New firmware update S5ii(X)

[pdk42]

This behaviour is most likely down to the restrictions iOS places on apps when the device sleeps. In the case where the camera remains awake but the iPhone sleeps you might also find that the app stops responding after a short time since iOS won't allow an app to continue running in the background indefinitely.

I’m sure if Apple produced an app to control a camera it wouldn’t have these problems. I understand that the OS might cause some limitations, but as a user I just want it to work. I’m yet to find any camera control app that works reliably. It needs the camera manufacturers to put some pressure on Apple to fix whatever the limitations are. I guess similar arguments apply to Google and Android.

 

[Pete_W]

If you were browsing photos on the iPhone, why did you need to wake it up?

Sorry, I should have been more precise. My good wife was on the couch next to me and engaged me in some conversation for a minute at which point the phone went to sleep.

 

[Oíche]

I’m sure if Apple produced an app to control a camera it wouldn’t have these problems. I understand that the OS might cause some limitations, but as a user I just want it to work. I’m yet to find any camera control app that works reliably. It needs the camera manufacturers to put some pressure on Apple to fix whatever the limitations are. I guess similar arguments apply to Google and Android.

Yip it is possibly a security issue and specific access is possibly required to access apps running in the background from an external source, but sure we have to pair them and I was asked for passwords regardless. Besides there are "share me" type bluetooth apps, Google and Apple Pay, media uPnP duplex etc. where I can make the phone a file server or client or both etc.

Yeah, we just want it to work, who wants to do troubleshooting? Not me

 

[Pete_W]

Sorry, I should have been more precise. My good wife was on the couch next to me and engaged me in some conversation for a minute at which point the phone went to sleep.

In fact I must have turned it off myself by habit, as the phone won't sleep with the sync app live.

 

[AlanC]

I’m sure if Apple produced an app to control a camera it wouldn’t have these problems.

Of course it wouldn’t: Apple regularly break their own developer “guidelines” or give themselves access to features unavailable to third party developers.

In fact I must have turned it off myself by habit, as the phone won't sleep with the sync app live.

This is the usual solution: the app stops the device from sleeping so it can continue to function.

 

[CharlesH]

As a reliable way of geotagging photos, the behaviour above is really not fit for purpose.

I’m traveling and don’t have my camera with me so I can’t test this, but iOS has a way to keep functions of an app running while the phone is asleep. I did just check my iPhone and this function was not turned on for LUMIX Sync. The way to check this, go to Settings and scroll down to the LUMIX sync app. Under the app settings, Location should be set to Always. If Panasonic has designed the app correctly both the camera and the iPhone can go to sleep, and if the camera is turned on it should geotag.

As an example of this type of function, my Tesla does not have a car key. Instead if I walk up with my phone in my pocket, the car sees the Bluetooth, it identifies me and unlocks the car. Android phones have this same function, but I don’t know how to set it. And as I mentioned in an earlier post Sony cameras have reliable geotagging with your phone in your pocket (and in the Sony app Location is set to Always).

Again, sorry, I won’t have access to my camera for couple of days, but I’d be interested if you could test geotagging with Location set to Always for LUMIX Sync.

 

[Pete_W]

I’m traveling and don’t have my camera with me so I can’t test this, but iOS has a way to keep functions of an app running while the phone is asleep. I did just check my iPhone and this function was not turned on for LUMIX Sync. The way to check this, go to Settings and scroll down to the LUMIX sync app. Under the app settings, Location should be set to Always. If Panasonic has designed the app correctly both the camera and the iPhone can go to sleep, and if the camera is turned on it should geotag.

Location was already set to 'always' in my iPhone so I have just done a few more tests:

1. Phone awake, LUMIX app on-screen - geotag successful
2. Phone put to sleep - geotag still successful
3. Camera woken from sleep, phone still asleep - geotag unsuccessful
4. Phone woken up but LUMIX app left in the background - geotag unsuccessful
5. Phone awake and LUMIX app brought to foreground - geotag successful

I noticed that the BT/GPS icons on the camera LCD go gray (i.e. dull) when the camera loses its BT connection with the phone so you can at least confirm whether the connection is active or not. The blue light remains on all the time.

So based on this, you could at least establish the BT connection and put your phone to sleep and the camera will record GPS data. However as soon as your camera goes to sleep while the phone is asleep, it will not automatically reconnect upon waking the camera.

 

[AlanC]

There's another iPhone setting that will have an effect: Settings | General | Background App Refresh. You want this on for the Lumix Sync App.

