News Lumix S9 - new camera rumor roundup

[Quentinquirelino]

...But Sony is making lots of money with the ZV line.

As I've read, Sony's ZV series makes about the half sales value of Sony's camera sales. But I know, the ZV-E10 and ZV-1 are used exclusively for photography by many, despite being video centred.


However, I still hope the S9 will get a mechanical shutter.

 

[robin0112358]

Neither, a mechanical shutter or an EVF, are essential for a hybrid camera. It's all down to personal choice, shooting stile and preferences.

That would mean that every camera is a hybrid camera, which is patently untrue.

Panasonic had have add-on EVFs for MFT. For example the DMW-LVF2.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Quentinquirelino]

That would mean that every camera is a hybrid camera, which is patently untrue.

Well, every camera that can record video and can take photos is basically a hybrid camera. Because that's the definition of a hybrid camera.

In opposite to camcorders, not suited for taking photos or early DSLR not able shot videos.

But of course, not every camera can do both equally good. Marketing vice, cameras with a higher amount of video features are marketed as hybrid camera. But that doesn't say much about there photo capabilities.

 

[Pete_W]

Well, maybe I'm having a bad morning (I received the 28-200 and IMHO it's really an awful lens),

Sorry to hear that Paul.

but producing an FF ILC without an EVF is IMHO a really, really stupid decision. An ILC costing what is surely well above 1000 £/€/$ is going to be bought by people who feel they need a "proper" camera (why else the interchangeable lenses). So why, oh why, would you make a "proper" camera without an EVF? It absolutely will put off a lot of potential buyers. For the sake of another cm in height and perhaps 50g, this just has to be a bonkers design decision.

I take the view that Panasonic already make a number of great L-mount cameras with an EVF, so if they produce a new camera without an EVF, it's not really a problem. It's simply a product that is targeted at a different market segment. They're clearly aiming this at the vlogging market where the Sony ZV series is popular.

 

[pdk42]

Sorry to hear that Paul.



I take the view that Panasonic already make a number of great L-mount cameras with an EVF, so if they produce a new camera without an EVF, it's not really a problem. It's simply a product that is targeted at a different market segment. They're clearly aiming this at the vlogging market where the Sony ZV series is popular.

Yes, that's true. But OTOH I've lost count of the number of times I've heard existing L-mount users asking for a rangefinder-style compact body. Here it is, but it's missing a finder!

 

[AlanC]

I take the view that Panasonic already make a number of great L-mount cameras with an EVF, so if they produce a new camera without an EVF, it's not really a problem. It's simply a product that is targeted at a different market segment. They're clearly aiming this at the vlogging market where the Sony ZV series is popular.

It's disappointing for those of us who like rangefinder style cameras that Panasonic have chosen to make their first S-Series body of that type into a vlogging camera.

 

[Markuswelder]

Thanks for the correction.

And a few of their LX cameras as well

 

[Quentinquirelino]

Yes, that's true. But OTOH I've lost count of the number of times I've heard existing L-mount users asking for a rangefinder-style compact body. Here it is, but it's missing a finder!

I'm one of those, but my disappointment is on a very low level. I would prefer to have an EVF. But I for what and how I would use such a camera, I can live without. I'm happy that I finally will get a option to substitute my GX80, with less compromises than the existing options. Namely less compromises than Sigma FP and Leica TL2 or CL.

 

[Markuswelder]

Yes, that's true. But OTOH I've lost count of the number of times I've heard existing L-mount users asking for a rangefinder-style compact body. Here it is, but it's missing a finder!

What you're forgetting I think, is that what you read here, & in a lot of other photography forums, are mostly the wishes of old men who shoot basically only stills. Which I'm guessing is an exceedingly small portion of the market Panasonic is taking aim at with this/these cameras

 

[pdk42]

What you're forgetting I think, is that what you read here, & in a lot of other photography forums, are mostly the wishes of old men who shoot basically only stills. Which I'm guessing is an exceedingly small portion of the market Panasonic is taking aim at with this/these cameras

Guilty as charged!

 

[Nevyn72]

Latest news: No mechanical shutter...

One more leaked image of the S9 and additional new info: No mechanical shutter and two new compact lenses! - L mount system camera rumors and news

A source (Thanks!) shared this image of the S9. For the first time we can see the top of the camera. And it's also clear it has no mechanical shutter to keep the body "slim". I also have been told there are two compact lenses coming! One is the 18-40mm pancake zoom and another one

www.l-rumors.com

Does still have PASM though

Ok i get the popcorn to see this unfold in this thread

 

[pdk42]

I'll go first with the entertainment while you open your popcorn...

1) Lack of grip - every camera I've seen with no grip ends up with a plethora of 3rd party add-on grip options arriving in due course. I wonder why?

2) I can't see a rear thumb wheel. Maybe it's just got a annular wheel around the menu button like on the S5. If so - really bad ergonomics.

3) Three C mode - nice!

4) Where's the dial for drive modes?

5) Unless there are a stack of them on the back, I can't see any buttons for ISO etc.

6) No mechanical shutter wouldn't worry me, but if it's the same sensor as the S5ii then readout speed is quite slow, so it won't suit action shooters (but no EVF would sort of rule it out for that anyhow).

7) Not clear if rear screen is tilt only or swivel. I assume it's swivel, but hard to see.

