Gerald Undone's video about the state of the review industry

[Markuswelder]

I moved all postings regarding Gerald's video in this thread.

I'm kind of reminded why I liked manual film cameras... The simplicity

For sure. There's way more to a camera than technical specifications on a spec sheet. Sometimes, you just gel with them, because they're just plain good fun to use. My G100's are like that. Simple, small, unassuming, inexpensive, but they just work for me.
The S5 mk1 is another. Sure, it's more expensive, and more technical, but it simply appeals to me 1000x more than the last 35mm format camera I owned -the Canon 6D. I haven't even scratched the surface of what it can do, as far as features, video capabilities, things like live composite, or anything like that, I simply pick it up, and use it like most people use their smart phones.
The vast majority of reviewers have lost sight of that. And turned it into a competition, as to what's the "best" And taking themselves so seriously, they're disappearing up their own @rses. It's getting ridiculous, to the point of the tail wagging the dog. Look at that Gerald undone bloke (who I used to think was half smart) making the video about the S9 release. Basically telling the manufacturers that they're (the reviewers) are more important than them. It's a bad joke. And worst of all, so many halfwit -that's probably a bit generous, more like quarterwits, on certain forums are lapping it all up. It's absurd. Totally. Panasonic has stepped up and made tool that is bright and cheerful, fun to use, un-intimidating and very capable, and are getting crucified for it. And the reviewers have the gall to try and tell the manufacturers what the consumers want. Oh please. At least be honest about it, and tell them it's all about your own little wishlist. They make me sick. Spouting on about ethics and integrity and so on.

 

[xaviergut]

Look at that Gerald undone bloke (who I used to think was half smart) making the video about the S9 release. Basically telling the manufacturers that they're (the reviewers) are more important than them.

I saw that video yesterday and it seemed a bit contradictory to me.

Gerald Undone says he doesn't usually go to camera launch events, like the one Lumix held in Osaka for S9, because he doesn't want to feel manipulated or obligated to make videos about the camera in such a short amount of time, and When he does go, he spends his time talking to other YouTubers or engineers.

But then he complains that they didn't invite him this time

 

[Markuswelder]

But then he complains that they didn't invite him this time

The thing that I don't understand, is that he complains about being "punished" by Panasonic, yet tells us that they had the decency to contact him, and explain why they didn't invite him -for the very reasons he explains in his own video, yet he's still upset about it, and felt the need to make the video and release it at launch, simply to run the company down. WTF? How could they be any more open and honest about it?
That, to me, is just pure vindictiveness. Who is he to demand that manufacturers cease to have product launch events, just because he doesn't like them? All under the guise of "protecting the consumer" of course. It's utterly absurd

 

[AlanC]

Gerald Undone says he doesn't usually go to camera launch events, like the one Lumix held in Osaka for S9, because he doesn't want to feel manipulated or obligated to make videos about the camera in such a short amount of time,

Who is he to demand that manufacturers cease to have product launch events, just because he doesn't like them?

Easily solved: he can wait until the camera is in production and available from a company such as Lensrentals, hire it for a couple of weeks, and create his review free from any influence by the manufacturer.

I wonder why he doesn't do that?

 

[xaviergut]

create his review free from any influence by the manufacturer.

Yes, it is strange. I like his reviews and I am subscribed to his YT channel. But, I have seen about 8/10 videos of youtubers that were invited to Osaka by Lumix. ALL OF THEM explain the limitations of the S9 in comparison to the S5II.

The thing is how they explain this limitations: for example, you can explain that there is a time limit record because the camera has no fan, and the camera has no fan because they wanted to make a small and portable camera.

Or you can explain that the camera has no EVF because the target group, young content creators, are used to make videos with their smatphones/Iphones (they don't even know what is a EVF), and this way the camera is still small.

The same with the headphone jack (I have neve seen a vlogger using headphones).

But they explain the positive things of this camera too (IBIS, LUTS, PDAF, Videos specs).

I don't presume that all these youtubers are biased because they were invited. They are objective. It is about their reputation and credibility and they know it.

 

[dirk]

Please watch Geralds review again. I think he has a fair point about the psychological behaviour with such events. He is not complaining about Panasonic only per se, but about how the industry atm works with youtube videos reviewers and he has a fair point with it.

I think many people just do not see/listen to what he is saying but what they interprete what they think what he is saying. This is getting too emotional instead of thinking about it and what could be improved.

 

[Markuswelder]

I think many people just do not see/listen to what he is saying but what they interprete what they think what he is saying.

So what is he saying?
Reading between the lines, you can only go to a product launch as long as you only sit around talking to other Youtubers, don't write positive things about the product, and perhaps take a few depressants so you don't inadvertently get excited over the product. All after being paid your travel, accommodation and food expenses. Sounds like a fair deal to me. Not.

