News Lumix S5D

[Markuswelder]

I think the power plugin is not the problem for the user. The problem is the charging station. That is not standardized and different even within the same brand.

Without it, you are forced to charge your battery in the camera. If something happens, good luck to convince the camera brand to replace your camera for free.

But isn't that what the new Euro regulations are trying to address? The number of power supplies and proprietary cables being produced? I'm good with no power supply, or cable. Just give me the base, with a USB C socket to suit the battery, and I'm happy. Surely that satisfies the new regulations?

 

[CharlesH]

But isn't that what the new Euro regulations are trying to address? The number of power supplies and proprietary cables being produced? I'm good with no power supply, or cable. Just give me the base, with a USB C socket to suit the battery, and I'm happy. Surely that satisfies the new regulations?

For my recent trip to Hawaii I picked up the Lumix compatible battery that @Oiche introduced that has the USB-C socket directly on the battery. I also picked up one of these for my Sony camera. These worked out REALLY well. So I didn't need to take a charger, and I did not need to plug the USB-C power into the camera. Somehow it feels better taking out the battery and charging it directly with USB-C power. (Of course you can charge it in the camera, or with a charger, so it is completely flexible.).

 

[Markuswelder]

For my recent trip to Hawaii I picked up the Lumix compatible battery that @Oiche introduced that has the USB-C socket directly on the battery.

I have never heard of, or seen such a thing. I'd rather just stick with an original Panasonic battery -they do know a little bit about making batteries, and an adapter base that I can just plug any old power supply into. Is that really that hard to make available?

 

[dirk]

Just give me the base, with a USB C socket to suit the battery, and I'm happy. Surely that satisfies the new regulations?

The text of this regulation is written (like every legal text) very vague.

The EU wants to reduce plastic garbage, which is a good thing. Therefore they force every company which is selling electronic products to offer these from 2025 on only with a USBC connection.

This is a very good idea, because this stops the idiotic prioritary power plugins. See what Apple did for decades and other brands too. If you buy a Walki Talki and this needs again a special power connection, which is not compatible with anything else in the world, you produce garbage for the future by default.

But this does not mean that the brands are not allowed to put a USBC charger or the charging base into the camera package.

With the power plugin there are different opinions out there. In case that the EU wants to avoid this too, then IMHO the brand should offer something cheap in their webshop.

Regarding the base this is different. I have not seen yet a legal text that forbids battery charging base in the camera package.

As long as every producer offers different batteries, which are neither compatible with other brands nor compatible with other models of the same brand, they are IMHO obliged to pack this individual base to the camera for free. Of course with an USBC connection.

In my view more and more brands try to use legal requirements for USBC compatible power plugins as an excuse not to deliver the base, which in reality has nothing to do with power plugins. Or show me the legal text which explicitely mentions the battery charging base.

If we would follow the arguments of the industry, they should offer these individual battery charging bases for free or i.e. 10€ on their webshop. Otherwise they give us the impression to become greedy. Camera prices increased dramatically over the last 6 years. There is no reason to ask 50, 100, 200€ for a charging base, which should be for free included already with the camera at that price level and which costs around 10€ in the production.

Again Leica leads this with their price of the Leica Q3 43 (6.750€) without a charging base. You can buy it from them for 150€ and in the US for 200$.

 

[dirk]

Bear in mind that a major income stream of Apple are accessories like cables, chargers etc. Apple stripped everything what was includes for free years ago one after the other out of the packages and sells it seperately for crazy prices.

The reason for Apple to have propriatory connections was not to give the user an advantage. The reason was to lock them into the Apple Eco system, take even more money of them and earn a fortune for licencing these connection protocols.

The EU regulation regarding a standardized USBC compatibility is a very important first step for more freedom of the end user.

 

[Markuswelder]

The EU wants to reduce plastic garbage, which is a good thing.

Absolutely. No argument there, 100% agreeance.

Therefore they force every company which is selling electronic products to offer these from 2025 on only with a USBC connection.

This is a very good idea, because this stops the idiotic prioritary power plugins. See what Apple did for decades and other brands too. If you buy a Walki Talki and this needs again a special power connection, which is not compatible with anything else in the world, you produce garbage for the future by default.

Yeah, but surprisingly, their new phones will accept any 20 or 30W USB C power supply. As far as I can tell. Which is a pretty decent turnaround in my book.

With the power plugin there are different opinions out there. In case that the EU wants to avoid this too, then IMHO the brand should offer something cheap in their webshop.

Regarding the base this is different. I have not seen yet a legal text that forbids battery charging base in the camera package.

As long as every producer offers different batteries, which are neither compatible with other brands nor compatible with other models of the same brand, they are IMHO obliged to pack this individual base to the camera for free. Of course with an USBC connection.

For sure. I'm happy to pay a fair price for one, even if it's not included in the box. $30 or $40 would surely cover it I'd imagine.

If we would follow the arguments of the industry, they should offer these individual battery charging bases for free or i.e. 10€ on their webshop. Otherwise they give us the impression to become greedy. Camera prices increased dramatically over the last 6 years. There is no reason to ask 50, 100, 200€ for a charging base, which should be for free included already with the camera at that price level and which costs around 10€ in the production.

No argument there, from me.

