S9, S5, S5ii/x, S1Rii... what's next?

[dirk]

According to the newest rumors on L-rumors, it will take still a lot of time for a S1H successor. I doubt that it will come in 2025, if you read this:

S1H successor:
Panasonic is also actively exploring the planning of the follow-up products of LUMIX S1H. LUMIX S1H, as a camera positioned for film creation, has a unique position in the market. With the continuous development and changes in the field of film micro camera, Panasonic has received a large number of opinions and suggestions from all sides. In terms of product form, there are different expectations from users and the market. Some want the product to be similar to the FX3, cutting out the warship section and focusing on cinema and video functions; some prefer to keep the micro-single form while strengthening the video function; and others expect to make it a square camera similar to the FX6. In terms of functional requirements, features such as 8K 60p or even 8K 120p video shooting and built-in ND filters have become the focus of users’ attention. In order to better meet market demands, Panasonic merged with its professional-grade system imaging division in 2024, integrating the technical resources of both parties and engaging in deeper and closer discussions with technicians. Although the launch date of the next generation of the LUMIX S1H has not yet been determined, it can be seen that Panasonic is putting its best foot forward in the development of this product, and is striving to bring users an even better tool for film creation.

 

[dirk]

I found an interesting article from Thom Hogan about the CP+. He mentions also L-Mount:

...note that the L-mount is getting traction in some of those Chinese optic vendors. The only reason I can think that would be the case is that there's a Chinese L-mount camera coming (DJI already is an official L-mount supporter).

The View After CP+ | Cameras and Photography Explained | Thom Hogan

What did the CP+ show provide us?

www.bythom.com

Maybe one of the next cameras outside of Panasonic will be a Chinese one?

 

[Quentinquirelino]

Fitting to the topic, Panasonic just registered another camera. There are a total number of four registrations with jet unknown model connection. One is the S1RII, but the three others are completely unknown. All four registrations indicate more higher end models because of registered frequencies. Seems like there's a lot to expect from Panasonic this year.

Panasonic did register another camera overseas: Now a total of three cameras should be announced soon! - L mount system camera rumors and news

On 28 February, Panasonic registered another new camera in China. We have now registered a total of three cameras in Asia that have not yet been announced. The next camera will be announced in April, and it's a ‘niche’ L-mount camera that is NOT the S1HII. I don't know yet what the other two cameras

www.l-rumors.com

 

[Nevyn72]

I found an interesting article from Thom Hogan about the CP+. He mentions also L-Mount:

The View After CP+ | Cameras and Photography Explained | Thom Hogan

What did the CP+ show provide us?

www.bythom.com

Maybe one of the next cameras outside of Panasonic will be a Chinese one?

DJI already has 2 camera's with the L-mount, although very niche.
And presumebly the DJI RONIN 4D-8K uses the same sensor as the S1Rii.

I would love a more standard DJI camera (like mirrorless or boxcam formfactor), they are good in shaking up the industry.

 

[RuleOfThirds]

What they need is a fixed lens Leica Q2.5 competitor. A rangefinder style fixed focal 28/2.0 with the sensor of SR1ii. Smaller and lighter then Q3, but with the flip screen from SR1ii.

Or with a lens akin to the tri-elmar. Not a zoom lens but a lens that has 3 fixed positions. 28-35-50

 

[Travis Butler]

What they need is a fixed lens Leica Q2.5 competitor. A rangefinder style fixed focal 28/2.0 with the sensor of SR1ii. Smaller and lighter then Q3, but with the flip screen from SR1ii.

Or with a lens akin to the tri-elmar. Not a zoom lens but a lens that has 3 fixed positions. 28-35-50

Snort.

I've always wanted to try a Tri-Elmar, but...

 

[dirk]

Or with a lens akin to the tri-elmar. Not a zoom lens but a lens that has 3 fixed positions. 28-35-50

Kazuto Yamaki explained in the PetaPixel Interview at CP+ this:

Nowadays the lens design technology is capable to design zoom lenses with a better image quality at similar or smaller sizes. This was not the case 20 or 30 years ago. Therefore something like a Tri-Elmar is very unlikely to happen.

 

[RuleOfThirds]

Nowadays the lens design technology is capable to design zoom lenses with a better image quality at similar or smaller sizes. This was not the case 20 or 30 years ago. Therefore something like a Tri-Elmar is very unlikely to happen.

too bad... always wanted to try one because I think it is way more fun then a zoom. I liked the concept.

Anyway, a full frame rangefinder camera to compete with Fuji would be highly appreciated, and I think that can help Panasonic enormously. Because they will make it of course also quite good at movie. And realtime LUTs. Just drop the gimmick of the OVF to save space, and make it about the same size and weight as the X100VI, and you have a killer product. I would be fine with 35 too.. but 28 is better, because with 44mp you can always use a crop.

I think that if the LX100 had a tilt screen, I never would have gotten a GX80 and a GR3 I guess...

