Voigtlander 28/2.0 Ultron Asph. VM Mk2

[dirk]

There is an interesting 28mm fullframe lens from Voigtlander. It is for Leica M-mount, but with an adapter it would be possible to use it with an L-Mount body.

It is manual focus only. Very small and very light. According to different reviews, it has a very good image quality. In some areas as good as the Leica Summicron counterpart.

The newer version came out around 2023, so do not mix this with older reviews of version Mk1.

The lens costs around 850.-€

Here is a video about it:



Did anybody use that lens already on Leica M or adapted on a different camera?

 

[Miker]

There is a very long discussion thread about it here

Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

[news][s]The Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II VM is now in stock:[/s]Type II (Brass painted black): https://shop.cameraquest.com/voigtlander-leica-mo...

www.fredmiranda.com

 

[dirk]

There is a very long discussion thread about it here

Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II Review

[news][s]The Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II VM is now in stock:[/s]Type II (Brass painted black): https://shop.cameraquest.com/voigtlander-leica-mo...

www.fredmiranda.com

Thank you. It seems that this Voightlander is only and excellent lens, if you use it on a Leica M cameras because of their special sensor.

If you look at the first 2-3 pages, you can see that the Voigtlander is significant worse on a Sony camera. That confirms what the video review I linked to in my posting said too. as soon as you use the Voigtlander on a normal MLU, the performance is not at all in the same league as with a Leica M. That is a pitty...

So I keep searching for other alternatives...

 

[Babylonia]

Seems more Voigländer lenses in the "Nokton" optical design formula / group do not perform well, when not using a Leica camera.
(So only suited for Leica itself).
Found comparable "bad" results about 4 months ago, looking for a 35mm wide angle for my Panasonic S1R camera, testing in a camera shop.
Check what I wrote in another community, comparing - Voigtländer 35mm F1.5 Notkon - versus - Sigma 35mm F2 DG DN | Contemporary

---

Hello @dirk on request:

Combining my messages / text.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seems more Voigländer lenses in the "Nokton" optical design formula / group do not perform well, when not using a Leica camera.
(So only suited for Leica itself).

As found < by another user as well> (as long as redirect hold up).
Comparing several M-mount lenses (Zeiss, Leica, Voigtländer) and focall lengths using a Leica M9 camera versus Panasonic S5
Listed Voigtländer lenses: Nokton 35mm f1.2 v1 ---- Nokton 35mm f1.4 - do have issues when combining to the Panasonic S5 camera.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A general known issue, is that not every Leica M-mount lens is suited for using on a “Panasonic” L-mount camera body.
Sony also is not suited for it by the standard (factory) sensor cover glass. (Seems to be even more thick than Panasonic?)
Due to optical design of lenses and limitations related to characteristics of sensor-stack thickness / sensor cover glass,
maximum possible angle of light rays hitting the sensor at borders / corners. Specially when using wide angle lenses.

Using digital Leica M camera’s, the sensor-stack thickness and micro lenses in front of pixels is optimised for it.
But using a “Panasonic” camera body, image quality can rapidly decline to borders / corners by own experience using a Panasonic S1R.

Results can vary by one or the other lens by design and focal lens. So there is not a general rule. (However wide angle more problems).
As there are not that many "Panasonic" camera user reviews, mostly "Sony". The best thing is just try, and do some basic testing.
Make your personal decision afterwards. (As every user do have their own needs and preferences).
As a guidance however in general, what you can find already online by experience for Sony cameras, also hold up for Panasonic cameras.

About four months ago I bought a new 35mm lens, and compared two lenses by test images (within the camera shop itself).
- Voigtländer 35mm F1.5 Notkon - (As for comparison see examples found at YouTube - to Leica Summilux 35mm FLE)
- Sigma 35mm F2 DG DN | Contemporary

I only tried wide open aperture settings closing down to F 2.8 maximum.
As I want to use these primes specially for their fast openings.

So for Voigtländer 1.5 - 2.0 - 2.8
Aperture setting: Sigma 2.0 - 2.8

And tried different focus areas. Focusing in centre, and focusing “mid frame” area. To rule out any field curvature issues.

