Lumix 28-200

[dirk]

I don't think it's at all true to say there are almost no gaps in the L-mount lens line-up.

There will always be a gap. A Zeiss manager told me around 15 years ago, that 90% of the lenses sold in the photo industry are in the focal range of 28mm and 85mm. Only 10% aare sold outside of this range. In the analogue time, these 28-85mm were covered mostly by FFL and at that time of the conversation this changed totally to zooms.

My guess is that nowadays these numbers changed slightly. I assume that the most bought focal ranges are today between 24-75mm, because of all the zooms out there within that range. But the 90% rule probably still applies.

As a consequence, only few photographers are buying focal ranges above 85mm. Each brand will therefore wait to release these "exotic" lenses for the time when everything else is well covered or if there is an even like Olympics on the way for which you need specific focal ranges in case you have customers who do sport photography. The development of an exotic lens costs the same as a standard lens, but you sell less of them. To increase profits, especially while launching a new lens mount, you need to prioritize.

But that does not mean that the rest is not coming. Sigma, Leica and Panasonic released in 2023 I think 14 new lenses and already 6 new lenses until February 2024. Let's assume that they will target again 14 new lesens for 2024, there would be still 8 new lenses coming in 2024 only from these 3 companies. Let alone Samyang and others.

28mm, 40mm, 135mm and 200mm primes

28mm I agree. There are Leica alternatives, but these are to expensive for the normal L-Mount customer. The alliance missed so far this opportunity and 28mm fans will hesitate to enter the L-Mount system just because of the lacking 28mm lens choice

40mm is a kind of special FL in between 35mm and 50mm, which are well covered in L-Mount. There is the 45/2.8 and the Sigma 40/1.4 HSM Art in L-Mount. That one is very big and heavy (1.2kg). According to reviews an outstanding optical performer. But I could imagine that Sigma will update this lens in a DG DN version, which would make it smaller and lighter

Same story for the 135mm. Not a mainstream lens. Available in L-Mount. 135/1.8 HSM Art. Big and heavy (1.1kg). I think that one is even more likely to get a rebirth as a DG DN lens because of the benefits for wedding photography with that lens.

200mm prime is difficult to judge. Many tele zooms cover this range with a very good image quality. If someone launches this as a 200mm, this will be probably a beast to be able to outperform these tele zooms. I do not know how many people would buy a big, heavy and expensive 200mm over an excellent tele zoom, which gives more flexibility.

But no matter whether my assumptions are right or wrong, if we get each year 14 new lenses for L-Mount, I am sure that every wish will be fullfilled, no matter whether it is exotic or not. We have now such a huge base of lenses, that I am really confident with any kind of missing lenses.

Compact lenses - there isn't a single one I would class as compact
Cheaper lenses to bring in new people (hopefully on the way from Samyang)
A super-zoom that starts at 24mm
f/4 zooms (24-70mm, 70-200mm...) from Sigma which would be much cheaper than Panasonic versions

I agree.

As for cheaper. entry-level bodies, I think the fP is the only one and it's cheaper than a lot of APS-C models for other mounts.

That is an interesting observation. Unfortunately, the Fp is expensive in Germany. But I think the Fp could be a great brainstorming model to talk about what a future body should have. I will open an extra thread for this. I have many ideas

I agree that the 28-200mm is over-priced, but then I regard almost all Panasonic's S lenses as over-priced compared to the competition, so it's not a surprise.

I could imagine that all 3 alliance founders segment the market to price their products. Leica at the top end, Panasonic below that with a focus on videography, Sigma as the allrounder with focus on photography. Thanks to the distinction between Art and non-Art lenses Sigma is able to offer products in almost every price category and with the invenstion of the i-series even in the way how a lens should look and feel while using it.

But Sigma will IMHO no offer anymore everything for the cheapest price. They do not have to anymore. For this there are other options available nowadays with third party lens makers.

I find all brands (also Nikon, Sony, Canon etc.) overpriced compared to 10-20 years ago. Lens design has become more easy thanks to computer power and production quality control, its nowadays cheaper since many things are now corrected in FW. instead of a complicated lens design etc. pp.

But this is the name of the game, if less people buy cameras. You need to increase the margin to make enough profit with less sales than before.

 

[Nomad Nate]

I'd actually love to see sigma release some more bodies. I feel like they really push the envelope with interesting camera bodies.

 

[Nevyn72]

I'd actually love to see sigma release some more bodies. I feel like they really push the envelope with interesting camera bodies.

I would also love to see that DJI releases more bodies, they have the Ronin 4D-6K and 8K bodies, and they support L-mount lenses, but it's much too expensive, heavy and niche for me.

The same with Blackmagic, they have 1 L-mount camera now, but more, also with autofocus would be good.