 

[DonaldM]

What about a smaller camera like the Sony A7cr based on the 44mp sensor of the S1r2 with a thin sensor stack? Dedicated to still photography with some video features. I’d like Panasonic to make some small quality lenses to accompany this camera, which would also suit the S9, but also all other L-mount cameras... Most L-mount lenses are huge, even the smaller L-mount lenses (Sigma Contemporary) should be smaller still also for their BF camera.
Also nice to put all kinds of M lenses on (which seem to be on a roll thanks to Voigtlander and a slew of new Chinese vendors).
This would be a valid competitor to the expensive Leica Q3, the (eventual) Leica M EVF, the Fujifilm APS-C line (incl. X100VI) and the Sony A7cr of course.
There certainly is a trend to smaller cameras and lenses of top quality.

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

Smaller lenses would be great but I'm not sure that Panasonic has the market share for a camera as small as the A7CR. Their answer to "small FF" is the S9. A more fully-featured camera would be much better of course but would it really be that much smaller than the S5II? I doubt it.

 

[pdk42]

LX100iii - it’s overdue and this part of the market is hot. The mk ii is selling well on the used market.

 

[Quentinquirelino]

LX100iii - it’s overdue and this part of the market is hot. The mk ii is selling well on the used market.

But hopefully with the newer 25 Mpix Sensor.

 

[CharlesH]

LX100iii - it’s overdue and this part of the market is hot. The mk ii is selling well on the used market.

I had the original LX100, and for sure would go for an updated LX100iii.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

Smaller lenses would be great but I'm not sure that Panasonic has the market share for a camera as small as the A7CR. Their answer to "small FF" is the S9. A more fully-featured camera would be much better of course but would it really be that much smaller than the S5II? I doubt it.

I disagree. I think a smaller body is one of the things that is missing from the L-mount ecosystem. Don't care who builds it - Panasonic, Sigma, DJI - but a smaller body of some kind with a viewfinder and OIS would help complete the system and make it more broadly appealing.

I'd prefer it to have an interchangeable lens, however. But I do appreciate the fixed lens bodies as well. To that point, Fuji is making a fixed-lens, rangefinder-style, GFX. So yeah, we should have one too.

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

I disagree. I think a smaller body is one of the things that is missing from the L-mount ecosystem. Don't care who builds it - Panasonic, Sigma, DJI - but a smaller body of some kind with a viewfinder and OIS would help complete the system and make it more broadly appealing.

I'd prefer it to have an interchangeable lens, however. But I do appreciate the fixed lens bodies as well. To that point, Fuji is making a fixed-lens, rangefinder-style, GFX. So yeah, we should have one too.

My point is, I don't think that if you include a FF sensor and a viewfinder that the size difference when compared to an S5 would be very significant, even if it continued to lack such essentials as a mechanical shutter and flash shoe.

 

[AlanC]

My point is, I don't think that if you include a FF sensor and a viewfinder that the size difference when compared to an S5 would be very significant, even if it continued to lack such essentials as a mechanical shutter and flash shoe.

Sony have done it, and with the shutter (OK, EFCS only) and flash shoe:



8% narrower, 30% shorter, 30% thinner and 31% less weight is pretty significant.

And it's not like Panasonic haven't made some extremely compact cameras in the past: the GM1 and GM5 were incredibly small in relation to the size of the M43 lens mount. OK neither had IBIS but both had a shutter (EFCS only), the GM1 had a built-in flash and the GM5 had a viewfinder and flash shoe.

I reckon Panasonic could easily do it if they saw the market demand for such a camera.

 

[Markuswelder]

And it's not like Panasonic haven't made some extremely compact cameras in the past: the GM1 and GM5 were incredibly small in relation to the size of the M43 lens mount. OK neither had IBIS but both had a shutter (EFCS only), the GM1 had a built-in flash and the GM5 had a viewfinder and flash shoe.

Yeah, they did, but no longer. Why? Obviously they weren't profitable. Maybe if the S9 creates a larger user base they might consider it, but in m4/3 the trend has been pretty much the opposite.

 

[AlanC]

Yeah, they did, but no longer. Why? Obviously they weren't profitable. Maybe if the S9 creates a larger user base they might consider it, but in m4/3 the trend has been pretty much the opposite.

They weren't profitable because people seemed to expect small cameras to be cheap, and the GM1 and GM5 at launch were comparatively expensive because that level of miniaturisation and build quality inevitably costs more. So they didn't sell until Panasonic effectively gave up on the idea and discounted the remaining stock. But they're now selling for quite high prices second hand.

I guess the question is whether customer perceptions have changed. The various rumour sites regularly report Japanese market sales and the Sony A7Cii always seems to do well, but is that specific to Japan? Plus I'd guess Panasonic regard the S9 as their entry in that market so another camera of that type seems unlikely.

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

A lot of people don't want their cameras to be very small because they still equate large with high quality. And some have tried very small cameras and found them to have poorer ergonomics, which in general they do.

I would say the L-mount needs small lenses before it needs smaller cameras, because otherwise what's the point? If the future can bring a smaller Lumix S camera that's not missing a load of essentials then great, but it's hardly what's holding the L-mount back.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

I feel the opposite - I feel like we have plenty of small lenses to choose from, but not one small body with a viewfinder, IBIS, and a mechanical shutter.