News Lumix S9 - new camera rumor roundup

[huwm]

I get that it’s not aimed at me a retired stills hobbyist who only shoots video by accident but I’m not sure who it is aimed at really.
The 2 working artists in my household who live on the gram, blog/vlog and run teaching sessions, workshops etc are perfectly happy with their iPhone pros etc and don’t see the need for anything different.
The point above regarding reluctance to change software as well as hardware may play a part of course as they are fully Mac.

 

[pdk42]

I thought Chris Niccolls was particularly grumpy and negative in the S9 review.

Way too many complaints and not understanding or more precisely not wanting to understand the context of the S9. Everything he complained about that is missing in the S9 is available in the S5II so his complaints boil down to a lack of understanding about who Panasonic is targeting this camera at.

He gave his opinion, and he has reviewed a lot of cameras so I think his opinion is worth having.

I’m trying to give Panasonic the benefit of the doubt by assuming they know the market better than I do, but I’m still not getting it. I find cameras like the Leica Q3, Sony A7C/A7CR, Sony RX1, Fuji X100 etc all hold some appeal to me, even though it’s unlikely I buy any of them. The S9 could easily have dropped into that same category, but with much more chance of ending up in a checkout basket since I’m already heavily invested in L mount. But it’s just missed the mark in too many areas to even slightly tempt me.

 

[Markuswelder]

I get that it’s not aimed at me a retired stills hobbyist who only shoots video by accident but I’m not sure who it is aimed at really.
The 2 working artists in my household who live on the gram, blog/vlog and run teaching sessions, workshops etc are perfectly happy with their iPhone pros etc and don’t see the need for anything different.
The point above regarding reluctance to change software as well as hardware may play a part of course as they are fully Mac.

Let me go back to the G100 example above. It was universally reviled and despised by forumtographers. Too expensive. Not enough features. It's missing this. It's missing that. And most reviewers. It was even voted the worst camera of the year, by, surprise surprise, none other than Chris Nichols etc. Sounds familiar?
Yet Sean Robinson from Panasonic, said it sells ridiculously well for them. The forumtographers response -he's telling lies, just marketing etc etc etc. Yet, they have given it a very minor refresh, and it's still on sale.
Surely it's not possible that Panasonic and their market research teams know a little bit more about what might actually sell, than grumpy old men sitting at their computers, flapping their fingers all over the keyboard? Surely not? If that were the case, then wouldn't Olympus/OMD be leading the world in camera sales, rather than being on continuous life support?

 

[Oíche]

I get that it’s not aimed at me a retired stills hobbyist who only shoots video by accident but I’m not sure who it is aimed at really.

It's aimed at those who like myself don't do video post processing and want their video available for uploading as quick as possible with the LUT filters they want all done in canera.

The 2 working artists in my household who live on the gram, blog/vlog and run teaching sessions, workshops etc are perfectly happy with their iPhone pros etc and don’t see the need for anything different.
The point above regarding reluctance to change software as well as hardware may play a part of course as they are fully Mac.

An iPhone Pro can't do the video I'm doing with an S5ii and 70-300 nor match any of other zooms or Lumix fast primes. The LUT filters are there in camera so PP is not required, whether they are Mac or not is irrelevant as they'll be uploading without external processing needs.

People are making an issue out of this video time limit, I recorded 2 minutes of a bird feeder lately and that was enough for me.... Therefore everyone else if not shorter, why do you think YouTube shorts are popular?

First thing I look at on YouTube is how long is this, if it's longer than 10 minutes I'm OMG, 20 minutes is no chance unless it"s a very interesting professional documentary.... therefore this supposed problem isn't one in almost all cases and never ever for the S9 target market whatsoever which will likely be minutes.

Those likely to need this will have S5ii and rigged etc so I find this criticism a joke... I'll spell it out... What S9 user is recording more than 10-15 minutes?

Cmon wise up , it's brilliant formerely coming from Pentax, they'd be orgasmic then some

 

[Travis Butler]

I'm a little perplexed about how people criticize Panasonic because they have created the smallest full frame camera on the market, along with the Sigma FP, and say that it doesn't have all the physical characteristics of the S5IIx... well of course, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE PHYSICALLY... I don't know, maybe they were waiting for a miracle.

Furthermore, those people are the ones who would never buy a camera like the S5IIx (or the S5ii, the S5, the S1, the S1H or the S1R), but they have to criticize Panasonic by pretending that they are worried that the company will lose money with the S9. ..and what do they care if Lumix loses money with this camera?

It certainly's brought people out of the woodwork, hasn't it?

I've been vocal about my EVF requirement, but I hope I haven't been as dogmatic as these people!

