News Lumix S9 - new camera rumor roundup

[pdk42]

And as to LUTs … My understanding of video is practically zero, but I can relate to CC’s point about LUTs being the wrong way to go since it sounds exactly like shooting JPEGs with “art filters”. Why do that? It’s not hard to shoot raw and process later - but if you take a JPEG with some “art filter” that tickled your fancy at the time, only to find it looks like something your kids’ would do with crayons once it’s on your PC at home, then you’re screwed. So, I view LUTs as a gimmick. Surely no-one will splash out this sort on money for a limited-feature camera just because it’s got LUTs?

 

[Markuswelder]

The most honest review (as he wasn't at the conference) and especially about the LUTs,

Please please please make up a list, advising us all of the lies & dishonesty that all the other reviewers are feeding us.

 

[Oíche]

I think, there will be a m43 camera in the form factor of the S9. Maybe even in the same body? like the S5ii & G9ii? m43 in this form factor makes much more sense to me. And even though i just revived the my m43 system with a used GX80 i can see the benefits of the smaller entire system, and wont let go of my m43 gear and the adapter to ef where i then get almost the same image quality than with fullframe.

Lumix made loads of m43 small cameras in the past, I like the FF idea and Gordon Laing saying and showing "the S18 f1.8 is the vlogging lens you want for the S9" made the hand held vlogging clip look fantastic with the sticky AF and pop from the background in comparison to the MF 26 f8. Problem is the S18 f1.8 is too big. If they even made a smaller 18mm f2.8 that would have been better.

Richard Wong posted nice nighttime photos with the S9 showing the FF advantage and nicely composed SooC without a viewfinder as I prefer.

Maybe the ~300g range of S primes and lightweight 28-200 could be ideal for lots of users but it is crying out for f2.8 (ish) pancakes, even f4 pancakes would be excellent on FF. But that fixed f8 manual focus 26mm was silly. I used MF lenses all the time with Pentax DSLR and after getting S5ii I never want to use MF again so I can't imagine Tiktokers or whoever getting into manual focussing and that 26mm whatsoever.

Madness to not utilise the PDAF they developed, can't use touchscreen focussing either. They should have had that 18-40 zoom on release (I assume that is AF) or a 18mm f2.8/f4 AF pancake ready for the YouTubers in Japan.

In the UK they are offering S9 bundles with 26 f8 or 20-60 but that both these defeat the whole purpose of the camera. The 85 f1.8 is also offered heavily discounted with it so what are they playing at?

 

[Pete_W]

Did you read the outrage and vitriol directed at the fixed aperture pancake? It's as if Panasonic has personally killed their firstborn ha ha ha ha.
Anyway, I was wrong, and would have lost my house about it. Pretty bold move I think, being manual focus. I don't hate it, just very very surprised. Possibly due to owning the diminutive little m4/3 14mm f2.5

Yeah, it's so funny. It's like kids stamping their feet in some kind of tantrum. "Panasonic hasn't made something with features I think are mandatory. Wahhhh!!!!" I really don't get it. It's like Panasonic have committed a mortal sin. No-one's being forced to buy it. If someone wants all the bells and whistles then they can buy an S5 / S5II / S5IIx or whatever. If someone wants the smaller cut-down edition S9, why not?

I was surprised about the 26mm f8 lens too, but I can only guess that it will work well or they wouldn't have done it. I don't subscribe to the "Panasonic don't know what they're doing" brigade. I am sure there are smarter minds over there in Japan than in DPR forums. Nobody understood the G100 but it sold and continues to sell by the truck load.

 

[Markuswelder]

Nobody understood the G100 but it sold and continues to sell by the truck load.

Exactly. Another little camera that the forumtographers absolutely hated. And told everyone so. Even if they'd never touched or used one. Yet, as you wrote, they sold truckloads of them, and even gave it a very minor update.
Now, does anyone with half a brain think they'd follow the exact same recipe -well it's actually even more pared down with no EVF, if they'd just had a huge failure with another model? Really?
Personally, I've no interest in acquiring an S9, but just because I'm not going to rush out to buy one, doesn't mean that there's no market for the camera.

