I have to see it in real life. But if it would be available at Lumix S9 prices of Japan, I would probably buy it in combination with a 28mm i-series FFL
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News Sigma BF
- Thread starter GeorgeHudetz
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I have to see it in real life. But if it would be available at Lumix S9 prices of Japan, I would probably buy it in combination with a 28mm i-series FFL
phototrend.fr have an interview with Kazuto Yamaki that includes a section about the BF:
https://phototrend.fr/2025/02/interview-kazuto-yamaki-cp-2025/
Google translation: https://phototrend-fr.translate.goo...uto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
https://phototrend.fr/2025/02/interview-kazuto-yamaki-cp-2025/
Google translation: https://phototrend-fr.translate.goo...uto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
Unfortunately he still is not able to look outside of his own, personal use case comforr zone. Same with Lumix S9.
I understand, that someone who wants to have always an EVF, will not like the S9 or BF.
But guess what? No smartphone user is missing an EVF and they are bought in billions worldwide every year. Also to replace a normal, traditional camera. And exactly for this target group the BF was designed.
The BF is not meant as an alternative to what is already on the market from other brands. The BF is for a target group which does not like what is offered from all the others.
The Sigma BF target group is in this sense a kind of "anti-what-Chris-would-prefer-group".
We will not see many reports on the internet or in forums about BF owners, because the majority of this target group does not spend time in forums or watch camera reviews on YouTube.
They do not care. They just want to have a bigger smartphone with interchangeble lenses and a really cool design for daily use and show-off. To differentiate themselves from others. Only few will have a "real" camera too.
The BF main target group will find real cameras like a "back to the future" video. Something from the 80ies. Like phones with cables hanging from the wall or shaving with a straight razor*.
*= although shaving with a straight razor is really cool again, so wrong example.
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GeorgeHudetz
Well-Known Member
Does anybody know if the S9 is selling well?
I’m not going to bother watching that because it’ll just irritate the heck out of me. I’m sure, come December, he’ll be calling the BF “Worst camera of the year” just like he did with the fp L.
And yet the vast majority of the photos I’ve taken over the last two years have been with the fp L, and they include a fair number of the photos I’m most pleased with from my 25 years with digital cameras, starting back in 2000 with a Nikon D1. The supposed problems and disadvantages of the fp L haven’t really been much of an issue in practice and, together with Sigma’s i-series primes, it produces beautiful images with the best colour I’ve seen from any camera.
I have no interest in using a smartphone for photography but I am interested in the BF. It’s clearly not the ultimate, do-it-all camera, it’s something different, something original, and I’d have a lot of fun finding out what I could do with it.
If you look the CP+ report video from Martin Krolop (german), he showed the longest waiting crowd at the Sigma booth! And additionally from the production rate of nine raw bodies per day this camera is not designed to be a mass product! They could have preproduced bodies for some time, but the output in the future will be very limited. So I think we do not have to care about all the reports, there will be enough buyers to cover the production rate…
And all the others can keep fingers crossed for the next l-mount model…
And all the others can keep fingers crossed for the next l-mount model…
I think this is a very important point. Nowadays many people only look which camera got the best YouTube reviews and buy it blindly.
People need to make up their own mind, think about their own use case and their own, very individual preferences. The camera I like does not have to be the camera someone else likes.
It is good to hear different opinions and exchange pro and cons of the different viewpoints. But I do not have to "like" the same camera or features like my neighbour.
Travis Butler
Well-Known Member
Agreed.
I would put it a little differently: "Someone who wants to shoot in bright sunlight without having to resort to awkward work-arounds will not like the S9 or BF."
An EVF would still be my first preference. But: my first post in this thread talked about a quantum breakthrough in rear screen performance, and I think that still holds true; if Sigma had made a rear screen that was easily visible in bright sunlight, it might not have been what I preferred, but it would still probably have been usable for me.
Unfortunately, from the scenes they shot of people trying to shade the screen, it looks like it's not significantly more usable in bright sunlight than any of the other rear-screen-only cameras I've owned. ;_;
I'm not sure that's a workable comparison. Smartphones have to be usable in bright sunlight - not just for photos, but for texting, emailing, or just about anything else you do with them. So the manufacturers have put more work into the screens.
I'm not sure I agree completely with the first part.
"anti-what-Chris-would-prefer-group", absolutely.
But that definitely doesn't mean the only target group is "doesn't like what's offered from all the others."Chris, from what I could tell, is very much an always-fiddling-with-the-settings shooter. Always manually tweaking shutter speed, aperture, etc. etc. And for that kind of shooter, yeah, the BF will get in their way.
Not everyone is that kind of shooter.
I generally spend very little time adjusting settings. Program mode (effectively aperture priority with the manual lenses I normally shoot with), adjust the aperture occasionally with the lens ring, occasionally adjust exposure compensation, use Auto ISO with a shutter speed floor to let ISO and shutter speed float to match the exposure compensation I set. And that's it. The only thing I do regularly use is focus magnification, so I remapped my fp's AEL button to switch magnification on and off; that's easily 90-95% of the button presses I make on the camera.