And yeah, I do have to wonder how much of this is magical thinking on the part of the complainers; they think it's possible to have it all and get upset when they're faced with the reality that they have to make compromises. I certainly understand that you can't fit the S5's viewfinder into something the size of the S9, and would have been happy with a much smaller one like the GM5. A hybrid shutter like the GM series' would have been nice, but I understand it takes extra room and can live without it. I also get that a small body isn't going to have the heat dissipation of something like the S5ii, so I'm fine with limits on recording time. I understand a small body isn't going to have room for lots of physical controls. And I'm pleasantly surprised by them being able to squeeze in IBIS.

So... I understand the need for compromises, and I accept the ones that are inherent in the form factor. I'm annoyed with the lack of an EVF because the GM5 shows that it's possible to fit one into a much smaller body (and one the S9 strongly resembles). But I'm trying not to be dogmatic about it... some of these people act like they're personally insulted.

The emotional reaction seems pretty extreme just for thinking Panasonic's making a mistake. I have to wonder, are they disgruntled because they really want something the size of the S9, but insist that Panasonic can somehow magically squeeze everything into a perfect camera?

 

[AlanC]

He gave his opinion, and he has reviewed a lot of cameras so I think his opinion is worth having.

I’m trying to give Panasonic the benefit of the doubt by assuming they know the market better than I do, but I’m still not getting it. I find cameras like the Leica Q3, Sony A7C/A7CR, Sony RX1, Fuji X100 etc all hold some appeal to me, even though it’s unlikely I buy any of them. The S9 could easily have dropped into that same category, but with much more chance of ending up in a checkout basket since I’m already heavily invested in L mount. But it’s just missed the mark in too many areas to even slightly tempt me.

The closest equivalent to the S9 from another manufacturer would be the Sony ZV-E1, their full frame “content creators” camera. Not exactly very appealing if you want to do photography, and I hope this isn’t setting the theme for future Panasonic S-series cameras.

As to Chris, I think he’s found another camera he believes he can safely bash in the same way he did with the Sigma fp L. DPReview are well rid of him.

 

[CharlesH]

People are making an issue out of this video time limit

So silly, and the 15 minute limit is for a clip. After that you can start another clip. My clips are typically a minute or less. I had a hand held 10 minute clip one time and that seemed like forever.

 

[CharlesH]

I am torn between red and green. What about you?

I ordered black. I don't want people to think I'm one of those young Content Creators.

 

[Pete_W]

As to Chris, I think he’s found another camera he believes he can safely bash in the same way he did with the Sigma fp L. DPReview are well rid of him.

Chris is an OM user and fan so perhaps he's somewhat antagonistic about Panasonic due to m4/3 rivalry?

I watch their weekly 'podcast' (on YouTube) and it has been a bit revealing watching him. He can be churlish and is a frequent complainer compared with the convivial manner you see on the review videos. Meanwhile Jordan, who appears occasionally uncomfortable talking to camera in the review videos comes over very naturally in the podcasts. He is fun to watch and listen to and I feel is much more even-handed when assessing gear.

 

[Pete_W]

The emotional reaction seems pretty extreme just for thinking Panasonic's making a mistake. I have to wonder, are they disgruntled because they really want something the size of the S9, but insist that Panasonic can somehow magically squeeze everything into a perfect camera?

Yes, I find it completely mystifying. Why does anyone get so personally upset and outraged that a company has produced a product that they don't want and won't buy? No-one's forcing them to buy the camera at gun point!

Some of the carry-on I've seen on Panasonic Facebook groups has been so crazy.

 

[Travis Butler]

Chris is an OM user and fan so perhaps he's somewhat antagonistic about Panasonic due to m4/3 rivalry?

I really wish I knew what the heck is going on with that. I used both Olympus and Panasonic M4/3 cameras, and like both. I use both Sigma and Panasonic L-mount cameras, and like both. I'd have hoped that a shared mount would make them get along better, since shared resources means more development effort and more lenses for users of both brands. But, no.

I watch their weekly 'podcast' (on YouTube) and it has been a bit revealing watching him. He can be churlish and is a frequent complainer compared with the convivial manner you see on the review videos. Meanwhile Jordan, who appears occasionally uncomfortable talking to camera in the review videos comes over very naturally in the podcasts. He is fun to watch and listen to and I feel is much more even-handed when assessing gear.

I have to admit, it felt like he had a chip on his shoulder?

But then, those kind of issues are one reason I've always preferred written reviews to video ones, and especially to podcasts. Writing (for me, at least) is a slower, more deliberative process, and from the results it seems like it inspires a lot more reviewers to be thoughtful and less off-the-cuff.

