Gerald Undone's video about the state of the review industry

[Markuswelder]

I just finished that video. It is really very interesting. All 3 different parts.

And there might be a rumor bomb exploding there too.

But one step after the other....

This is a live stream which was made a few minutes before Gerald published his own video.

It seems that there was on social media a very vivid discussions about things Gerald Undone said about the state of product reviews in general. Again, this social media discussion was days before he published his video and before this livestream and his video was basically meant as an answer to all that questions and discussion in his social media channels.

Back to the live stream. First part and first guest is Gerald Undone. That interview takes around 72 minutes. Very interesting.

At around 1:12 another YouTuber is interviewed, who was at the S9 event in Tokyo. Other YouTubers who attended also Tokyo this year have been als in that live chat by the way. He talked about what most YouTubers thought during the presentation. At around 1:30 he sais that this Tokyo event was probably (his guess) not planned for the S9, but for a different camera. Who knows what Panasonic forced to change plans and products presented in Tokyo... I am sure the rumor mills will start now...

The third part is an interview with a YouTuber who covers everything about BlackMagick Design products. That starts at 1:39.

A really interesting live stream and all 3 interviews are really worth watching. Do not miss that.

I watched about 1/2 an hour of the actual Gerald interview. Before nodding off. He still can't say, in black & white, what the actual issues are with product releases, or what specific things being reported are actually dishonest. It's a fishing expedition, nothing more, nothing less. Hopefully, it bites him fair & square on the @rse

 

[dirk]

Here the same... But as long they dont fix the recording time to at least 30 minutes I can resist the GAS.

There is nothing broken. Panasonic is one of the few or the only one, who guarantees a flawless recording time at 40 Degree Celsius if you use their cameras for video. For the S9, Panasonic set that limit to a specific time (varies with the recording quality). You can stop and restart immediately again at your own will.

If Panasonic should change that in a future FW update, we will have probably a similar situation as with all Sony cameras. After a certain time, they do overheat and the internet world will be upset about that overheating.

If you need longer times without hitting again the record button, don' use such a small camera without fan. You need to buy another S5ii.

 

[dirk]

I watched about 1/2 an hour of the actual Gerald interview. Before nodding off. He still can't say, in black & white, what the actual issues are with product releases, or what specific things being reported are actually dishonest. It's a fishing expedition, nothing more, nothing less. Hopefully, it bites him fair & square on the @rse

With all respect, I have the feeling we watched a different video. If you want to have all the littel details, you need to read his social media channels where it all started. Long before his video

You should watch the video to the end, because other YouTubers agree to the points and explain their view about it.

The S9 is not the issue. Everyone is riding on the S9 and the Tokyo event, and overseeing the real issue. It was just a catalyst. Panasonic did not do anything wrong with that event.

 

[Markuswelder]

With all respect, I have the feeling we watched a different video.

Perhaps you can shed some light on it for us then. Who, exactly, reported dishonest findings,, and what exactly were they? What dishonest things were said/written?

 

[dirk]

Perhaps you can shed some light on it for us then. Who, exactly, reported dishonest findings,, and what exactly were they? What dishonest things were said/written?

Noone reported dishonest reviews. I think you are searching for something Gerald did not say. I am not his advocate. I just look at the big picture regarding potential conflict of interests, as soon as you review something.

Again, watch the video without beeing biased to a side or to search for something bad. It is a problem in every industry and in that video each YouTuber explains how they handle it on their channel.

 

[Markuswelder]

Noone reported dishonest reviews. I think you are searching for something Gerald did not say. I am not his advocate. I just look at the big picture regarding potential conflict of interests, as soon as you review something.

Again, watch the video without beeing biased to a side or to search for something bad. It is a problem in every industry and in that video each YouTuber explains how they handle it on their channel.

As I wrote, I watched 1/2 an hour of the vid. The most incriminating thing he could come up with, was that watching it as an average Joe, something felt "off" Oh please. Spare us the histrionics. For someone who is so technical and precise in his reviewing, that's a p!$$ poor effort however you want to look at it.
The most incriminating and eye opening thing I saw, was that he accidentally exposed his true motivation, when he slipped up and admitted he was angry about not being invited. Before quickly trying to correct himself. You might want to reconsider who is trying to see things that aren't there. It's certainly not me in this instance.
But, obviously it was just all pure coincidence that he released his video right around the time the S9 embargo ended. Ha ha ha ha. Have I got a bridge to sell you.

 

[Richard Wong]

At around 1:12 another YouTuber is interviewed, who was at the S9 event in Tokyo. Other YouTubers who attended also Tokyo this year have been als in that live chat by the way. He talked about what most YouTubers thought during the presentation. At around 1:30 he sais that this Tokyo event was probably (his guess) not planned for the S9, but for a different camera. Who knows what Panasonic forced to change plans and products presented in Tokyo... I am sure the rumor mills will start now...

I can't say too much, but I can tell you that's 100% not true at all.