 

[Nevyn72]

Here a interview I found on facebook, Its the standard 'fancy talk' but still interesting:
Interview with Rob O’Murphy
Lumix Marketing Manager for UK and Nordics
Who is the new compact full frame Lumix S9 camera aimed at? At the camera’s UK press launch I asked this question of Rob O’Murphy, the Marketing Manager for Lumix in the UK and the Nordic countries. He told me something of the company’s thinking behind the feature-set of this unique and pretty groovy camera.

‘The Lumix S9 is aimed at both stills and video photographers, despite its video-heavy features,’ he tells me. ‘There are lots of S series users who want a smaller body, as well as a lot of content creators who would like to be able to shoot better videos without having to learn too much of the technical processes. The size and weight of the camera also make it an ideal bridge to full frame for Micro Four Thirds users, so they can benefit from the step-up in quality in a camera that’s only very slightly larger than the Lumix GX9 MFT model.

‘The new features in the S9 are also aimed directly at both stills and video creators, so it’s a true hybrid camera. We’ve exploited some of our video uniqueness to offer something really quite different to anything else that’s on the market, as the ability to create and use LUTs in-camera will be enjoyed by photographers as well as videographers. The massive Real-Time LUT library brings a huge amount of flexibility to the camera and allows pictures and videos to be given a finished look as soon as they are recorded. Then, because it’s so easy to connect the camera to a smartphone, these finished still and moving images can be posted online straight away. This isn’t exciting just for YouTubers, but also for anyone who wants to share videos more easily with their friends.

‘One of the most important new features of the S9 is the open gate MP4-Lite option, because this allows users to record small video files from the whole sensor area. This means content only needs to be shot once, as it can be cropped multiple ways and in different orientations to suit the platforms to which the clips are posted. The MP4 Lite format keeps the files really small so they are very quick and easy to send to a phone for editing and posting on the go. It frees videographers from the computer and allows everything to be done on portable devices. It also means that anyone can put a professional-looking video together without having to learn how to use editing and grading software. This is a completely new feature that hasn’t been seen in this space before.

‘There are some things we’ve left out of the Lumix S9, such as an EVF, a hotshoe, a mechanical shutter and a fan, as these are things we don’t expect our target audience to need or want. Not including them has allowed us to keep the camera small and light, a bit cheaper and also more power efficient – the S9 will give you about 100 more shots per charge than the S5ll. We’re not suggesting no one needs a viewfinder or a hotshoe, but we have plenty of other models that offer these features for those who need them. Users upgrading from a smartphone will only ever have used a rear screen for their video and photos, so will be completely used to it. And they won’t be filming conferences – they’ll be shooting snappy clips for short-form content, which means there’s no need for a fan to keep the camera cool. Upcoming EU regulations on common charging standards and e-waste mean we won’t be able to include a charger in the box, but most people will have a USB charger already. If someone wants the DMW-BTC15 to charge the battery outside the camera they can get one from us or their local retailer.’

‘The lenses we’ve announced are intended as a great fit for the S9, but also will provide small, light options for other S-series cameras. These two, the Lumix S 26mm f/8 and the Lumix S 18-40mm, are designed to keep the whole package compact, and to make it as easy as possible for new users to join the Lumix S system. We don’t expect the Lumix S9 to be paired with premium lenses, so now isn’t the right time to launch big fast-aperture lenses. And the focal lengths we’ve picked aim to fill gaps in the current L-Mount line-up and to offer something different - there’s no point duplicating lenses that already exist from other L-Mount Alliance members. We want to concentrate on the providing the most useful lenses at the moment, rather than lots of specialist glass.

‘We hope the system around the Lumix S9 can open up video making for people with ambitions and creativity but who have no experience in the more technical side of the process. The camera has space for 39 LUTs that they can download from their favourite creators or which they can just make themselves on their phone in Lumix Lab. It makes so much more possible for so many more people.’