 

[Quentinquirelino]

L-Mount definately don't cover every nish at the current stage. But so doesn't every other system out there. I think about 90 % of photographers and videographers will find everything they need.

I don't think it's at all true to say there are almost no gaps in the L-mount lens line-up. Just off the top of my head:

28mm, 40mm, 135mm and 200mm primes
Long telephoto primes
Compact lenses - there isn't a single one I would class as compact
Cheaper lenses to bring in new people (hopefully on the way from Samyang)
A super-zoom that starts at 24mm
f/4 zooms (24-70mm, 70-200mm...) from Sigma which would be much cheaper than Panasonic versions

As for cheaper. entry-level bodies, I think the fP is the only one and it's cheaper than a lot of APS-C models for other mounts. It's far from ideal but it's there. I think Panasonic could produce a cheaper FF model though, essentially a cut-down S5, which would be about the same price as the fP but less limited.

I agree that the 28-200mm is over-priced, but then I regard almost all Panasonic's S lenses as over-priced compared to the competition, so it's not a surprise.

You could write similar things about every other system out there.
Nikon and Canon didn't have any standard zoom down to 20mm. Canon has almost no midrange Lens. You can argue about some older Sony lenses and that the 20-70 is much overpriced compared to the 20-60 from Panasonic. You can't find such a small macro or such a small travel Zoom in an other system.

I think compact lenses or cheaper alternatives would be a welcome addition. But I think long telephoto primes are very nishe and are not necessary for more than 95 % of photographers and even less for videographers. I can see the gap for 28mm and 135mm lenses, however there are not the most important lenses for most. That's probably the reason why Panasonic or Sigma didn't release those primes jet.

The L-Mount doesn't cover every nishe, but it has everything for most photographers and videographers. But maybe for specific needs other system have better options.

 

[Nomad Nate]

L-Mount definately don't cover every nish at the current stage. But so doesn't every other system out there. I think about 90 % of photographers and videographers will find everything they need.

You could write similar things about every other system out there.
Nikon and Canon didn't have any standard zoom down to 20mm. Canon has almost no midrange Lens. You can argue about some older Sony lenses and that the 20-70 is much overpriced compared to the 20-60 from Panasonic. You can't find such a small macro or such a small travel Zoom in an other system.

I think compact lenses or cheaper alternatives would be a welcome addition. But I think long telephoto primes are very nishe and are not necessary for more than 95 % of photographers and even less for videographers. I can see the gap for 28mm and 135mm lenses, however there are not the most important lenses for most. That's probably the reason why Panasonic or Sigma didn't release those primes jet.

The L-Mount doesn't cover every nishe, but it has everything for most photographers and videographers. But maybe for specific needs other system have better options.

This is a big reason I left Canon. They intentionally create two product lines. The severely pared down budget glass and the very expensive "pro" glass. I love that Lumix glass no matter the tier all comes with weather sealing, in-body profiles, and focus breathing optimized as the standard. Whereas if I'm a canon shooter, and I want to take my camera body and lens out in the elements - I am forced to get an L series lens. Of course, if there were a middle of the road option that had weather sealing, ois, etc. - your enthusiast crowd would readily go for that instead of the L. That's why they won't offer it. It's really obnoxious.

 

[pdk42]

The obvious missing thing is a tilt and shift lens.

 

[dirk]

The obvious missing thing is a tilt and shift lens.

Very good point. It must have been one or two decades ago since a brand designed a new tilt and shift lens.

Neither Sony nor Nikon have one. There is a Rokinon 24mm f/3.5 Tilt-Shift lens, which seems to be identical with the Samyang version. This could be therefore something in the pipeline for L-Mount too.

Canon has a 24mm 3,5 TS-E L, but for their old mount, not for mirrorless. Strange that no brand is offering something for their mirrorless mounts. Maybe they try to wait what software can do over the next years.

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

I, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, disregard Leica lenses due to their ridiculous cost and the Sigma lenses which are not DG DN (ie the ones which are really DSLR lenses with an adapter built into them) from the L-mount line-up. I would never buy either, Leica because of the cost and the Sigmas because of their clumsiness, unnecessary bulk and that you could achieve basically the same with more flexibility buying the EF version and using an adapter.

I missed another important lens that is missing from the L-mount: a 50 or 55mm macro lens. I have a 35mm 1:1 macro for use on Pentax APS-C and it's wonderful and incredibly useful. I'd love to see one for the L-mount.

 

[dirk]

I created an extra thread for our "lens-wish-list" to be able to collect better your feedback:

Which lenses are you missing?