 

[dirk]

@Markuswelder

I guess we agree to disagree on this

 

[Markuswelder]

@Markuswelder

I guess we agree to disagree on this

Absolutely. And there's no harm in that.

 

[xaviergut]

I think I am done with Gerald Undone... hahahaha

 

[pdk42]

After re-reading this, I have no idea what you're on about. Or which reviews you're watching/reading. Every single review I've read/watched from the launch so far, has openly and honestly discussed the pros and cons of the camera. No flash, check. No EVF, check. No mechanical shutter, check. I think it was Emily from micro four nerds that even showed a workaround for that, with banding. Should that not be allowed, for being too positive? So where are the cover ups?

I'm not saying there's some cover-up or conspiracy. What I'm saying is that the majority of reviews so far are clearly done by a group of influencers who composed their reviews whilst basking in the warmth of Panasonic hospitality; and as a consequence, those reviews generally build a positive narrative about the camera despite its obvious shortcomings/omissions. That's exactly the point that Gerald Undone was making. The all-expenses-paid invite to a swanky event in a glamorous location with the added pressure of an embargo release date that coincides with you quaffing drinks with the Panasonic marketing executives is almost guaranteed to give biased reviews. That's why Panasonic do it. It was the same with the S5ii. There were reviews then stating that the S5ii was head and shoulders above the competitors. Clearly that's not true (but the S5ii is indeed a very good camera).

If you asked me, everyone so far has gone out of their way to point out possible issues for different users, and suggest various alternatives to the S9 should it not be suitable for purpose

To some degree, I agree. I guess we all need to form our own opinions about the camera. I've formed mine and it's not for me.

 

[pdk42]

Gerald Undone is widely known for his in depth reviews. He is a tech enthusiast, who tests cameras on a level you will not find a lot out there. He has over 400.000 subscribers and is with this among the top 5% (my guess) of the most influentual youtube reviewers for the photo industry.

I was referring to "The Hybrid Shooter" that @Markuswelder linked to in post #16

 

[pdk42]

I have no idea what you're on about.

I've been on this forum for about a year now and only twice in that time have I read posts that I thought were borderline rude; and both of them are from you. Yesterday you suggested that I "should get out more", and now you are saying you "have no idea what I'm on about". I don't know whether you're a native English speaker or not (and if you're not, massive kudos to you for the superb quality of what you write), but if you are you must be aware that this phrasing is not the best way to win friends and influence people. Can I ask that you try to be a bit more friendly?

 

[Nevyn72]

To be honest, I have enough of the drama. This is my last message (and I think my first?) in this thread.
Although Gerard has done good reviews, he is always a very technical minded person.

I understand he has Asperger, and there is not wrong with that because a lot of people who I know have Asperger, including probably myself (and my wife and daughter are diagnosed with Autism, as many in our family), but often people with Asperger are very black/white thinking, where of course the reality is never black or white (I found out the hard way in life).

Technically the S9 has flaws, like every other camera BUT I understand this is camera with is a joy to use, and does many things very well.

It might not be a camera for me (I'm not sure yet), but for many many other people in other places in the world, and for the young in this world it is a very appetizing camera.
For how many? Panasonic is going to find out but like many Camera-Youtubers said, their where many vloggers on that trip who are not standard videographers/photographers and they like the camera a lot more.

And remember that the @Richard Wong , Gordon from cameralabs, Kai and even they guys from Petapixel liked the camera a lot, even when it didn't have all the specs what the normally expect (Mechanic Shutter, 4K/10bit > 15 min, EVF).

None of the Youtubers didn't talk about the negativities, there are also quite some hard roasts from them about some om the things (Check the PetaPixel review & podcast, but especially the roast from Kai about the 26mm pancake). I found than also almost all reviews what I saw fair, from their own point-of-view. And a in-depth review from @Richard Wong for example, where almost everything is touched of the camera can never seen in a way as how Gerard it portraited in his rant.

Yes I know that he didn't mean bad to all the vloggers, he just had to say what he felt as what is honest (A person with Asperger feels this really strong), but the backless of his rant is everywhere. People talk negatively about youtubers, Panasonic, Sony (Gerard is very Sony minded, even that he also quite ranted about the Buruno).

Guys this is meant as a hobby, especially the S9 is meant to be fun, and nothing else. Nobody is going get hurt about buying, or not buying the S9.

I see you guys in the interesting threads about the L-mount Camera's and Lenses, and will awe at the spectacular photos about 'Chiaroscuro'.
I would say, go out and make nice pictures for the challenge, you still have a few days before the challenge closes.

That are my 5 cents about this 'Gerald Drama', see you in the next thread!

 

[Markuswelder]

To some degree, I agree. I guess we all need to form our own opinions about the camera. I've formed mine and it's not for me.

And it's not for me either. But, that does not mean that I have to find everything "wrong" with it that I can, and classify it as a huge mistake on Panasonic's part, just because it doesn't suit me. I'm neither qualified to say that, nor am I in a position where I can even pretend to have an idea of the potential customer base. It is what it is, if it disappears in a year, then I guess that'll tell the story.