 

[Nevyn72]

Also people please remember, Panasonic wants especially NEW buyers, they have to increase the Pool.
This camera is made for:
1). The Asian market like China... There are a lot new buyers to be found.
2). The Instagram/TickTock creator... They want to do it like their 'phone' does, but a lot better and this does.
3). The hipster... Look how cool I am.... And you are when you have this camera ;-)
4). The vacation shooter/filmer... It will work perfectly for them.
5). The L-mount user who already has a camera, but want also something light small and also 2) or 3) and 4) ;-)

6). The C-cam user..... Like me.... But you cannot film longer than 15 minutes (yet?)... Oops perhaps not than, but a missed opportunity.

For the summer vacation they will sell like hotcakes, so the price is fine... After summer I expect the wil drop <1000,-

 

[Oíche]

And as to LUTs … My understanding of video is practically zero, but I can relate to CC’s point about LUTs being the wrong way to go since it sounds exactly like shooting JPEGs with “art filters”. Why do that? It’s not hard to shoot raw and process later - but if you take a JPEG with some “art filter” that tickled your fancy at the time, only to find it looks like something your kids’ would do with crayons once it’s on your PC at home, then you’re screwed. So, I view LUTs as a gimmick. Surely no-one will splash out this sort on money for a limited-feature camera just because it’s got LUTs?

I like and use the jpeg profiles (LUTs same idea), I've yet to get around to uploading others besides the good ones provided and I have the RAWs anyway.

I have been getting into video and now 4k 50ing birds and others especially with 70-300. The LUTs are a fantastic asset, I don't do video processing so that is the purpose of it and especially for the S9 target market beaming straight onto TikTok or Instagram (you are not one of them Paul I know ).

Many photographers also do not do photo processing and just want jpegs SooC so again to upload a LUT filter you want is essential. Personally I will eventually find Ilford (and others) film LUTs I used for years in LR and get them into the S5ii.

The criticism I have of the LUTs is the complication, not the idea, it needs simplified to make it easy, especially for the S9 with a dedicated LUT button.

I'd prefer to buy these professional made LUTs and upload them but seemingly not available, anything that potentially removes post processing needs is a huge asset as I'd prefer not to do it but still have the RAW anyway for making potential wall hanger or once in a lifetime images for prints.

I played with other random user LUTs in LR and many may like this function and you may find a LUT profile you'll cherish so yes it's fantastic... But Chris (petapixel youtuber) said he was rather totally confused with the LUT menu, Gordon Laing showing the S9 LUT implementation and further combining them etc. shows it is just even more complicated than it already was in S9ii, which is why many just bypass it but they got to refine this to make it a successful selling point and enjoyable feature.

 

[pdk42]

but still have the RAW anyway for making potential wall hanger or once in a lifetime images for prints.

Every time I press the shutter I hope it'll be a wall-hangar.

That's why I shoot raw.

 

[Oíche]

‘The new features in the S9 are also aimed directly at both stills and video creators, so it’s a true hybrid camera.

No it isn't, it's neither. That is marketing speak but that is "what he does".

It is a smaller somewhat crippled version of the S5ii but that's why I'm not a marketing manager

At least potentially interested Lumix owners here know the limitations before buying... Video time limits, no EVF, no mech shutter. I'd be more interested in it with AF faster than F8 pancakes which could still happen. Many times you can get around no EVF and electronic shutter is fine for handheld waist level, ground level and tripod landscapes/astro etc.

I used Pentax small DSLR K-70 and 40mm f2.8 pancake for astro landscapes up mountains with it just resting on my bag, rocks or a miniature tripod so there is loads of use cases here for me also.

And for street photography AF is essential, Gordon Laing showed he still needed to use magnification to nail focus with the S9 & 26 f8. I could use MF doing landscapes and others where you have time but for moving subjects and capturing the moment no. Again a MF lens on this S9 with supposed Tiktok target market was just stupid unless they think manual focussing will be the next Tiktok trend.

At least the Pentax K-01 came with a fast AF pancake and that flopped back then but it they were 10 years early with that.

 

[Oíche]

Every time I press the shutter I hope it'll be a wall-hangar. That's why I shoot raw.