And on a slightly different note, this is where electric cars have screwed up, big time. On a massive scale. What should have happened, is that there should have been a standard, modular battery spec legislated. Perhaps two sizes -one for smaller cars, one for larger. Then all that would be required, is some sort of automated battery swap mechanism, along the lines of a car wash, or production line. Drive in one end, 5 or 10 minutes later you drive out with a freshly charged battery This would bypass all the fast charging requirements, wasted space for dedicated charging car parks etc etc. They could charge the batteries in off peak times, without requiring massive infrastructure changes. Why our governments haven't gone done this route is beyond me. Instead, it's every man for himself, dog eat dog, each with their own, stupid proprietary charge stations, plugs, cables etc etc etc. We just don't learn.

 

[dirk]

I agree.

It is always the same. The industry tries to maximize their profits, no matter whether this is bad for the industry itself.

Look at the VHS vs. Betamax vs. Grundig 2000 battle endet decades ago for Homerecording devices. VHS was not the best technology, but they were the winner nevertheless.

 

[dirk]

Here is an example. I just ordered a double battery charger at Aliexpress for around 24€. The dealer and the producer still make money at this price level.



And Leica wants to tell us, that a single battery charger needs to cost 150€?

This is greedy.

 

[Oíche]

And Leica wants to tell us, that a single battery charger needs to cost 150€?

This is greedy.

It's criminal, a USB battery charger is basically a tiny mega mass produced chip and a few diodes costing maybe £0.50p.

It's their fault for allowing themselves to be robbed and some even daft enough to boast about it.

We have a saying here "At least Dirk Turpin wore a mask"

 

[dirk]

It's criminal, a USB battery charger is basically a tiny mega mass produced chip and a few diodes costing maybe £0.50p.

This one for the Lumix S5/S5ii/S5D costs 100€

 

[pdk42]

This one for the Lumix S5/S5ii/S5D costs 100€

View attachment 7681

Crazy. But it's the same in all industries. If you tried to build a car from parts bought from the spare parts department, it would probably cost you €1m !

 

[dirk]

Crazy. But it's the same in all industries. If you tried to build a car from parts bought from the spare parts department, it would probably cost you €1m !

yes and if you know that a brand new Lumix S5 will costs you today around 800€ (and Panasonic makes also profit on that one) and compare this with these 100€ of this S5 batterie charger only, it looks even more insane.

 

[Oíche]

This one for the Lumix S5/S5ii/S5D costs 100€

View attachment 7681

I know they belong in for this also, but who paid that needs locked up too

With USB charging you can build them into the battery... It requires little space!

 

[dirk]

With USB charging you can build them into the battery... It requires little space!

Yes, maybe this is the future. But I would love to see in the future a regulation for different battery sizes, like we do have already with normal batteries. That would make our life much more easy, would reduce the costs and availability dramatically and would be very good for the environment.

We do not have enough ressources on planet earth to produce for the next 10 years for everything batteries, once everyone want to drive an electrical car.

 

[CharlesH]

The reason for Apple to have propriatory connections was not to give the user an advantage. The reason was to lock them into the Apple Eco system, take even more money of them and earn a fortune for licencing these connection protocols.

I kind of disagree with this. Apple spent a lot of time and money to get all their devices using the same Lightening connector so they could use the same charging cables. These cables could connect with any charger, so there was not a proliferation of chargers with Apple devices. The devices that moved high speed data used USB-C, and those that did not used Lightening. With the new European regulations Apple has moved everything to USB-C, so they had to go back and duplicate everything they did with Lightening connectors. So it was a large effort with very little benefit - from the user perspective it is just using a different cable.

 

[dirk]

Apple had different connections over the time. Not just lightening.

As soon as you have a non-standard input (standard was always USB) you are forced to buy cables you do not have yet with i.e. a lightening plug.

Apple has the patent for lightening. Everybody has to pay a fee to Apple, if you want to offer a cable with a lightening plug.

I do not see any advantage of lightening over USB for the end user. It is only one thing more they have to buy - in most cases directly from Apple.

 

[Oíche]

Then there are different types of USB-C cables. My phone uses a higher current USB-C cable to handle 90W charging, if I use a regular cable it drops to a fraction, another one will only allow 65W.

That EU directive is somewhat greenwashing and compared to everything else that is environmentally damaging it really isn't going to matter much in a materialistic throw-away society. Meanwhile you can buy any cable you want from corner shops to supermarkets.

What about superceded HDMI and ethernet cables, cables that are supplied too long. What about the constantly being replaced electronic devices or a broadband provider supplying crappy cable routers and you need tongo out and buy another one with 2-3 cables in the box along with an adapter?

I still have bags of various cables, some of them the 240V universal 2 wire type that I didn't need as I already had them from previous devices.

Lastly USB-C sockets is a bit too large and unnecessary for AA/AAA batteries as it takes up physical capacity whereas I have micro-USB versions.

Basically regarding that green directive the EU are full of crap and they have more important issues to waste time on. They done the same with the 1600W vacuum cleaner limit... Pure bureaucratic nonsense!

 

[Oíche]

This one for the Lumix S5/S5ii/S5D costs 100€

View attachment 7681

A bit of moulded plastic, 3 LEDs and a tiny inexpensive circuit board like below €100...
I can buy these BLK22 USB-C batteries for ~ €30

You can buy a new 8/256GB phone for €100 including 18W charging, around 2x the Lumix brick.

 

[CharlesH]

I do not see any advantage of lightening over USB for the end user. It is only one thing more they have to buy - in most cases directly from Apple.

Nothing to get upset about - Apple has conformed with USB-C.