News Lumix S9 - new camera rumor roundup

[Oíche]

Tony seems to think it is a vertical camera to be used like phones it due to seeing him seeing some 4:3 footage or something. This would be funny as the Italian guy with his secret KGB source has been spoofing him a load of BS, maybe Lumix set him up?

Looking at my S5ii visually detracting the large EVF/fan housing and large grip it still isn't that small or thin... And if it doesn't have the fan it isn't capable of the continuous video the S5ii can do either, unless they built a new heatsink piped design which wouldn't be cheap to do either. More than likely they would have designed the S5ii with such a design in the first place without a fan, but maybe that Sony one does this?

Photographers need not care regardless.

One last thing... Italian said 4 colours... Black, Green, Blue and Red. Not quite Pentax 128 varieties but that could be a decent move and the pictures he showed (Lumix KGB leak) looked nice. I'd want a blue one and like I said before it reminded me of Pentax K-01 which means Pentax were a decade ahead in marketing design and ideas.

They even did the same thing using the sensor from the APSC K-30 (which I owned) and deducted the viewfinder and grip. Unfortunately it was their last and only mirrorless APSC camera, and sucked for video even if I have several memorable short clips of video using it, but there is little denial in the similarity if the Italian is right. It was all at the wrong time for them nor did the tech exists.

The 40mm f2.8 lens on it was really good though, I owned the metal Limited version.
You got to admit, isn't she pretty

 

[Travis Butler]

I don't know about the EVF... I was using the GX9 for photography for two years and I never used the small EVF. I even bought the rubber eye-cup for it but I used it just a couple of times and not more. Nowadays I use as my everyday carry camera the Ricoh GR3 and I don't need a EVF for it.

I think the EVF helps in big cameras and it is a joy to use for example in the S1R or the Leicas SL. An extremely small EVF like the one in the GX9 or the GM5 could be useful in an extreme situation. But I am not sure if the "content creators" (tiktokers, youtubers, instagramers, etc.), do need an EVF...

I know you've mentioned your experiences in Spain vs Central Europe as your foundation. And I haven't been to Central Europe, or Europe at all beyond England/Isle of Man. But I would still like - respectfully! - to suggest that lack of an EVF is still a big mistake.

I've been to England/Isle of Man. I've been all over the US - live in Kansas City, traveled to Florida, New York, DC, Boston, Minnesota, Tennessee/Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio, Illinois, Colorado/Wyoming, Idaho, South Dakota, Texas, Nevada, San Francisco and San Diego. About the only US climates I've never experienced have been Pacific Northwest and New England.

The only place I've never experienced sun bright enough to wash out a back-mounted display was England/Isle of Man. Every other place I've visited has had sunny days bright enough to wash out a rear screen.

Every. One.

Moonshine country in Land Between the Lakes. Boundary Waters Canoe Area on the Minnesota/Canada border. The US Space & Rocket Center in Alabama. St. Louis by the Arch. Chicago. The Capitol, the Mall, the Jefferson Memorial in DC. Iowa and central Illinois farmland. New York City. Cape Canaveral. San Francisco. San Diego Zoo and the Midway Museum. Indianapolis - trying to use an articulated rear screen to focus during the eclipse was an exercise in frustration. Las Vegas doesn't even bear thinking about.

Even a small viewfinder like the GX9 or the GM5 is a lifesaver - it's not perfect, but it's good enough to be able to frame shots, and that's what's needed above all to take a photo. These are not extreme situations; these are my everyday shooting experience.

Again, I respectfully suggest that areas with sun bright enough to wash out a rear screen are far more common than not.

 

[Oíche]

But I am not sure if the "content creators" (tiktokers, youtubers, instagramers, etc.), do need an EVF...

For those you mention photographs are snaps. It seems mad having an S5ii sensor to do this I know. You could still do landscape photography with it as good as S5ii a bit like I did on DSLR at low levels etc... basically LiveView finder. In fact it would still be superior to my former Pentax DSLR using LiveView modes using the rear screen... If the Italian is right on this... Hmmmmmm

 

[Oíche]

Every other place I've visited has had sunny days bright enough to wash out a rear screen.

Smallrig make a specific S5ii/G9ii LCD hood especially for eliminating this problem, I don't have it but I'm sure it works.