All my jpegs are instant Ansel Adams material but I use the RAW as backup

Graham Watson, a famous pro cycling photographer only used jpegs. Look him up, great landscapes with the riders too. Loads of Pentax users only used jpegs also with me knowing those forums for years.

I'm not from this camp and only started jpeg & RAW starting with S5ii as jpegs so good but it's only an experiment to try and avoid LR.

 

[dirk]

Wow, a lot of constructive discussions while I was away...

I didn't see anyone else chime in that they've ordered. Hopefully I won't be all alone; but for sure when the day arrives I'll post pictures and comments.

I can only speak for me, but the price and the uncertainty about a successor of the MFT GX9 holds me back (at the moment)

In Germany we have different prices and different kits. I can buy the S9 alone for 1699.-€ or with the 20-60 for 1999.-€. There is no Kit offer with the 26/8.0 available. The 26/8.0 I have to buy for 239.-€. Obviously I will not do this.

If I see how different the prices are from one country to the other and what is included for free and what not, I get the impression that there is still a lot of air in the price, to be able to run promotions later on for lower prices.

Well, the more reviews I see, the more tempted in get...

So do I. I am not into video really. I would use the S9 not the way how it was intended to be used. I would use it as a travel camera for photos only, similar to my Ricoh GR3/GR3x.

Well, the more reviews I see, the more tempted in get...
I am looking for excuses to justify this purchase at home.

Same problem here. I stretched my photo budget over the last 2 years way too much. I can not print money. So I have to be a lot more restrictive on what I buy and what I just adore to have

Something has to go. Maybe my micro four thirds gear.

In general this is a good attitude to keep the number of gear small and I have the same policy (normally).

But please do not sell your MFT gear. Sell your car or your house or the shoes of your wife. But the micro four thirds gear has to stay. I still hope that we will get a GX9 successor. A GX10 would be significant smaller than a S9 and all the lenses are tiny and already available. It is smarter to keep MFT at least for another 18 months to see what is coming.

In case you did not know yet, we have also a sister forum for MFT. Same software, same usability. You do not need to endure so much suffering in all these dpreview forums anymore

This is the link:

Home - MFT Community

Welcome to the independent MFT Community! We are photo enthusiasts and professionals who share the love for photography & video in general and for the MicroFourThirds (MFT) System in particular. We are a photocommunity for all MFT cameras: Panasonic, Olympus, OM Digital Solutions, Blackmagic...

mftcommunity.com

Now in S9 you can combine LUTs which is just going to be an unnecessary over complicated mess.

Whilst the camera has less buttons the menu is as over complicated as ever, the LUT button just brings you to that spaghetti zone.

It seems to save the youtubers a lot of time. See the video of that lady (Micro Four Nerds) at minute 10:40. She is talking about the huge benefit for her with these LUTs. She is doing the same work in minutes what normally takes her 3 days. She is also a wedding photographer, uses MFT and L-Mount at the same time.

I watched it. I like his humour.

Yeah, this youtuber makes me smile a lot. Obviously sometime he is too much in overdrive, but i see it more as a good contrast and comedy/entertainment. He is not always right, but funny to watch and sometimes he is getting on my nerves. Maybe because I am not a native speaker.

and despite them being wined and dined and heavily sold to for several days, the reviews are all along the lines of “small, some nice features, but limited in capabilities”. Compare that to the S5ii reviews made after the same exercise and the buzz and positivity was on a different level.

The Lumix S5ii was the camera they were waiting for. The dream camera for them. I guess 90% of them are using now the S5ii/S5iiX for their own videos. The Lumix S9 is just a "product". Only few will use it for their own work. Different target group. They are positive on the S9 the same way they would be positive on a Leica Q3 or Sony ZVE1. Not more, not less.

And as to LUTs … My understanding of video is practically zero, but I can relate to CC’s point about LUTs being the wrong way to go since it sounds exactly like shooting JPEGs with “art filters”.

See the video of Micro Four Nerds above.