I noticed that the BT/GPS icons on the camera LCD go gray (i.e. dull) when the camera loses its BT connection with the phone so you can at least confirm whether the connection is active or not. The blue light remains on all the time.

I've just given it a try and see exactly the same thing: with the iPhone asleep or the app in the background then the bluetooth and GPS icons go grey after the camera sleeps / is woken up. A bluetooth pairing should automatically be re-established with an app if the bluetooth device sleeps / wakes, even if the app is in the background, so this does look like it may be a problem with Lumix Sync. It'll be interesting to see if Lumix Lab behaves properly.

 

[Oíche]

It'll be interesting to see if Lumix Lab behaves properly.

Chances are it won't

Until then and shown otherwise...

 

[Pete_W]

There's another iPhone setting that will have an effect: Settings | General | Background App Refresh. You want this on for the Lumix Sync App.

Just checked and it is already switched on in my iPhone.

I've just given it a try and see exactly the same thing: with the iPhone asleep or the app in the background then the bluetooth and GPS icons go grey after the camera sleeps / is woken up. A bluetooth pairing should automatically be re-established with an app if the bluetooth device sleeps / wakes, even if the app is in the background, so this does look like it may be a problem with Lumix Sync. It'll be interesting to see if Lumix Lab behaves properly.

Thanks for confirming. Hopefully it will be addressed in the LUMIX Lab app.

 

[AlanC]

Thanks for confirming. Hopefully it will be addressed in the LUMIX Lab app.

I've tested it some more with my S5 and found that it does (mostly) work, it's just slow:

With the app in the background and the phone awake, if the camera sleeps and is woken then the bluetooth light and the greyed out icons appear after about 8 seconds and then, after about 18 seconds the icons go white.

With the app in the background and the phone asleep it behaves in much the same way but can take up to 20-25 seconds for the icons to go white, although on one occasion the GPS icon stayed grey.

 

[Pete_W]

I've tested it some more with my S5 and found that it does (mostly) work, it's just slow:

With the app in the background and the phone awake, if the camera sleeps and is woken then the bluetooth light and the greyed out icons appear after about 8 seconds and then, after about 18 seconds the icons go white.

With the app in the background and the phone asleep it behaves in much the same way but can take up to 20-25 seconds for the icons to go white, although on one occasion the GPS icon stayed grey.

Thanks Alan, I will see if I can get the S5II to behave the same. In the field I think this would be a bit problematic, i.e. waiting for reconnection. I guess if I am keen to get the GPS data on every shot I could just forcibly re-establish the connection each time the camera sleeps or I turn it off to change a lens.

 

[RuleOfThirds]

Thank you all for testing and sharing !!

 

[pdk42]

What's really needed for effective geotagging is a GPS receiver in the camera. I wonder what the power hit would be?

 

[Oíche]

What's really needed for effective geotagging is a GPS receiver in the camera. I wonder what the power hit would be?

Several Pentax DSLRs had this and it did impact the battery life a decent enough amount. I had a model without the inbuilt receiver and a seperately attached O-GPS1 module for the hotshoe with it's own AAA battery power supply which it was hungry enough with. It was a horrible unwieldy thing to have attached but apparently worked better than the inbuilt variety, comparing with phones having this it looks ridiculous...

 

[pdk42]

Several Pentax DSLRs had this and it did impact the battery life a decent enough amount. I had a model without the inbuilt receiver and a seperately attached O-GPS1 module for the hotshoe with it's own AAA battery power supply which it was hungry enough with. It was a horrible unwieldy thing to have attached but apparently worked better than the inbuilt variety, comparing with phones having this it looks ridiculous...View attachment 5556

Hmm, so maybe not then

 

[CharlesH]

Here is the way to keep GPS geotagging working while you use the phone for other things or let it go to sleep, and while you let the camera power down. I has some limitations but I will get to that later.

Bluetooth settings. I don't know if all these are required, but here are my settings.
Bluetooth: ON
Remote Wakeup: ON
Returning from Sleep Mode: Phone to Camera
Location Logging: ON

Power Saving Mode Settings. (Important)
Sleep Mode: OFF
Auto LVF/Monitor Off: 1 MIN

Note that with these last settings the camera does not go to sleep. The view finder and monitor turn off, which cuts most of the battery drain. But the camera does not sleep, and the Bluetooth stays on. In this mode GPS geotagging stays on, and when you hit half shutter to wake up the displays, GPS geotagging is instantly alive.