Any camera LCD has the same problem and I also read the S5ii/G9ii screens are much brighter than others, maybe Sony A7IV comparison.

You can't have the S5ii hooded EVF in this smaller camera concept, it's ommited for a reason and it's not supposed to be a photography orientated camera in the first place.

 

[Travis Butler]

Smallrig make a specific S5ii/G9ii LCD hood especially for eliminating this problem, I don't have it but I'm sure it works.

I tried something like that, made for the K-01. Frame that attached around the rear screen, flip-up shade with side panels to block the light.

It didn't work. It helped a little in some situations, but it wasn't nearly good enough to fix the problem.

What did work was a full-on lightbox that attached to the back of the camera, like this one for the Sigma fp:

• Apple - iPhone 13 mini
• iPhone 13 mini back dual wide camera 5.1mm f/1.6
• 5.1 mm
• ƒ/1.6
• 1/5 sec
• Pattern
• Auto exposure
• -0.1
• ISO 1250

Of course, that's bulky enough to completely ruin the size advantage of the camera, so what's the point?

You can't have the S5ii hooded EVF in this smaller camera concept

<points to the places above where I specifically said the small GM5 viewfinder was good enough!!!>
Sheesh.

 

[Quentinquirelino]

It's hard to argue against a few finder. The potential user base of the camera would be a lot bigger, even with a tiny one. But I still know many photographers who never use it and would prefer something without EVF. I personally would prefer to have one and use it on the S5 almost always. But on the GX80 I rarely used it. Before the GX80, I have had a PL5 without build in EVF but with attachable EVF. The PL5 was better to use without but in some situations it was handy to have the attachable EVF. But mainly because of the display. If it had been brighter, I wouldn't have used it at all.

For me, I think a EVF is not mandatory for what I would use the S9. An attachable EVF would be nice though.

 

[Nevyn72]

Different people, different usecases... But might also depend on a persons sight.

I never used the S5 viewfinder, didn't work with my eyes/glasses, I could never see anything.

I heard that the S5iiX viewfinder was better, so I tried it again but still I could hardly see a thing.

But than I bought a bigger Eyecup for my S5iiX, and that did the trick. Still cannot see everything sharp at once, but good enough to make it work.

I still prefer the back screen but at least in strong light situation I can use the viewfinder.

But I do prefer the screen still. For me no EVF is not a deal breaker, actually I prefer that because it would be a small one anyways, but for different users with different eyesight I can imagen it's useful.

 

[xaviergut]

I know you've mentioned your experiences in Spain vs Central Europe as your foundation. And I haven't been to Central Europe, or Europe at all beyond England/Isle of Man. But I would still like - respectfully! - to suggest that lack of an EVF is still a big mistake.

I've been to England/Isle of Man. I've been all over the US - live in Kansas City, traveled to Florida, New York, DC, Boston, Minnesota, Tennessee/Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio, Illinois, Colorado/Wyoming, Idaho, South Dakota, Texas, Nevada, San Francisco and San Diego. About the only US climates I've never experienced have been Pacific Northwest and New England.

The only place I've never experienced sun bright enough to wash out a back-mounted display was England/Isle of Man. Every other place I've visited has had sunny days bright enough to wash out a rear screen.

Every. One.

Moonshine country in Land Between the Lakes. Boundary Waters Canoe Area on the Minnesota/Canada border. The US Space & Rocket Center in Alabama. St. Louis by the Arch. Chicago. The Capitol, the Mall, the Jefferson Memorial in DC. Iowa and central Illinois farmland. New York City. Cape Canaveral. San Francisco. San Diego Zoo and the Midway Museum. Indianapolis - trying to use an articulated rear screen to focus during the eclipse was an exercise in frustration. Las Vegas doesn't even bear thinking about.

Even a small viewfinder like the GX9 or the GM5 is a lifesaver - it's not perfect, but it's good enough to be able to frame shots, and that's what's needed above all to take a photo. These are not extreme situations; these are my everyday shooting experience.

Again, I respectfully suggest that areas with sun bright enough to wash out a rear screen are far more common than not.

Yes, yes, Travis, I see your point.

I don't know, but if Lumix has aimed this camera for videographers more than photographers, then they should think about a on-camera display as bright as the Atomos Ninja or the Blackmagic video assist devices for places with a lot of light like the ones you mencioned before. It seems that they can be adjusted for situations with a lot of light.