Please please please make up a list, advising us all of the lies & dishonesty that all the other reviewers are feeding us.

I would not say that the other YT are dishonest. YouTubers are media, like print media was in the 80ies. Also the print media was invited and were flew in for a couple of day to great events on islands etc. The same in the car industry. This is how it works in marketing. You invite the influencers, whether it is print or digital, show them your products, let them test the products and hope that they write something good about it. This is not bad per se.

It would be bad, if they would not write the truth or would hide consciesly bad factors in their reviews. But they don't. So everything is fine.

puuuuhhhhh... I am glad that we have the multi-quote feature here in the forum, which makes it so easy to respond very fast and easy to everything...

 

[Oíche]

For the summer vacation they will sell like hotcakes

I agree and a great post overall, some may think because it isn't what they want it'll be a flop but just look at those Fuji compacts, not what I want whatsoever but they can't make enough of them for demand.

That MF 26mm still a hindrance though, not so much the fixed f8. Unless of course MF is/will also be a hipster thing? I shouldn't discount that idea too quickly and enjoyed it myself especially with the legacy film cameras. It required the whole idea of slowing down and forced considered composition/focussing which is something you bring forward forever in photography.

Do you see how I contradicted myself in the same paragraph above upon being open minded?

 

[dirk]

See the size comparison here:





Source:

Panasonic S9 Size Compared to S5 Mark II, Sony ZV-E1,Leica Q3 and Fujifilm X100VI Cameras

We have published the news of the Panasonic S9 announcement date and S9 Leaked Images before. Now we have size comparisons of the S9 with Sony ZV-E1, Fujifilm X100VI, and S5 Mark II.

cameradecision.com

 

[Oíche]

There is no Kit offer with the 26/8.0 available. The 26/8.0 I have to buy for 239.-€. Obviously I will not do this.

There is in the UK depending on where you buy. One camera shop sells S9 & 26 f.8 for £1598 so you get the lens for £99 when bought with S9 £1499.

26 f.8 alone is £219

 

[dirk]

There is in the UK depending on where you buy. One camera shop sells S9 & 26 f.8 for £1598 so you get the lens for £99 when bought with S9 £1499.

26 f.8 alone is £219

UK is not custom free anymore for Germany. You have to pay customs plus VAT on top of this, if you buy from the UK.

 

[pdk42]

There is in the UK depending on where you buy. One camera shop sells S9 & 26 f.8 for £1598 so you get the lens for £99 when bought with S9 £1499.

26 f.8 alone is £219

Even £99 is too much for this lens!

 

[pdk42]

UK is not custom free anymore for Germany. You have to pay customs plus VAT on top of this, if you buy from the UK.

True, but you can get the seller to remove VAT, so the purchase price will be -20%.

 

[dirk]

Also people please remember, Panasonic wants especially NEW buyers, they have to increase the Pool.
This camera is made for:
1). The Asian market like China... There are a lot new buyers to be found.
2). The Instagram/TickTock creator... They want to do it like their 'phone' does, but a lot better and this does.
3). The hipster... Look how cool I am.... And you are when you have this camera ;-)
4). The vacation shooter/filmer... It will work perfectly for them.
5). The L-mount user who already has a camera, but want also something light small and also 2) or 3) and 4) ;-)

6). The C-cam user..... Like me.... But you cannot film longer than 15 minutes (yet?)... Oops perhaps not than, but a missed opportunity.

For the summer vacation they will sell like hotcakes, so the price is fine... After summer I expect the wil drop <1000,-

I think this sums it up well. Although I doubt that the price will fall that fast that low. But that depends also on other factors like whether there will be a S7 or a GX10 and what the competition will offer at which price, incl. Sigma

 

[Oíche]

It seems to save the youtubers a lot of time. See the video of that lady (Micro Four Nerds) at minute 10:40. She is talking about the huge benefit for her with these LUTs. She is doing the same work in minutes what normally takes a´her 3 days. She is also a wedding photographer, uses MFT and L-Mount at the same time

Dirk you picked me up wrong, I'm all for LUTs, see my response to Paul about this topic above.