What’s on the Horizon for LUMIX?

[Nevyn72]

I'm not either, the mini is the only thing Apple I've ever bought. It is silent and sips electricity so it was a relevation after spending years trying to build quiet PCs which I grew to hate after years.

Beefy electricity bills too if that is a factor. I've xbox SX and it uses about 200W, it's good for the performance but I couldn't be using it 12 hours a day, not that I would anyway.

My friend moved to Brittany and pays £0.04/kWh or something. His bill is around £3/day as he has a modern house with a heatpump so no other fuel bills.

I think you pay more in Holland and I pay £0.38/kWh but this place is scandellous... Hence you see why it is a factor for me

We pay about 90 euros a month for gas and electricity combined (2 person household), but I have to say we do have 12 solar panels and the house is highly isolated.
Laws in the Netherlands might change in the future, so i cannot say it stays this way but right now i'm not worried about the electricity costs.

Bit more information:
In the Netherlands, most people currently pay their energy costs on an annual basis (though we pay monthly installments). This means that the surplus energy we generate in the summer can be used for free in the winter. As a result, my wife's and my house annual electricity costs are approximately zero (Actually it was negative, we got money back).

This may change in the future, but then there could then be times when we can use a lot of electricity at a low cost or for free (we might even get money for using it), if there’s plenty of sunshine or strong winds, while it might be more expensive at other times. However, on an annual basis, the difference likely won’t be significant. Especially if you would use electric heating instead of using gas. Of Course this is what the government is trying to archive.

I know this is not for everybody in the Netherlands the case: Ours house has solar panels and is very good Isolated (Rated A by European standards). But if you have an old house and no solar panels you can have a bill three our four times as high.

 

[pdk42]

Sean said in that interview regarding the S9 that the design goal was to offer a camera that is very different to the already planned (or announced?) S5ii.

My interpretation of that is that a S9 with EVF would have been too much of an "alternative/competition" to the S5ii. I think now that the S9 and S5ii are established and sales of both were good, they can risk to offer in 2025 something like a S9 with EVF and a S1R and S1H replacement. Other factors might also play a role, but I guess this was one of them.

But you know, Sony. They have both S5ii-sized cameras (A7 range) and S9-sized cameras (A7CR ranges) - all with EVFs. As someone said earlier, better to cannibalise your own camera than let someone else do it. Seems to me there is room for both in a mature system.

 

[Oíche]

But you know, Sony. They have both S5ii-sized cameras (A7 range) and S9-sized cameras (A7CR ranges) - all with EVFs. As someone said earlier, better to cannibalise your own camera than let someone else do it. Seems to me there is room for both in a mature system.

Maybe this is why? Or not?

 

[dirk]

As someone said earlier, better to cannibalise your own camera than let someone else do it.

I agree. But maybe Panasonic did not want to do that at the early stage of the S5ii. Sony did the same by the way.

The Sony A7c was neither the first camera Sony launched after they got an advanced AF. It took Sony years before the A7c was launched and many other A7 SLR-body-style cameras were launched earlier. So, even Sony waited although other RF style cameras of other brands (i.e. Lumix GX85/GX9 etc.) existed beforehand

Seems to me there is room for both in a mature system.

I agree. But we have to be patient. Market share of Lumix is a lot smaller than of Sony.

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

With a lens roadmap that's updated vary rarely despite missing a whole load of lenses, I'm not expecting anything exciting at all from Panasonic.

All the exciting stuff comes from Sigma and third-party lens makers TBH.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

Let's see, I'm probably the number 1 Lumix fanboy in Austria and part of Spain... but, for example, that Lumix took 6 years or more to implement PDAF when it was a popular cry among its customers... I don't know really what to think. Finally they did it and now they can say that "Lumix listens to its customers" years later.

By the way, Sean says in the interview that the S9 was planned years ago, when everyone was asking for a Lumix rangefider style camera... Then, why didn't they put an EVF on it? They would had gained many more photographer clients. Furthermore, the direct competing cameras already had it long before: Sony A7C, A7CII and A7CR. Not to mention Fuji.