The BF would probably work very well for me, if there's an easy way to toggle focus magnification, or if I were using native lenses. If it had a way to shoot in daylight without the hassle of fussing around with some kind of shield for the rear screen.
In theory yes, but these cnc machining centers are really expensive (you have to sell a lot of BF to return an invest of one million or more) and the delivery time could be easily 1-2 years…
On the other side: if production only is a bit behind the demand, the prices will stay constant. That will be also good for Sigma.
This is what Kazuto Yamaki said in the PetaPixel interview.
Pete_W
LMF-Patron
Yes, the lack of understanding (or acceptance?) of product context and target market seems to be a real weakness in their reviews. I have stopped watching them for this reason.
However I did just watch the most recent PP podcast as they were talking about the S1Rii at length including the press trip to Norway, and they had Emily Lowry on as a guest. I was expecting lots of negative comments about the camera but it wasn't the case. Maybe the negativity is being saved for the full review.
Chris was also excitedly talking about how he's purchased a Panasonic GM5, a camera he once owned and loved but sold years ago. He was saying it was such a joy to use. Which is kind of funny because while it does have an EVF, it's not a very good one (he actually said it was like looking down a barrel) and the rear LCD is fixed just like on the Sigma BF!
Ha ha, I am sure you are right about that!
I will probably watch their S1Rii full review but I am sure it will irritate me.
I have an S9 and I use it in bright sunlight. Here in Australia the light is harsh and I used my S9 in the harsh summer sunlight. I purchased one of those SmallRig LCD shrouds but I have not used it once as I've not had a problem seeing the LCD. I just cranked the LCD brightness up and it's fine. I don't know but maybe the "problem" is being over-egged by those who insist on having an EVF?
Travis Butler
Well-Known Member
You saw the pic I posted earlier in the thread about what my fp looks like in bright sunlight, right? I'd call that effectively unusable, and that's with brightness cranked to max. Does the S9's screen look like that?
To be honest - and this is not directed at you, it's a pattern I've seen repeat over and over in the last decade - I've lost all trust in those statements. I see a rear-screen-only camera that looks attractive, I remember the problems I've had with rear screens, and I post asking if the rear screen washes out like every other camera I've owned. And I've been reassured, over and over, that no, the rear screen is fine. And then I buy the camera, and take it out in bright sunlight, and I get... what I posted in that pic earlier. I'm tempted to think it's just me - except I've got the photo evidence I posted, and there are scenes in the PP BF review that show other people shading the screen and having real trouble in bright sunlight. So I dunno. Is it the sunlight around here? But I've had the same problems in St. Louis and Indianapolis and Huntsville AL and Washington DC...
The SmallRig shroud... sorry, that's also unacceptable to me. I've tried those shrouds, over and over again. At best, they're semi-workable and a hassle for me to deal with. At worst, they're still a hassle, and also mostly useless. And on a camera like the S9 or BF - both of them sold as stylish, small and simple cameras, the BF in particular emphasizing elegant minimalism - it seems like those shrouds go against the entire point of the camera.
Pete_W
LMF-Patron
Yes, I saw that photo and no, mine doesn't look like that. However I typically shoot the S9 from waist level with the screen tilted towards up. I never hold the camera out from my body or up high at head level. So if the sun is behind me then the LCD is typically in shade from my body. If the sun is coming from the side then I can tilt the screen to improve the angle.
I am guessing the sunlight where I live is similarly as harsh as where you are. I just checked, Sydney is 33 degrees south, Kansas City is 39 degrees north and the other places you mentioned are around 38 degrees north. I assume the sun is more directly overhead here in summer as we're closer to the equator so more angled for you. According to Google/AI the 33rd parallel north in the United States is the border between Arkansas and Louisiana.
I know one DPR forum member who insisted that the S9's lack of EVF was a complete deal-breaker due to harsh sunlight where she lived in NY state. She eventually bought one to try and found with the LCD brightness cranked up, it worked fine for her too.
I put the shroud on the S9 to test it out when I first got it and yeah, it was slightly fiddly to get on/off. But I figured it was helpful to have something in situations where I had no choice but so far that hasn't happened. It folds flat and is light-weight so it's no bother to carry in the bag.
For me, the lack of IBIS is much more important in 2025... It's like driving a car without power steering. I learned to drive more than 30 years ago with a Renault 18 and to maneuver and park the car you ended up building muscles in your arms hahahaha
I have a Nikon Df that doesn't have IBIS but that camera is special to me... And it came out in 2013, but today I think stabilization in the body is essential.
I have a Nikon Df that doesn't have IBIS but that camera is special to me... And it came out in 2013, but today I think stabilization in the body is essential.