting the 10 minute limit and starting a new, without any issues or warning messages. Which to me points to either the limit being completely artificial (to not cannibalise S5ii sales for people that are looking for a B cam?) or that there is probably an edge case with certain ambient temperatures which might lead to overheating and Panasonic would rather be safe than sorry.

 

[Nevyn72]

Just saw someone on Reddit who has access to the S9 do a bit of an AMA: What do you want me to test on the S9 right now? : r/Lumix (reddit.com)

For me the most interesting tidbit was that the person took 6 videos in a row. Hitting the 10 minute limit and starting a new, without any issues or warning messages. Which to me points to either the limit being completely artificial (to not cannibalise S5ii sales for people that are looking for a B cam?) or that there is probably an edge case with certain ambient temperatures which might lead to overheating and Panasonic would rather be safe than sorry.

Different YouTubers said the same.

Panasonic never wants their camera's to overheat.

That being said: the S5ii(X) has settings for that, and it would be great to have a option on the S9 for handling that. I would like at least want 4K/25p 30min. That would make it a C-cam for me (With my S5iiX and S5). 15 minutes it to short if you have 3 camera's to check.

 

[CharlesH]

15 minutes it to short if you have 3 camera's to check.

I've done 3 camera events and agree. That's a lot of gear to keep running. But I had not considered using the S9 as a fixed camera, but as hand held while the other camera (or cameras) is running on a tripod. This way I can easily control the clip length.

 

[dirk]

For me the most interesting tidbit was that the person took 6 videos in a row. Hitting the 10 minute limit and starting a new, without any issues or warning messages.

Richard reported this in his review too.