 

[xaviergut]

how the industry atm works with youtube videos reviewers and he has a fair point with it.

I don't know, maybe Gerald is questioning how Lumix's marketing department is trying to create a "hype product" by inviting dozens of YouTubers to make videos on YouTube and if that's going to work...

Everything else is probably superfluous as Markuswelder says, I mean his complaints about not having been invited, etc.

 

[dirk]

Regarding Gerald's Video about the state of the industry. Maybe we should move this into its own thread.

I think many people are mixing things with each other while watching this video.

Regarding Panasonic:

He complained about how Panasonic treated him in the past in the wrong way, because of a misunderstood title of one of his reviews. The review itself was positive, but it seems according to him, that the title mislead someone in the Panasonic management to think it was bad.

As a consequence, Panasonic did not invite him last year for the S5ii event. This was Geralds only complain against Panasonic in that video.

Panasonic did tell him this year, that they would invite him, but they think that the S9 would be not a camera he would be interested in. That is a fair point and understandable. He did not complain about that.

Geralds mistake in that video was, that he brought that up in the same video as the other stuff, so people now think he would be pissed even today about the treatment of last year.

Regarding the message he wanted to get through:

The photo (and every other) industry has a problem with YouTube reviewers and the YT reviewers have problems with the industry, if they are not very experienced already.

The problem is in the system itself, no matter which industry.

In the photo industry, it was always like that. Media was invited to nice events with entertainment etc. to show and testdrive new products. This is since 40 years like that.

It was already with print media like that. There is nothing new with this. All brands are doing it. The most is Sony doing in this regard by the way.

What changed is the way media nowadays works. We have now Internet. Print media is not important anymore. In the old times, print media was invited and all costs were covered, BUT they could technically not publish immediately the review. They flew home, took their time to write the review, probably still testing the camera at home and after 4 weeks or whenever the deadline for the next print of a monthly (!) magazine was, they published the review.

Today that does not work anymore, because you can publish in real time on the internet. But only because you can theoretically publish immediately, it might be not a good idea to do it as fast.

And this is the point of Gerald. He addresses this specifically to the newer YouTubers, who fell on a event like this under pressure to publish immediately. Gerald just advises, to take your time for the review.

Even better, wait until you get a final review example with the final FW version. He mentioned Fuji as an example, who does not send out pre-production models anymore, because of these bad experiences Fuji made with youtubers, if they get products with pre-final FW on it.

So Gerald tries to make all viewers aware, that this is a very difficult situation for all reviewers and the brands at the same time and because of this, the audience will not always get the best reviews to make a buying decision if we continue to focus only on speed to publish a review.

He sais the whole industry has to think about a solution for this inherent problem. We have now the internet, we have now YT reviewers. We have all possibilities to make great reviews. We just have to think about the best compromise between speed and quality. At the moment, we risk more and more to loose the quality, because the speed is getting faster and faster.

I agree with him on that point.

Look at it this way: We are here in a discussion forum .We watch together different reviews and discus about them. We take our time with this. This is a huge benefit, because thanks to the discussion here, we have more time to hear different arguments, think about them and maybe change our opinion about a product.

But if someone watches only a YT review, without having these discussions, he is risking to make the wrong decision for him because of a suboptimal review he was seeing.

 

[dirk]

This is the video by the way, in case you have not seen it yet. The title is "camera reviews need to change"

 

[Pete_W]

The thing that I don't understand, is that he complains about being "punished" by Panasonic, yet tells us that they had the decency to contact him, and explain why they didn't invite him -for the very reasons he explains in his own video, yet he's still upset about it, and felt the need to make the video and release it at launch, simply to run the company down. WTF? How could they be any more open and honest about it?
That, to me, is just pure vindictiveness. Who is he to demand that manufacturers cease to have product launch events, just because he doesn't like them? All under the guise of "protecting the consumer" of course. It's utterly absurd

Yes, nailed it. I think he's upset that he doesn't have the power he thought he had as an "influencer". He even implied that he favours Sony because they seem to listen to him. Sounds like they've cleverly co-opted him more like it.

Gerald can be a bit click-baity to get views and this has backfired on him. If was more balanced and journalistic in his approach like Gordon Laing or Richard Wong, he'd be more likely to get an invitation.

 

[dirk]

He even implied that he favours Sony because they seem to listen to him

No, that is not true. Please watch the video agin. Minute 17:50. He sais that he likes Sony because

a) they accept that he will go to their events without publishing immediately a review about the product and

b) Sony still sends him cameras although he critises a lot on their cameras in his reviews.

 

[Pete_W]

No, that is not true. Please watch the video agin. He sais that he likes Sony because

a) they accept that he will go to their events without publishing immediately a review about the product and

b) Sony still sends him cameras although he critises a lot on their cameras in his reviews.