And sorry, but I'll say it again, but I really have no clue what yourself and self appointed detractors are on about. Is it in some way morally unethical to give something a little bit of praise, for things that it may actually be good at? If so, it's a pretty sad, negative and depressing outlook you have on life.

Edit -and it's also pretty sad that people can jump on a soapbox, vilify not only a company, but also other individuals who are doing nothing more than making a living, with no more evidence against them, than a "feeling something's off"
Now run along, and get me banned, for stating a few facts.

 

[pdk42]

And sorry, but I'll say it again, but I really have no clue what yourself and self appointed detractors are on about.

You know, by lumping me in with "self appointed detractors" you just come across as unnecessarily engaged in making personal attacks. I have zero problems with people's opinions and would defend anyone's right to express them. But they just don't need to be personal.

 

[pdk42]

If so, it's a pretty sad, negative and depressing outlook you have on life.

And here we go again - accusing me of having a "negative and depressing outlook" on life. You know zero about me. How dare you accuse me of that? Have I made any personal criticisms of you? You wouldn't dare say these things to my face I'm sure, so why do it here?

 

[Quentinquirelino]

I'm not saying there's some cover-up or conspiracy. What I'm saying is that the majority of reviews so far are clearly done by a group of influencers who composed their reviews whilst basking in the warmth of Panasonic hospitality; and as a consequence, those reviews generally build a positive narrative about the camera despite its obvious shortcomings/omissions. That's exactly the point that Gerald Undone was making.

Yes, but the hole propose of such events is marketing for the camera. That's nothing new. Of course Panasonic selects influencers who they think are beneficial for marketing and build a more positive narrative around the camera. And yet, there are some more balanced reviews and some influencers got invited despite criticising LUMIX cameras in the past, even heavier than Gerald did.

But I still don't get his point. He haven't had a problem with it as long as he was invited to those events from Panasonic and he probably wouldn't ever had said anything if he had got invited to this event. He probably even wouldn't have made a review for the S9, even if he had got invited because he also said he isn't interested in the camera and he don't want to make reviews on stuff he isn't interested in.

Of course, nobody should buy a camera purely on such reviews as nobody should buy a care based on car tv shows. But the main drawbacks of the S9 are quite obvious.

 

[pdk42]

Yes, but the hole propose of such events is marketing for the camera. That's nothing new. Of course Panasonic selects influencers who they think are beneficial for marketing and build a more positive narrative around the camera. And yet, there are some more balanced reviews and some influencers got invited despite criticising LUMIX cameras in the past, even heavier than Gerald did.

Yes, I agree with all of that.

But I still don't get his point. He haven't had a problem with it as long as he was invited to those events from Panasonic and he probably wouldn't ever had said anything if he had got invited to this event. He probably even wouldn't have made a review for the S9, even if he had got invited because he also said he isn't interested in the camera and he don't want to make reviews on stuff he isn't interested in.

I think the problem is that he tried to make too many points in that video. It's way too long and it rambles a bit. He also conflated the general point about how these sort of marketing extravaganzas distort the impartiality of reviews with various personal moans about Panasonic etc.

Of course, nobody should buy a camera purely on such reviews as nobody should buy a care based on car tv shows. But the main drawbacks of the S9 are quite obvious.

Yes, totally agree.


Overall though, I really don't feel hugely invested in the argument. I'll simply treat these early reviews in a somewhat sceptical light.

 

[dirk]

@Markuswelder

Please calm down. We are all adults here and know how to behave. We do not want to have a discussion culture like at dpreview here. Thanks.

@all

I have the impression the whole story is bigger than I or we thought and the starting point seems not to be the video of Gerald. I thought at the beginning this was all about his video. But I was obviously wrong.

I do not know yet, on which social media channel this rant about YouTube Reviewers started, but it seems to me that this rant started way earlier and with other YouTubers too, before Gerald even decided to make a video about it.

Watch the following video. It is a bit "unusual" but it shows clearly, that there is a lot of emotions from the subscriber side of YouTubers against the YouTubers who where in Japan.

Obviously people forget that almost every brand is doing such events and in all industries, not just photography and not just for YouTubers.



Maybe I should change the title of this thread. I do not know yet. But Geralds video is obviously only a reaction on what was and still is going on regarding hate and envy against YouTube reviewers. I do not have the tine to dig deeper, but if you listen to what TerryWarfield is saying in the above video, it is clear that something gets out of control with some video-viewers and their way of thinking and acting in comments below Reviews and on social media channels of the reviewers. I am shocked about this behaviour. We are homo sapiens, not animals.

I have nothing about a good and intense discussion and not everybody has to have the same opinion, but there is a red line which should not be crossed. In the old times we called this "netiquette". As we can see again, social media is able to show the worst of human behaviour and nobody can control it.

P.S: People try to badmouth Panasonic on social media for a marketing event, which is nothing special in the industry. All brands are doing this. There is nothing bad about it per se. If people do not understand how marketing works since 2000 years, they should not complain about it. Either they are naiv or jealous or both. Just my 2 cents.