By the way, someday I would like to travel to the amazing Big Bend National Park, on the border between the USA and Mexico. I think there is also a lot of light and from the images I have seen the light level and the landscape is very similar to that of Spain.

 

[Oíche]

Of course, that's bulky enough to completely ruin the size advantage of the camera, so what's the point?

I don't know so ask Panasonic, you're talking as a photographer and not the intended market. K-01 had a low luminance screen for starters in comparison to S5ii. It doesn't seemingly stop phone videographers either in any conditions.

Sheesh?. I've no idea why you'd be annoyed by a camera where users don't use an EVF doesn't have one? Phones don't have them yet this camera is marketed at those who want FF sensor video quality, especially in darker environments where your issue isn't gonna be one.... Night vlogging etc. where FF has the advantage and possibly why you'd want it over a small sensor phone.

 

[Oíche]

It's hard to argue against a few finder

It really is, those who never use it or want to.

This camera is aimed at phone videographers who never used a viewfinder, simple as that.

I'm not one of them and neither are you, it's a different universe for us I understand

 

[pdk42]

I guess we've all got our own opinions, but I really think it's crazy not to have a viewfinder. The Sony A7C is a great example of a really compact, FF, interchangeable lens camera and it's got an EVF. It's hard to imagine that the EVF adds much to the size and yet its presence removes objections from people like me who would never buy a camera without a viewfinder. As it is, this new S9 will never be in my bag because I don't think a serious camera should be without one. I would 100% have bought it as a replacement for my S5ii if it had an EVF. But without it - no deal.

 

[Oíche]

It's hard to imagine that the EVF adds much to the size and yet its presence removes objections from people like me who would never buy a camera without a viewfinder. As it is, this new S9 will never be in my bag because I don't think a serious camera should be without one

More than likely you'd have hated the inferior viewfinder in the S7C. This is not for photographers who never do video and doesn't pretend to. They've stated the intended market which is not you, nor me.

 

[Oíche]

An attachable EVF would be nice though

What's the point of that when you can buy one built in? It flies in adversity to the whole purpose of it in the first place. I.e for users who don't need nor want a viewfinder.

However I find it amusing if some will buy cages, monitors, SSDs, microphones and a rig around it and it'll probably happen... Smallrig for Lumix S9

 

[pdk42]

More than likely you'd have hated the inferior viewfinder in the S7C. This is not for photographers who never do video and doesn't pretend to. They've stated the intended market which is not you, nor me.

I've played with an A7C and whilst the finder isn't great, it's more than acceptable. Whilst I really appreciate the amazing experience of the S1R's EVF, I was actually quite happy with the rather low quality finder on the OG S5. In my view, the finder is about composition and camera control, and that doesn't need a top-quality panel. But being able to do that with the camera to the eye is essential - that way the camera is nicely braced, and you can do it in bright lighting. Neither is possible with a rear screen.

 

[Quentinquirelino]

What's the point of that when you can buy one built in? ...

As it seems, there is no build in EVF in the S9. And there is no camera as small as the S9 with build in EVF on the horizon. For me am EVF in such a camera is not mandatory but nice to have. I wouldn't use it most of the time, but maybe there are situations where it would be good to have.

 

[robin0112358]

To separate personal preference from camera design choices, we can takes a more considered view of Panasonic's place in the market.

Panasonic advantages include their video technology, which has trickled down from their professional systems to the Lumix range. And their IBIS... which many other brands now also implement. The Lumix S range was specifically designed as a hybrid system for those who want an excellent stills camera and an excellent video camera without getting the absolute best of both worlds. Their marketing foregrounds the full-frame sensor, the IBIS, and the creative possibilities of the cameras. The artists they foreground as ambassadors are photographers not video makers.

A hybrid camera requires a mechanical shutter alongside an electronic shutter and an EVF alongside a screen. There are many situations where a viewfinder becomes essential, as posters above have made clear. The introduction of a more compact hybrid camera opens up a new market, and would seem to be a great idea.

But a camera designed for vloggers that is not a hybrid marks a deviation from Panasonic's established course. It puts them in direct competition with established brands such as Sony and the Canon/Nikon hegemony. Plenty of cameras already exist in this niche. What is the new Panasonic model bringing to the table? Nothing. Hence I judge this to be a poor decision. Panasonic should stay in their niche and develop it fully.