Limitations
The camera must always be in Bluetooth range of the phone. For example the phone can be in your pocket.
For the initial start up the LUMIX Sync app must be visible on the screen. If you turn off the camera, LUMIX Sync needs to be re-started.
There is still quite a bit of battery drain. I'd estimate about two hours of battery life in this mode. To get back to normal turn Sleep Mode back to ON.

I see this as a viable work around, but a work around nevertheless. If you are somewhere where you want geotagging it is an okay solution.

Does this work on your camera?

 

[Pete_W]

Here is the way to keep GPS geotagging working while you use the phone for other things or let it go to sleep, and while you let the camera power down. I has some limitations but I will get to that later.

Bluetooth settings. I don't know if all these are required, but here are my settings.
Bluetooth: ON
Remote Wakeup: ON
Returning from Sleep Mode: Phone to Camera
Location Logging: ON

Power Saving Mode Settings. (Important)
Sleep Mode: OFF
Auto LVF/Monitor Off: 1 MIN

Note that with these last settings the camera does not go to sleep. The view finder and monitor turn off, which cuts most of the battery drain. But the camera does not sleep, and the Bluetooth stays on. In this mode GPS geotagging stays on, and when you hit half shutter to wake up the displays, GPS geotagging is instantly alive.

Limitations
The camera must always be in Bluetooth range of the phone. For example the phone can be in your pocket.
For the initial start up the LUMIX Sync app must be visible on the screen. If you turn off the camera, LUMIX Sync needs to be re-started.
There is still quite a bit of battery drain. I'd estimate about two hours of battery life in this mode. To get back to normal turn Sleep Mode back to ON.

I see this as a viable work around, but a work around nevertheless. If you are somewhere where you want geotagging it is an okay solution.

Does this work on your camera?

Thanks Charles! That sounds like a good workaround. I will take a look at the settings tonight when I get home and give it a try.

I only recently started using power-save mode on the S5II. Prior to that, my usual routine was to simply turn the camera off between shots. So this could be viable solution. I have three batteries so I have plenty of power.

 

[pdk42]

Here is the way to keep GPS geotagging working while you use the phone for other things or let it go to sleep, and while you let the camera power down. I has some limitations but I will get to that later.

Bluetooth settings. I don't know if all these are required, but here are my settings.
Bluetooth: ON
Remote Wakeup: ON
Returning from Sleep Mode: Phone to Camera
Location Logging: ON

Power Saving Mode Settings. (Important)
Sleep Mode: OFF
Auto LVF/Monitor Off: 1 MIN

Note that with these last settings the camera does not go to sleep. The view finder and monitor turn off, which cuts most of the battery drain. But the camera does not sleep, and the Bluetooth stays on. In this mode GPS geotagging stays on, and when you hit half shutter to wake up the displays, GPS geotagging is instantly alive.

Limitations
The camera must always be in Bluetooth range of the phone. For example the phone can be in your pocket.
For the initial start up the LUMIX Sync app must be visible on the screen. If you turn off the camera, LUMIX Sync needs to be re-started.
There is still quite a bit of battery drain. I'd estimate about two hours of battery life in this mode. To get back to normal turn Sleep Mode back to ON.

I see this as a viable work around, but a work around nevertheless. If you are somewhere where you want geotagging it is an okay solution.

Does this work on your camera?

I haven’t checked whether my iPhone settings match yours exactly Charles, but the key point in your approach is that you don’t let the camera sleep. Based on my tests, the main limitation seems to be that once the Bluetooth link is lost when the camera sleeps, you need the LUMIX app to be actively running in the foreground for it to be re-established.

For my purposes, leaving the camera powered up is not a workable scenario since I’ll be out for hours at a time with the camera being turned on for short periods to capture some scene before moving on. So, to use geotagging consistently, I’d need to fiddle with the phone each time to re-establish the link. It’s just not worth the hassle tbh. And leaving the camera on for hours is guaranteed to flatten the battery.

 

[CharlesH]

For my purposes, leaving the camera powered up is not a workable scenario since I’ll be out for hours at a time with the camera being turned on for short periods to capture some scene before moving on. So, to use geotagging consistently, I’d need to fiddle with the phone each time to re-establish the link.

I said it is a workaround. Until Panasonic has an app that works without this workaround it's a way to geotag for several hours without the need to mess with the phone for every picture. I wrote it up because I thought it might be useful for some. I did a further test with a freshly charged battery and got well over three hours.