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News Lumix S9 - new camera rumor roundup
- Thread starter Pete_W
- Start date
Exactly, and the F/8 focal length for indoor video doesn't seem very ideal. The base ISO 4000 is very good, but anyway.
If this pancake rumor is true, and I hope it is not, Lumix will have to make a huge effort to convince "content creators" (and L-Mount users) that this pancake is a good gear investment. Maybe this is the reason why Lumix gathered this week the whole bunch of youtures in Osaka for the Lumix Global Summit 2024.
For the moment, and waiting for Lumix to convince me, I am not paying more than 50€ for a MANUAL f/8 body-cap lens. Actually they should give us the lens for free as a present for our loyalty to Lumix...
and and an apology for the jokes that Sony, Canon, Nikon or Fuji users are going to make about us (L-Mount users) if they see us with that "thing" placed in front of the camera 
(Nikon has a AF 26 f/2.8 pancake lens and Canon another AF 28 F/2.8 too).
Markuswelder
Well-Known Member
I would bet my house it won't be manual focus.
So for tonight, the Chief Marketing Officer of Panasonic (tongue firmly in cheek) Andrea from the Rumour site has announced that we will get several new S9 images and some extra lens infos. Hopefully those images are of all sides so the capabilities and ergonomics of the camera become more clear.
Nevyn72
LMF-Patron Gold
oooo are you sure you would bet your house? It looks really like a F8 Manual focus lens... I understand you get it for free with the cam.
Its for people who don't have that much to spend, China & Generation Next. They first buy the camera, and when they have money again the can buy a real lens... I don't think they will sell the lens without a camera.
Might also be a 'almost no manual focus'. Set it at 2.9 meters and almost everything is in focus... If there is no motion blur ofcourse... Should be terrible in low light.
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Nomad Nate
Active Member
Lol yeah looking at the photo that's definitely more a pancake than a bottlecap.
At least the sigma 28-45 f1.8 sounds interesting.
Markuswelder
Well-Known Member
Looks like a 35mm format version of the excellent little m4/3 14mm f2.5 to me. Could be wrong though.
f8 is a sad joke
Pete_W
LMF-Patron
The more details we see from the L-rumor site the more I think that this camera is targeted at a very specific market. And not targeted at existing or veteran camera users. Panasonic would have done their market research before committing R&D to this camera so I expect they know what they're doing.
It may be that the camera will only be available with this little pancake lens but the overall price may be quite low making it a very accessible purchase. The Sony ZV-1 is a 12MP FF vlog camera that B&H currently sells for about $1,900 body only. If Panasonic come into the market with this 24MP FF camera with a free pancake lens at something like $1,300 they will make a big splash. Add the rumored new compact zoom and it might still cost less than the ZV-1 body-only.
Most of the camera gear reviewers and camera gear forum members panned the G100 when it was released yet Panasonic has said that it sells well and they even gave it a mild update not so long ago, so they continue to manufacture and sell them.
Travis Butler
Well-Known Member
If it's an actual body cap lens, like the Olympus I mentioned earlier... I can actually kinda see it, the more I think about it. At least more than the lack of a viewfinder.
A true body cap might make something the rumored size of the S9 truly pocketable - not just 'small enough to cram into a jacket pocket', but flat enough to go into a large shirt/pants pocket. Carry-everywhere without extra baggage is something I can see appealing to a casual videographer.
f/8 at 28mm should give a pretty wide hyperfocal distance, which again I can see appealing to a casual street shooter - set it to hyperfocal and everything beyond short range is reasonably sharp, and there's no focus breathing from C-AF.
Now, that depends on the optical quality being good. The Oly was sharp in the center but very soft as you moved away from it.
Nomad Nate
Active Member
Interesting that these two lenses seemed to have jumped the roadmap (maybe in order to keep the s9 secret?). Maybe we'll get some new roadmap updates on Monday
Markuswelder
Well-Known Member
And they still do. The forum that won't be mentioned, even has threads started, by person's that have never owned or used the G100, just to bag the sh!t out of it. Yet Sean Robinson? from Panasonic, says it sells ridiculously well. The misery guts's from same forum then pipe up and say he's just a liar. Absolutely disgraceful behavior. Tribalism and fanboyism at its absolute worst. Hopefully the rumored new 35mm format camera doesn't suffer the same bias and outright vitriol directed towards it.