Just two days ago an article came out in Dpreview about "Why camera makers don't seem to care about photographers, and why you shouldn't worry about that": https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/66...out-photographers-and-why-you-shouldn-t-worry

The PDAF observation is legit. Clearly there was somebody in the company who thought DfD could keep up with PDAF, and they believed it for too long. And that hurt sales.

As for the S9, perhaps it will historically be viewed in a similar way - a unique take on things that didn't work out. We have to wait and see. But in this case the S9 is (apparently) catering to a group that actually wants the things that make the S9 different from a regular camera. Fuji doing something similar seems to reinforce that it was a good decision, or at least that there is some kind of a market there. I certainly respect the company for trying to forge it's own path rather than just doing the same thing everyone else does, but, again, it's unclear how it will turn out.

 

[pdk42]

The PDAF observation is legit. Clearly there was somebody in the company who thought DfD could keep up with PDAF, and they believed it for too long. And that hurt sales.

Bizarrely, for a company who position themselves as the top video-centric hybrid camera brand, it seems that DfD was at its worst for video and acceptable for most photography users (except perhaps BIF).

But I think you’re right in saying that someone (probably a high up engineering chief) thought they could get DfD to work. And it almost did! There are some potential downsides to PDAF of course, so it wasn’t a completely crazy idea.

As for the S9, perhaps it will historically be viewed in a similar way - a unique take on things that didn't work out. We have to wait and see. But in this case the S9 is (apparently) catering to a group that actually wants the things that make the S9 different from a regular camera. Fuji doing something similar seems to reinforce that it was a good decision, or at least that there is some kind of a market there. I certainly respect the company for trying to forge it's own path rather than just doing the same thing everyone else does, but, again, it's unclear how it will turn out.

I hope the S9 does well. I equally hope they can deliver future cameras that suit me. And that means a camera with an EVF and a mechanical shutter.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

I hope the S9 does well. I equally hope they can deliver future cameras that suit me. And that means a camera with an EVF and a mechanical shutter.

You and me both. I would have considered the S9 for astro, but without a mech shutter I'm too limited on shutter speeds - need longer than 64 seconds or whatever the limit is for electronic shutter.

They could literally release an S1RII with the existing S1R body, but with only two enhancements - the new focus system and an updated sensor - and I would buy it. Of course I know that they need to do more than that, but that's all I really want.

 

[The Rigger]

All the exciting stuff comes from Sigma and third-party lens makers TBH.

THIS!!

 

[Nevyn72]

Bizarrely, for a company who position themselves as the top video-centric hybrid camera brand, it seems that DfD was at its worst for video and acceptable for most photography users (except perhaps BIF).

Depends on the customer. There are still a lot of people (not me) who say the S5 had the best video quality of almost ALL the camera's (Brand nonspecific).
And some videographers only use manual focus so for them the DfD was not a problem. It's the spot where the Blackmagic camera's still are.
The BMD Pyxis (L-mount) is a camera raved about the quality and features, but only has (almost) no autofocus.
(You do have a button for focus, but you can hardly call that autofocus).

 

[xaviergut]

They could literally release an S1RII with the existing S1R body, but with only two enhancements - the new focus system and an updated sensor - and I would buy it. Of course I know that they need to do more than that, but that's all I really want.

I would buy it too. But, if they don't practice the beautiful statement "we listen to our customers", there are other alternatives out there for photography, like the Sony A7RV or the Sony A7CR in an S9 size body. Nikon has the Z8 as an interesting camera too. I don't know much about Canon, but they have sure also good cameras for photography.

By the way, we are waiting months for a small/pancake 28mm f2 or a 40mm f2... The 18-40mm is surely a very good lens, but the aperture f6.3 at 40mm doesn't sound very fast.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

I would buy it too. But, if they don't practice the beautiful statement "we listen to our customers", there are other alternatives out there for photography, like the Sony A7RV or the Sony A7CR in an S9 size body. Nikon has the Z8 as an interesting camera too.

Very true. My L-mount lens investment would make it hard to walk away, though, so hopefully it doesn't come to that. I like the Nikon bodies, but if I did move I'd probably go Sony since they allow Sigma & Tamron lenses.