Unfortunately, the Voigtländer Nokton 35mm f1.5 can “not be used” in combination with a „Panasonic S1R” camera.
And to be expected other Panasonic camera's as well (so comparable "bad" results). Only centre area is acceptable.
Going to mid frame and borders, the image is declining rapidly. Wide open at F1.5 can not be used at all !!
Even some "smearing/doubling" images at border / corners. (Very familiar results for "Nokton" as found by other user).

Even when the Sigma is used wide open F 2.0, and the Voigtländer closed to F 2.8 (so ~two stops down).
The image quality of the Sigma outperform the Voigtländer "by miles" to borders and corners.

So I ended up, buying the Sigma lens. Very pity, as these kind of Voigtländer lenses I like very much.
(And a charm as for build mechanical quality, shape and dimensions and fitting as a combination to the Panasonic camera).

But with some common sense this is to be expected.
Otherwise every lens brand should build much more tiny lenses, than what they do now.

At least the weight of the Voigländer 35mm F1.5 Nokton "brass" version Including the added L-mount to M-mount adapter is not that different, from an L-mount Sigma 35mm / F2.0 DG DN | Contemporary "without adapter".

 

[Miker]

the Leica SL cameras will work with the voigtlander lens with their optimize sensors..

 

[dirk]

the Leica SL cameras will work with the voigtlander lens with their optimize sensors..

Does the Leica SL have the same micro lenses applied as their M models?

 

[dirk]

@Babylonia

Thank you for putting the old postings together. I moved them in your original posting and delete the others.

I really like the Voigtlander lenses. They are really "my style". Small, compact, aperture ring, classic looking. But the good/excellent image quality seems to be only achievable, if you use them with Leica bodies. Either M bodies or SL bodies. Unfortunately the Voigtlander lenses do not perform well on Panasonic or on Sigma bodies.

As far as I understood it, the reason for this is the special way Leica adds to their sensors "microlenses", which make it possible to have very good image quality in the middle and also in the corners. Although the lenses are in reality too small and due to this the light is not hitting the sensor in an optimal angle, the image quality will be still good, thanks to the microlenses.

Camera bodies which do not have these microlenses will show how the light is hitting the sensor by lens-design (without the support of microlenses on the sensor) and the outcome is significant worse.

 

[xaviergut]

Dirk, you know that there is a Voigtlander 28mm f2. 8 for the Nikon F mount:

28 mm / 1:2,8 Color Skopar SLII-S | Voigtländer

www.voigtlaender.de

 

[Babylonia]

Keep in mind though, using that model Voigtländer SL II-S lens suited for Nikon F-mount, the size and weight of an adapter has to be added.
A Nikon F-mount to L-mount adapter is not that small. (I do have several of those adapters).

Extra height of adapter 26.5 mm
Weight of adapter 94 gram

So the combination might be not that interesting than thought.
Total length (height) of the combination nearly is doubled by that.
Length (height) of the lens only = 32.8 mm
-

 

[dirk]

Dirk, you know that there is a Voigtlander 28mm f2. 8 for the Nikon F mount:

28 mm / 1:2,8 Color Skopar SLII-S | Voigtländer

www.voigtlaender.de

Hi Xavier,

the problem is the needed adapter. As Babylonia said, all adapters for L-Mount weight around 100g at least and are big.

I have two lovely Pentax lenses. The 77 and 43 limited. I have an adapter for them too. These lenses are tiny, but due to the adapter, it is not fun anymore to use them on LMount.

You end up with a similar or even bigger size as the Sigma i-series, but without AF, without electronic contacts for the FL and aperture in the Exif etc. That is really a pitty. I really like these lenses.

Only for these two lenses I would be willing to buy one day a cheap FF Pentax DSLR body, in case Pentax/Ricoh would offer in the future a small and light FF DSLR body.

 

[xaviergut]

the problem is the needed adapter. As Babylonia said, all adapters for L-Mount weight around 100g at least and are big.