Pete_W
LMF-Patron
I suspect that the new Panasonic camera will be derided by the DPR editors/reviewers because it's not a CaNikSonFuji camera and doesn't meet their standards for stills photography. "OMG it can't do BIF at a gazillion frames per second!" Or "You will have to carry a spare battery, it's the end of the world".
Panasonic seems to have flown a number of reviewers over to Osaka for the launch (hi @Richard Wong) so there will at least be some fair and reasonable alternative reviews.
pdk42
Moderator
But here's the problematic question to pose ...
- In what way is a compact FF camera (sans EVF) with an f8 28mm lens really any better than an m43 camera with a 14mm f2.5 lens? (f4.5 FF equiv for DOF)?
... because that latter camera is a package that's been on the market for years and there are some excellent cameras in that sector, including ones made by Panasonic (e.g. GX9, GX8, or from Olympus anything in the Pen range; plus the little Lumix 14mm f2.5). I'm totally flummoxed by what Panasonic are doing. The S series (FF) was always meant to be the high IQ, "grown up" camera
- In what way is a compact FF camera (sans EVF) with an f8 28mm lens really any better than an m43 camera with a 14mm f2.5 lens? (f4.5 FF equiv for DOF)?
... because that latter camera is a package that's been on the market for years and there are some excellent cameras in that sector, including ones made by Panasonic (e.g. GX9, GX8, or from Olympus anything in the Pen range; plus the little Lumix 14mm f2.5). I'm totally flummoxed by what Panasonic are doing. The S series (FF) was always meant to be the high IQ, "grown up" camera
...but this lens is not a "serious" lens... they have simply made it to cover the sensor hole and prevent dust from entering...
They are also going to give it away FOR FREE with the S9, because they are not going to release an entry-level-cheap-tiktokers-interchangeable-
lens-camera without a lens.
Now I am very curious about the other "more serious" 18-40mm pancake, although I fear the worst in terms of apertures...
However, I do think there is a demand for 28mm and 40mm f/2.8 pancake lenses.
They are also going to give it away FOR FREE with the S9, because they are not going to release an entry-level-cheap-tiktokers-interchangeable-
lens-camera without a lens.
Now I am very curious about the other "more serious" 18-40mm pancake, although I fear the worst in terms of apertures...
However, I do think there is a demand for 28mm and 40mm f/2.8 pancake lenses.
Pete_W
LMF-Patron
This is just my view - based on the rumors, it appears that this new camera is aimed at the video 'creator' segment to compete with the likes of the Sony ZV line. So it seems to be primarily a camera for video and not intended to be a replacement for a compact stills camera like the Olympus PEN line or a compact hybrid camera like the Panasonic GX line.
The new pancake lens (which appears to be 26mm, not 28mm) is intriguing. I am guessing it's simply the kit lens and won't be available on its own, and will make the camera ready to go out of the box for a reasonable price. Compared with the Sony ZV-1 which currently sells for USD $1,900 body-only at B&H and would be well over $2K when a lens is added. Panasonic will be well under that price with the kit lens so those who buy one should still be able to buy another lens with AF at a reasonable price.
So I don't think this camera is aimed at being an alternative and compact stills camera. It appears it is being aimed an entirely different market segment.
Markuswelder
Well-Known Member
It's not. Plain & simple as that. Other than dynamic range. Rolling shutter may be worse too. But, it's not a fixed lens, it's an L mount interchangeable lens body, & there are other unreleased lenses yet to be seen.
I am not sure whether the goal is to make something better than MFT. You will have more dynamic range and better noise if you use the same ISO. But I do not think that this is the goal.
I think that Panasonic wants to offer more choice, test new niches for L-Mount. If this sells well, we might see more in the same direction parallel to the traditional bodies.
My guess is that the same camera with VF would be probably too much competition either to Leica M, Leica Q3 or Lumix MFT ir all together.
We do not know Panasonic plans for MFT yet. I know that the GX80 was the best selling MFT model in MFT in Germany. The Lumix G9ii is huge. This would allow a better positioning of a GX10 for example.