 

[Oíche]

Not sure if Viltrox can add to L-mount but YTber Matt Granger gives a raving review of the 135 f1.8, he is quite unbiased for such, no shill, I've no interest in his female portrait photography as you need to be great at that IMO but it shows how far Chinese lenses have come when he says and shows some great results for 35% of cost against G master equivalent.

It's not on L-mount and I doubt anyone here would want a 135 f1.8 hence no l-mount but it shows progress in Chinese lenses snd admittedly I have bias.

135 f1.8 is a very niche lens and as Matt Granger said most people he knew ended up selling them.

Leica portrait photographers... Surely not

 

[pdk42]

I would buy it too. But, if they don't practice the beautiful statement "we listen to our customers", there are other alternatives out there for photography, like the Sony A7RV or the Sony A7CR in an S9 size body. Nikon has the Z8 as an interesting camera too. I don't know much about Canon, but they have sure also good cameras for photography.

By the way, we are waiting months for a small/pancake 28mm f2 or a 40mm f2... The 18-40mm is surely a very good lens, but the aperture f6.3 at 40mm doesn't sound very fast.

I’m really not looking for a system switch, but I did a comparison of the A7CR plus 16-35 PZ and Tamron 28-200 versus the S5 plus 14-28 and 24-105. It’s notably smaller and 350g lighter, and offers 200mm reach vs 105. I could also drop my S1R as well. It’s very tempting. But, no Live Composite, and the EVF experience isn’t as good.

Very true. My L-mount lens investment would make it hard to walk away, though, so hopefully it doesn't come to that. I like the Nikon bodies, but if I did move I'd probably go Sony since they allow Sigma & Tamron lenses.

Nikon Z is nice, but I did run a Z7 system for a while a few years ago. I found the lack of zebras for stills a major limitation for how I use a camera (although I’m told there is a workaround that I was unaware of at the time). I also found that the camera felt a bit old fashioned in its firmware and operation compared to Olympus, which I was using at the time. Panasonic cameras are just as modern feeling as Olympus, and in some ways better.

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

Not sure if Viltrox can add to L-mount but YTber Matt Granger gives a raving review of the 135 f1.8, he is quite unbiased for such, no shill, I've no interest in his female portrait photography as you need to be great at that IMO but it shows how far Chinese lenses have come when he says and shows some great results for 35% of cost against G master equivalent.

It's not on L-mount and I doubt anyone here would want a 135 f1.8 hence no l-mount but it shows progress in Chinese lenses snd admittedly I have bias.

135 f1.8 is a very niche lens and as Matt Granger said most people he knew ended up selling them.

Leica portrait photographers... Surely not

I would like a 135mm as I prefer primes to zooms and 90mm is my longest native lens. f/1.8 would be nice but I'd settle even for f/2.8 (or maybe even f/3.5) and have a nice compact tele option that was suitable for travel. At a reasonable cost, of course.

I’m really not looking for a system switch, but I did a comparison of the A7CR plus 16-35 PZ and Tamron 28-200 versus the S5 plus 14-28 and 24-105. It’s notably smaller and 350g lighter, and offers 200mm reach vs 105. I could also drop my S1R as well. It’s very tempting. But, no Live Composite, and the EVF experience isn’t as good.

That's not really an even comparison - I'm sure Sony do a 24-105/4 and Panasonic make a 28-200, so you could do very like-for-like comparisons. Don't forget with Sony you also get worse ergonomics and no in-camera RAW processing, not to mention higher camera prices.

 

[Progresjon]

I’m really not looking for a system switch, but I did a comparison of the A7CR plus 16-35 PZ and Tamron 28-200 versus the S5 plus 14-28 and 24-105. It’s notably smaller and 350g lighter, and offers 200mm reach vs 105. I could also drop my S1R as well. It’s very tempting. But, no Live Composite, and the EVF experience isn’t as good.

Live composite is golden. Slowly learning that not having it is a dealbreaker for me too.

 

[Oíche]

I would like a 135mm as I prefer primes to zooms and 90mm is my longest native lens. f/1.8 would be nice but I'd settle even for f/2.8 (or maybe even f/3.5) and have a nice compact tele option that was suitable for travel. At a reasonable cost, of course.