We had in other threads interesting discussions about the current lens line up for L-Mount (around 80 lenses from Sigma, Leica and Panasonic) and what lenses might be interesting to produce. I do think it is worth an extra thread to collect the feedback of the L-Mount community. Obviously this...

l-mount-forum.com

 

[MattGeo399]

I think 2.000$ is too high to be competitive with a Nikon Z5 kit et alii

I wonder if they will keep the original S5 in production and lower its price. It's usually only a few hundreds cheaper than the S5II, but right now at B&H they are throwing in a free 24-105mm lens! You can get the S5, 20-60, 85, and 24-105 all for about $2,100. That's a deal!

 

[dirk]

right now at B&H they are throwing in a free 24-105mm lens! You can get the S5, 20-60, 85, and 24-105 all for about $2,100. That's a deal!

Wow!

That is really an offer you can not neglect.

This is a very good idea to seduce new users into the L-Mount system, who hesitated in the past because of the high prices. In Germany we do not have these promotions unfortunately.

The S5 is still a great camera. The sensor is the same as the S5II. At keast I can not detect a difference. And in 90% of the cases you will not need the improvements of the S5II. Me at least I would not be sad if I would have to go in vacation "only" with the S5.

If they can bring down an S5 & 20-60 zoom as a kit price to 999 USD without more lenses or S5 & 24-105 for 1299 USD, that would challenge the competition and bring many new customers.

It is all about locking new users into a lens mount. Once they started with a system, they will not switch that easy anymore. So seduce them, even if you do not have a margin on it and sell them then more lenses later on. This is a war about market share. Canon did that very good in 2003 with the Canon 300D.

 

[dirk]

 

[pdk42]

Interesting. A somewhat less favourable review in terms of IQ compared to most others.

 

[CharlesH]

Interesting. A somewhat less favourable review in terms of IQ compared to most others.

Agree. Especially if we are expecting a higher pixel count Panasonic coming along.

 

[dirk]

Agree. Especially if we are expecting a higher pixel count Panasonic coming along.

I do not think that owners of cameras with more than 24 MP is the target group of that all in one zoom.

 

[pdk42]

I do not think that owners of cameras with more than 24 MP is the target group of that all in one zoom.

Well, I think if the lens is good enough optically than landscape shooters would be interested.

As it is, I'm cooling on this lens following that Jordan/Chris review. The sharpness fall off is bad enough, but the flare is really pretty ugly. I often shoot into the light so this is a big deal.

 

[pdk42]

@Richard Wong - what's your take on that Jordan/Chris video? Your analysis was notably more positive.

I really need to see some raw files for myself I think before I make any decisions.

 

[CharlesH]

As it is, I'm cooling on this lens following that Jordan/Chris review.

Same here. The 20-60mm is so good, I was expecting much of the same from 28-200mm.

 

[Pete_W]

I think you have to take the comments made by Chris on balance rather than focus on the negatives. In every lens review he is always very specific and critical about sharpness in the corners, flare, LOCA, and sun stars. He has to be accurate.

But he was also quite complimentary about the lens, and both he and Jordan mentioned it was a hybrid lens which means some compromises but that it worked well for video.

I remember the review he did on the LUMIX S 70-300mm lens. Based on that review I nearly didn't buy it. I went away and watched as many other reviews as I could. His review was the most negative of the lot, and that may have been down to copy variation. I bought the lens and have been delighted with it.

If you've only watched the review once, watch it again. As Chris said, it does exactly what it was intended to do. And he said "Panasonic have delivered a really nice product". There are compromises for sure, but if you removed those compromises then the lens would be bigger and heaver and cost more.

I am not at all concerned about the sun stars, I can work around the flare, and I generally shoot at f/8 to f/11. I have faster prime lenses in my kit if I need them for specific low light situations. I will be fighting GAS and probably give in and get it.

 

[pdk42]

Yes Pete, I remember that review of the 70-300 by Jordan and Chris. It was a real outlier and doesn’t reflect my experience with the copy I have now. But I suspect their poor result was down to copy variation- I have my own story on that problem with this lens.

The 28-200 does really tempt me. I like to have a 14-200 range when out doing landscape shooting so this lens plus the 14-28 (which I’m very happy with) would be perfect. The max aperture doesn’t bother me at all since I’ll be shooting at f8 or f11 anyhow. However, it has to perform. It needs to be sharp into the corners at f8 and flare needs to be controlled. But I’m not totally convinced about that now. Looking once again at the YT reviews that @Richard Wong did, I can see that corner performance isn’t great. It’s certainly not bad, but I’m not prepared to compromise with sub par sharpness given the time and money I invest in photography.

So, I need to either see some sample raws or do my own testing I think. I can’t find any full-res samples with the 28-200, raw or jpeg, which is a bit odd since some of the early 14-28 reviews did have samples.