Yes, yes, I agree with both of you, I use a K&F Concept adapter for my Voigtländer 40mm f2 Ultron and the combo looks like thist on my S1R:

... not exactly a small combo...

this is the reason why, IMHO, it would be good if Panasonic or Sigma made a PANCAKE 40mm and 28mm for the L-Mount

I would buy the 40mm version for sure

 

[Babylonia]

I to have a Voigtländer 40mm f2 Ultron lens. But a previous model with a small rubber focus ring.
(And several other Nikon mount Voigtländer SL lenses.)

In that time (nearly three years ago), I searched for best available adapter options.

• One model adapter "straight" for Nikon F-mount lenses having an own aperture ring.
• One model adapter including the option to set aperture values for later model Nikon "G" lenses.
  These G lenses don't have an own aperture ring. Aperture values have to be set in camera,
  and mechanically are set by the tiny lever behind within the lens mount.

I have both models.

For the last option also the K&F model was part of this evaluation. Having this extra defined O---o ring
However I chose an "AliExpress" model over the K&F model, as the stepping part for setting aperture values by a separate ring
is more defined, by a more wide distance and clickable steps (by about ~1/2 steps) of the aperture ring than the model of K&F.
(However these "clicks" are a bit "wobbly" - not harsh, punchy clicks. But maybe a better choice against "no values" ring at all of K&F ).

AliExpress model - search for:
Peipro NF-L Mount Close Focus Adapter for Nikon F Lens Leica Lumix Sigma L Mount Camera 'S for S1/S1r Fp Sl/Sl2 T

I unscrewed the part of the tripod base, and covered the two remaining screw holes with a piece of matte black tape.
This adapter, by the extra mechanical moving ring parts, and unscrewed tripod base. The weight is more heavy: 141 gram
(Including tripod base even more heavy).

Peipro model:



Versus K&F model:

Fotodiox do have a big list of available adapters for all kind of lenses. (Have included a PDF file at the end of this message).
Other adapter options can be found by vendors e.g. from Novoflex, 7Artisans, and a bunch "no-name" can be found at AliExpress.

When using older manual lenses, here you can find a list of most cameras by their used flange distance to film plane:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Lens_mounts
https://fotodioxpro.com/blogs/news/flange-focal-distance
-

 

[pdk42]

Seems more Voigländer lenses in the "Nokton" optical design formula / group do not perform well, when not using a Leica camera.
(So only suited for Leica itself).
Found comparable "bad" results about 4 months ago, looking for a 35mm wide angle for my Panasonic S1R camera, testing in a camera shop.
Check what I wrote in another community, comparing - Voigtländer 35mm F1.5 Notkon - versus - Sigma 35mm F2 DG DN | Contemporary

---

Hello @dirk on request:

Combining my messages / text.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seems more Voigländer lenses in the "Nokton" optical design formula / group do not perform well, when not using a Leica camera.
(So only suited for Leica itself).

As found < by another user as well> (as long as redirect hold up).
Comparing several M-mount lenses (Zeiss, Leica, Voigtländer) and focall lengths using a Leica M9 camera versus Panasonic S5
Listed Voigtländer lenses: Nokton 35mm f1.2 v1 ---- Nokton 35mm f1.4 - do have issues when combining to the Panasonic S5 camera.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A general known issue, is that not every Leica M-mount lens is suited for using on a “Panasonic” L-mount camera body.
Sony also is not suited for it by the standard (factory) sensor cover glass. (Seems to be even more thick than Panasonic?)
Due to optical design of lenses and limitations related to characteristics of sensor-stack thickness / sensor cover glass,
maximum possible angle of light rays hitting the sensor at borders / corners. Specially when using wide angle lenses.

Using digital Leica M camera’s, the sensor-stack thickness and micro lenses in front of pixels is optimised for it.
But using a “Panasonic” camera body, image quality can rapidly decline to borders / corners by own experience using a Panasonic S1R.

Results can vary by one or the other lens by design and focal lens. So there is not a general rule. (However wide angle more problems).
As there are not that many "Panasonic" camera user reviews, mostly "Sony". The best thing is just try, and do some basic testing.
Make your personal decision afterwards. (As every user do have their own needs and preferences).
As a guidance however in general, what you can find already online by experience for Sony cameras, also hold up for Panasonic cameras.