As an aside, Panasonic also need a small camera in their M43 line. For some reason they have abandoned the popular GX9 form factor. Which, I note with emphasis, did include an EVF. A distinctive tilting EVF to boot.

If the information we have on the forthcoming camera is incorrect I will naturally revise to fit the facts. For example, a well-implemented add-on EVF would change the situation. Though that seems unlikely since Panasonic have never offered such before.

 

[Nevyn72]

To separate personal preference from camera design choices, we can takes a more considered view of Panasonic's place in the market.

Panasonic advantages include their video technology, which has trickled down from their professional systems to the Lumix range. And their IBIS... which many other brands now also implement. The Lumix S range was specifically designed as a hybrid system for those who want an excellent stills camera and an excellent video camera without getting the absolute best of both worlds. Their marketing foregrounds the full-frame sensor, the IBIS, and the creative possibilities of the cameras. The artists they foreground are photographers not video makers.

A hybrid camera requires a mechanical shutter alongside an electronic shutter and an EVF alongside a screen. There are many situations where a viewfinder becomes essential, as posters above have made clear. The introduction of a more compact hybrid camera opens up a new market.

But a camera designed for vloggers that is not a hybrid marks a deviation from Panasonic's established course. It puts them in competition to established brands such as Sony and the Canon/Nikon hegemony. Plenty of cameras already exist in this niche. What is the new Panasonic model bringing to the table? Nothing. Hence I judge this to be a poor decision.

As an aside, Panasonic also need a small camera in their M43 line. For some reason they have abandoned the popular GX9 form factor. Which, I note with emphasis, did include an EVF. A distinctive tilting EVF to boot.

If the information we have on the forthcoming camera is incorrect I will naturally revise to fit the facts. For example, a well-implemented add-on EVF would change the situation. Though that seems unlikely since Panasonic have never offered such before.

Panasonic has to find new buyers, and where are these found?

- In markets where not all is settled yet, Like China. They have completely other demands than the traditional photographer/videographer.
- The younger generation from the western world who want to be a vlogger/influencer.

Both groups are used to make content with their phone, but want better quality and want to look cool with it. Thats also why a lut-button will be there, just like the new fuji xt50 even has a films-simulation 'dail' on it. And thats why the EVF is not important for them.

Although many might not be happy with these choices from the 'old' generation, it makes perfect sense.

They know what they are doing, and it's actually really smart.

And for the older generation: if a lot more people are going to use L-mount, in the end they will want to have better and better quality. In the end that makes it easier for Panasonic to make the camera you want.

Actually I even might be interested in this camera as C-cam as the video is good enough (meaning 10-bit 4K 25p, with preferably unlimited recording time). And than I see myself also using this camera when I don't want to take my S5iiX with me...

 

[pdk42]

Well, maybe I'm having a bad morning (I received the 28-200 and IMHO it's really an awful lens), but producing an FF ILC without an EVF is IMHO a really, really stupid decision. An ILC costing what is surely well above 1000 £/€/$ is going to be bought by people who feel they need a "proper" camera (why else the interchangeable lenses). So why, oh why, would you make a "proper" camera without an EVF? It absolutely will put off a lot of potential buyers. For the sake of another cm in height and perhaps 50g, this just has to be a bonkers design decision.

 

[Quentinquirelino]

A hybrid camera requires a mechanical shutter alongside an electronic shutter and an EVF alongside a screen. There are many situations where a viewfinder becomes essential, as posters above have made clear. The introduction of a more compact hybrid camera opens up a new market, and would seem to be a great idea.

Neither, a mechanical shutter or an EVF, are essential for a hybrid camera. It's all down to personal choice, shooting stile and preferences.

If the information we have on the forthcoming camera is incorrect I will naturally revise to fit the facts. For example, a well-implemented add-on EVF would change the situation. Though that seems unlikely since Panasonic have never offered such before.

Panasonic had have add-on EVFs for MFT. For example the DMW-LVF2.

 

[xaviergut]

What is the new Panasonic model bringing to the table? Nothing.

Well, I would say the new camera brings money... Is a camera to compete with the Sony ZV line (videocentric FF camera) because Canon, Nikon or Fuji don't have something similar. The only similar product would be the Sigma FP. But Sony is making lots of money with the ZV line.