 

[Travis Butler]

Yes, I find it completely mystifying. Why does anyone get so personally upset and outraged that a company has produced a product that they don't want and won't buy? No-one's forcing them to buy the camera at gun point!

That's why I'm wondering if it's frustrated desire. As if they saw the small body and had gadget lust, but it didn't do everything exactly as they wanted, so they decided to throw a tantrum. I do get the gadget lust - I love small cameras (Hello, GM5! Pentax Q!) and small tech gadgets in general (I still remember the Tungsten T fondly) - but I also recognize that going mini does involve compromises.

 

[Pete_W]

I have to admit, it felt like he had a chip on his shoulder?

Yes, that's exactly how it looks.

 

[Travis Butler]

Yes, that's exactly how it looks.

<nod> And it's counterproductive. Very few things make someone lose credibility faster in my eyes than acting like you have an ax to grind, instead of considering something thoughtfully.

 

[dirk]

I do not see these reviews that negative. Each reviewer had different hopes and different preferences and they just say their very personal opinion. It is just one opinion out of many. This is not a Jury with a judge.

Sometimes I agree with a reviewer, sometimes not.

But we can not say on one hand, that youtubers are biased because brand xy payed for the flight and accommodation and on the other hand we complain about these youtubers, if they do not like the product.

On the average I liked always the reviews of Chris an Jordan. Same with others. That does not mean that I agree always on all points of their reviews.

It is good to have different YT reviews with very different opinions. That helps us to make our own conclusion and put our weightings according to our personal preferences.

At the end of the day, it is just a camera or just a lens. Nothing serious. It's not about life or death

 

[Nevyn72]

I ordered black. I don't want people to think I'm one of those young Content Creators.

This is your newest camera/lens combo?

 

[dirk]

I'm annoyed with the lack of an EVF because the GM5 shows that it's possible to fit one into a much smaller body

• The sensor of the GM5 is a lot smaller. You have more space for other things and less heat development
• Non electronic IBIS for a fullframe sensors take a lot of space.
• The GM5 has a tiny battery.
• The GM5 does not have an articulating screen

 

[Markuswelder]

Yes, I find it completely mystifying. Why does anyone get so personally upset and outraged that a company has produced a product that they don't want and won't buy? No-one's forcing them to buy the camera at gun point!

Absolutely. I really don't get it. Personally, I'd have liked to have seen it with an EVF, but just because it doesn't I'm not going to throw all my toys out of the pram. And tell the whole world what a miserable, misguided company Panasonic is while I'm at it. I'm not in the target market for the camera, but I still love reading about it, watching all the different reviews, and basically just educating/informing myself. It's a hobby, supposed to be enjoyable and good fun. A lot of what I'm reading and watching online is certainly not reflecting people's experience of that, not by a long shot.

 

[Markuswelder]

And yeah, I do have to wonder how much of this is magical thinking on the part of the complainers; they think it's possible to have it all and get upset when they're faced with the reality that they have to make compromises. I certainly understand that you can't fit the S5's viewfinder into something the size of the S9, and would have been happy with a much smaller one like the GM5. A hybrid shutter like the GM series' would have been nice, but I understand it takes extra room and can live without it. I also get that a small body isn't going to have the heat dissipation of something like the S5ii, so I'm fine with limits on recording time. I understand a small body isn't going to have room for lots of physical controls. And I'm pleasantly surprised by them being able to squeeze in IBIS.

I can't remember what video review it was that I was watching, but I did see how tightly everything is squeezed into the S9 body in a bit of footage. I was surprised just how tight the fit was for the battery, for starters. I'm astounded that they've managed to fit the S5II IBIS into that tiny little body. Can you imagine the weeping and wailing if the battery was say half the size?

 

[xaviergut]

And yeah, I do have to wonder how much of this is magical thinking on the part of the complainers; they think it's possible to have it all and get upset when they're faced with the reality that they have to make compromises. I certainly understand that you can't fit the S5's viewfinder into something the size of the S9, and would have been happy with a much smaller one like the GM5. A hybrid shutter like the GM series' would have been nice, but I understand it takes extra room and can live without it. I also get that a small body isn't going to have the heat dissipation of something like the S5ii, so I'm fine with limits on recording time. I understand a small body isn't going to have room for lots of physical controls. And I'm pleasantly surprised by them being able to squeeze in IBIS.

Exactly, that was my point, but you expressed it much better (my English is a bit limited)...

I saw the video of the S9 made by Photo Joseph, and in one of the comments they criticized the lack of hot shoe, one card slot, easy overheat, no headphone connector, etc., well, this people are free to buy all the S1 and S5 Panasoic Lumix line and get all that!!! But not in the smallest full frame camera on the market...

By the way, here is the video (I like his educative or didactic explanations):