About four months ago I bought a new 35mm lens, and compared two lenses by test images (within the camera shop itself).
- Voigtländer 35mm F1.5 Notkon - (As for comparison see examples found at YouTube - to Leica Summilux 35mm FLE)
- Sigma 35mm F2 DG DN | Contemporary

I only tried wide open aperture settings closing down to F 2.8 maximum.
As I want to use these primes specially for their fast openings.

So for Voigtländer 1.5 - 2.0 - 2.8
Aperture setting: Sigma 2.0 - 2.8

And tried different focus areas. Focusing in centre, and focusing “mid frame” area. To rule out any field curvature issues.

Unfortunately, the Voigtländer Nokton 35mm f1.5 can “not be used” in combination with a „Panasonic S1R” camera.
And to be expected other Panasonic camera's as well (so comparable "bad" results). Only centre area is acceptable.
Going to mid frame and borders, the image is declining rapidly. Wide open at F1.5 can not be used at all !!
Even some "smearing/doubling" images at border / corners. (Very familiar results for "Nokton" as found by other user).

Even when the Sigma is used wide open F 2.0, and the Voigtländer closed to F 2.8 (so ~two stops down).
The image quality of the Sigma outperform the Voigtländer "by miles" to borders and corners.

So I ended up, buying the Sigma lens. Very pity, as these kind of Voigtländer lenses I like very much.
(And a charm as for build mechanical quality, shape and dimensions and fitting as a combination to the Panasonic camera).

But with some common sense this is to be expected.
Otherwise every lens brand should build much more tiny lenses, than what they do now.

At least the weight of the Voigländer 35mm F1.5 Nokton "brass" version Including the added L-mount to M-mount adapter is not that different, from an L-mount Sigma 35mm / F2.0 DG DN | Contemporary "without adapter".

The Sigma I-series primes are really very nice. I have the 35mm f2 and like it a lot. I also have the Panasonic 50mm f1.8 and it performs very well, but the feel and aesthetics of the Sigma are for sure much nicer (but heavier).

 

[Babylonia]

I also have the Panasonic 50mm f1.8 and it performs very well...

Last year I ordered a Lumix 50mm / F1.8 first.
But found out already within the shop by some test images, this Lumix 50mm copy was faulty / had problems (a real "lemon").
Only "this copy" - as I didn't believe the found errors was normal. Give the advise to shop employees to send this copy back to Panasonic.

So even didn't take it home. Leave it in the shop and ordered the Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG DN | Art.
The Sigma 50mm F2 DG DN | Contemporary was introduced a month later or so.
Otherwise it could be possible that I had chosen that one ??

But no regrets. I am very happy with the choice of this F1.4 lens. A kind of love-hate feeling.
Love the quality of general sharpness already wide open & bokeh.
Nice bokeh, not only in the background blur, but also in the foreground blur.
Older lens designs, when having a nice background blur, mostly it is not nice within the foreground.
(A lens with undercorrected spherical aberration is associated with a smooth background blur and a harsh foreground blur;
the situation is reversed for a lens with overcorrected spherical aberration.).

I do use this prime specially for the fast openings "only". So aperture values between F1.4 and F2.8
(Could even be that I never used it at smaller aperture openings above F2.8 ?)
I love the high mechanical build of the lens, and completeness of functions (e.g. the separate aperture ring).

The “hate” feeling, is the big and bulky size.
Other negative aspects as e.g. CA / LoCa at wide apertures, distortion. (Knew that already before buying).
Most fast lenses do suffer by these errors in more or lesser degree. (Or have to invest in far more expensive lenses).
Bother not that much for the kind of images / subjects I use this lens. As it can be corrected in post.
(Balance between costs and "overcome" lens errors).

Keep in mind, perfect lenses don’t exist. In one way or another there's always a drawback.
If it is not by pure optical means, it is by weight and size, or e.g. manual focus vs. AF.
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