I did listen to the section on Sony again (it starts at 17:46) and he clearly says:
"If I have bias towards Sony, I think it's because of that", meaning that he admits a bias in favour of Sony because he levels some criticism (as well as praise) and does not get punished for the criticism. He finished by saying "that just keeps making me more a fan of the brand".

That's bias, pure and simple. A true reporter/journalist will report the facts and should not hold any bias or be a fan, regardless of how the subject (company) responds. He's taking it personally. I understand why, but why should anyone trust his reviews if he admits bias?

Edit: I've seen that Gordon Laing and Shane (Geeky Nerdy Techy) have both responded in the comments on Gerald's video. They're not happy.

 

[Markuswelder]

And this is the point of Gerald. He addresses this specifically to the newer YouTubers, who fell on a event like this under pressure to publish immediately. Gerald just advises, to take your time for the review.

Then as a YouTube reviewer/talking head, he's really really really sh!t at his job, if it takes a near half hour video, to make a point that can be expressed in a single sentence or two. There was far far more at play there, than that.

Edit -perhaps he should take his own advice, and wait a while before releasing his own video. But no, then it would lose a lot of its impact, and lose him views. Hypocrisy at its finest

 

[pdk42]

Please watch Geralds review again. I think he has a fair point about the psychological behaviour with such events. He is not complaining about Panasonic only per se, but about how the industry atm works with youtube videos reviewers and he has a fair point with it.

I think many people just do not see/listen to what he is saying but what they interprete what they think what he is saying. This is getting too emotional instead of thinking about it and what could be improved.

I agree Dirk. I thought his comments were reasonable and balanced.

This modern approach to marketing of flying a bunch of YT personalities to a launch event at the company’s expense is absolutely guaranteed to :

- Provide a lot of reviews all published at the same time.
- Generally provide more positive reviews than might otherwise be the case.

You can see this in spades with the S9 review. Despite its very obvious shortcomings, virtually all the reviews brush this under the carpet and present generally positive opinions on it.

Remember, these events are all set up by the manufacturers to generate the most noise, the most positive reception, and the most likely environment for us to buy!

 

[Markuswelder]

You can see this in spades with the S9 review. Despite its very obvious shortcomings, virtually all the reviews brush this under the carpet and present generally positive opinions on it.

You really need to get out more. This reviewer never went, yet managed to make a perfectly balanced review of the camera, mentioning all the compromises. Because that's exactly what this camera is. Some people seem to have this unrealistic, magical idea of what's actually possible. Not this guy. Edit -I might be wrong there, going by the photos he posted, but it does look like he waited until he got home before posting. If he did go that is

 

[pdk42]

You really need to get out more. This reviewer never went, yet managed to make a perfectly balanced review of the camera, mentioning all the compromises. Because that's exactly what this camera is. Some people seem to have this unrealistic, magical idea of what's actually possible. Not this guy

How did he get hold of a camera if he didn’t go?

Oh, and please, let’s try to be civil. No need for “you really need to get out more”.

 

[Markuswelder]

How did he get hold of a camera if he didn’t go?

I edited my post while you were posting. But it's quite obvious that he had the camera well before the launch event in Japan. So that blows Geralds "spur of the moment" argument clean out of the water. He's even criticized Panasonic a number of times previously in regards to DFD. Yet still got a hold of the camera. Why do you think that is?

 

[dirk]

He's taking it personally. I understand why, but why should anyone trust his reviews if he admits bias?

Every reviewer takes something like this personal. We are human beings and this is a normal reaction.

But professional reviewers try to stay objective nevertheless. This is what Gerald is doing. He stays professional. He even has the balls to make a video about the conflict of interest reviewers have on a daily basis.

You can still trust his reviews. Also his future reviews will be objective. But as he said, it is more enjoyable to make reviews for a brand, if he can say out loud what he thinks about it.

He just explains the phsychological effects for a reviewer if companies act in a specific way. His Sony reviews will not get better ratings because of this as he clearly said.

I think it is very honest of him to say out loud, what all reviewers think. I do not care what other reviewers publicly write to this. There is a conflict of interest for every reviewer. That is part of their job and they have to deal with it. If you put your feet in their shows, you would be in the same psychological situation.

Just by pointing the finger on this problem does not make you less trustworthy.

He is the messenger. Do not shoot the messenger.

 

[pdk42]

. Yet still got a hold of the camera. Why do you think that is?

I don’t know the circumstances at all. I hadn’t even heard of this guy until you posted the link to his S9 review. But his YT video included scenes from Osaka so if he didn’t take them himself I guess he’s using material from someone who did go. Either way, it’s clear he has an existing relationship with Panasonic.