Such 135s were a thing back in the film days often right up to the beginning of DSLR. I actually still have 3x f3.5 lenses, they are or were so cheap on Ebay £15 or something
I even tried the Pentax-M one with an extension tube for video on Pentax DSLR. I have the CZ Jena Electric too, maybe worth a try sometime on S5ii.

As you say they are compact and could nowadays be made very light. No need for f1.8, as Matt Granger said even the portrait photographers ended up selling them (probably just stuck to the usual 85mm). I don't think there is much demand for them, even slower aperture lenses when you have the 28-200 zoom.

 

[pdk42]

That's not really an even comparison - I'm sure Sony do a 24-105/4 and Panasonic make a 28-200, so you could do very like-for-like comparisons. Don't forget with Sony you also get worse ergonomics and no in-camera RAW processing, not to mention higher camera prices.

Sorry, I ought to have prefaced my post by saying that I want a decent 28-200 The Panasonic 28-200 is not a good performer. The Tamron 28-200 is really rather good.

 

[Oíche]

Sorry, I ought to have prefaced my post by saying that I want a decent 28-200 The Panasonic 28-200 is not a good performer. The Tamron 28-200 is really rather good.

I don't know why you still use Lumix as you frequently express your dissatisfaction for the gear.

You are telling us frequently that Sony more suits your needs so why not switch? As a moderator I find it strange, I'm not suggesting you should be a Pentaxforums type never allowed to critique or treat Lumix as a demi-God but you seem unhappy with it and kind of trying to convince yourself to switch through many of your posts. Just go for it, life is too short, it's only equipment and no loyalty nonsense.

Live composite, besides an aurora photograph how many times have you used it? I've yet to even try ityself.

Many will love the smallest and lightest Lumix 28-200 who have no interest in forums and don't care about pixel peeping, I know loads of peoole from bicycle race photography who had better gear than I did but weren't into photography like I was, my neighbour has never used RAW yet does 5000 pics a week... This 28-200 appeals to a greater number of these than tech peepers hence why they made it.

User 'winnie' on dpreview has done fantastic macro with it which the Tamron can't do. It's horses for courses but yeah the Tamron is a travel type lens also.

The Lumix also has the advantage of O.I.S so it doesn't deserve this bashing and more advantageous over the Sony/Tamron alternative along with the better Lumix IS, especially for the users it is intended for... photo and video travel use.

 

[pdk42]

I don't know why you still use Lumix as you frequently express your dissatisfaction for the gear.

You are telling us frequently that Sony more suits your needs so why not switch? As a moderator I find it strange, I'm not suggesting you should be a Pentaxforums type never allowed to critique or treat Lumix as a demi-God but you seem unhappy with it and kind of trying to convince yourself to switch through many of your posts. Just go for it, life is too short, it's only equipment and no loyalty nonsense.

Live composite, besides an aurora photograph how many times have you used it? I've yet to even try ityself.

Many will love the smallest and lightest Lumix 28-200 who have no interest in forums and don't care about pixel peeping, I know loads of peoole from bicycle race photography who had better gear than I did but weren't into photography like I was, my neighbour has never used RAW yet does 5000 pics a week... This 28-200 appeals to a greater number of these than tech peepers hence why they made it.

User 'winnie' on dpreview has done fantastic macro with it which the Tamron can't do. It's horses for courses but yeah the Tamron is a travel type lens also.

The Lumix also has the advantage of O.I.S so it doesn't deserve this bashing and more advantageous over the Sony/Tamron alternative along with the better Lumix IS, especially for the users it is intended for... photo and video travel use.

You know, I really don't get this post of yours at all. This is a photo forum, a place to discuss gear. Am I not allowed to talk about that?

And as to my intentions of system switching, the post before I posted my comments about the 28-200, I said this:

I’m really not looking for a system switch ...

We can have a separate discussion about the 28-200 if you like, but I think an objective comparison would show that the Lumix has weaker optical performance than the Tamron lens, esp at the long end. It may have other benefits like size, weight, OIS etc, but I think it's quite clear that optically the Tamron is the better lens. I really wish it were not the case. I waited for the 28-200 to be launched and had every intention of buying one. The limited max aperture doesn't bother me, so it should have been the perfect lens. But it isn't - because it's too optically compromised.