8) Looks like a direct competitor to the Sony ZV-E1

This is definitely not the camera for me!

 

[pdk42]

 

[Quentinquirelino]

I'm not happy about the non mechanical shutter. It makes it less attractive to me and it's a bigger drawback as the missing EVF for me.

But still it looks like the best compact option in the L-Mount. We will see.

 

[Travis Butler]

I go to sleep and the thread explodes... ^^;;

Sheesh?. I've no idea why you'd be annoyed by a camera where users don't use an EVF doesn't have one?

The frustration was that, after explicitly citing the GM5 viewfinder twice, someone was still bringing up the S5II viewfinder as an argument against. It felt like not paying attention at best.

Phones don't have them yet this camera is marketed at those who want FF sensor video quality, especially in darker environments where your issue isn't gonna be one.... Night vlogging etc. where FF has the advantage and possibly why you'd want it over a small sensor phone.

Upgrading from a phone is exactly the point.

You don't upgrade from a phone - especially to 'FF sensor video quality' - unless you're feeling limited by the phone and want to get something better. It suggests wanting to get serious. To me, at least, getting serious includes having a viewfinder available for when the screen washes out.

The whole reason I'm making such a fuss about this is that I've had many, many times when the rear screen has washed out. Multiple shooting situations. Multiple locations. Multiple cameras. It's not some kind of rare exception for me; it's a painful experience I've had so often that it's a hot-button issue for me. What makes it even worse is that I've ignored this experience more than once because a new camera looked tempting - and I admit, the first rumored pic does look tempting! - and the coverage insisted that no, really, this time the rear screen really is good enough to use outdoors in all conditions! Only to get burned again when, yes, the screen is unreadable in the bright outdoors.

 

[Travis Butler]

Well, maybe I'm having a bad morning (I received the 28-200 and IMHO it's really an awful lens), but producing an FF ILC without an EVF is IMHO a really, really stupid decision. An ILC costing what is surely well above 1000 £/€/$ is going to be bought by people who feel they need a "proper" camera (why else the interchangeable lenses). So why, oh why, would you make a "proper" camera without an EVF? It absolutely will put off a lot of potential buyers. For the sake of another cm in height and perhaps 50g, this just has to be a bonkers design decision.

Doesn't even have to be a full cm; look at this comparison between the GM1 and GM5, the extra height is barely noticeable.

Compare camera dimensions side by side

camerasize.com

 

[Travis Butler]

I'll go first with the entertainment while you open your popcorn...

1) Lack of grip - every camera I've seen with no grip ends up with a plethora of 3rd party add-on grip options arriving in due course. I wonder why?

Customization?

That's kinda my take on it, especially looking at the fp. Since the attachment point is a standard tripod socket, it's easy to make one whatever size/shape you want; I've talked to people using pistol grips, bat-handle, wooden that can be sanded for a custom fit, larger grip with a bottom frame incorporating an Arca tripod mount, etc.

2) I can't see a rear thumb wheel. Maybe it's just got a annular wheel around the menu button like on the S5. If so - really bad ergonomics.

Yeah, dial around the menu button is a really bad design. That was the other big complaint about the GM1 that got fixed in the GM5.

That's something that's really starting to bug me, looking at the rumor pic - it resembles the GM1 so strongly that it feels like Panasonic is going down the same path, going through all that fuss again and learning nothing from the first time through.

4) Where's the dial for drive modes?

5) Unless there are a stack of them on the back, I can't see any buttons for ISO etc.

Presumably both of them will be handled by a quick menu/touchscreen, as they have in every other small camera I've used - the GM series, GX85, Oly Pen-F, Coolpix A, etc.

This doesn't bother me; a small-as-possible camera only has room for the most essential physical controls. One control dial, a "quick menu" button, a "standard menu" button, a playback button, one or two programmable function buttons... honestly, again the GM5 is a pretty good implementation of the controls I'd want on a small camera.

6) No mechanical shutter wouldn't worry me, but if it's the same sensor as the S5ii then readout speed is quite slow, so it won't suit action shooters (but no EVF would sort of rule it out for that anyhow).

The fully-electronic shutter on the fp is generally fine, but I do occasionally see color banding when shooting digital projector output.

• 1/50 sec
• Pattern
• ISO 1600

The GM series had a hybrid shutter; it's been long enough I don't remember the details, but IIRC one curtain was mechanical and the other digital.

This is definitely not the camera for me!

If it had a viewfinder, I'd be very tempted. I love miniaturized electronics, and this hits that sweet spot.

 

[Markuswelder]

The GM series had a hybrid shutter; it's been long enough I don't remember the details, but IIRC one curtain was mechanical and the other digital.

Yeah. Electronic first curtain. It's still in use today in the G100, up to 1/500 mechanical shutter speed, 1/50 flash sync speed. Some flashes will even give you HSS as well.
Got to remember these are still just rumours, the new camera could have a version of that

 

[Oíche]

Looks like a direct competitor to the Sony ZV-E1

That's the only point you needed to say, it's exactly that and I reckon it will be very successful.

Hopefully that will ease your grief

 

[pdk42]

That's the only point you needed to say, it's exactly that and I reckon it will be very successful.

Hopefully that will ease your grief

Well, I've tuned out now. Nothing to see here. TBH, I'm thinking seriously of an A7RC.