What’s on the Horizon for LUMIX?

[Pete_W]

Matthew Dangyou (a creator who uses LUMIX gear) has a YouTube channel and he's just posted an interview he had recently with Panasonic's Sean Robinson.

I enjoyed it, so am posting a link here in case anyone is interested.

 

[xaviergut]

It is interesting. I saw some parts of it. I am sorry to say it, but my impresion with Sean is that he says all the time "Lumix listen to the customers" and they end up doing things that nobody understands. I mean some products, not all of them. So they have to invest a lot of effort explaining to the customers the idea behind those products. I don't know...

 

[pdk42]

I really can't be doing with a 45min ramble that almost certainly will reveal no new news - but I did dip into in a few places. One phrase I heard Sean say was "99% of the time I'm shooting JPEGs". Hmm - how can someone who shoots JPEG stills (and probably lots of video) have the faintest idea of what I need?

 

[Nevyn72]

I really can't be doing with a 45min ramble that almost certainly will reveal no new news - but I did dip into in a few places. One phrase I heard Sean say was "99% of the time I'm shooting JPEGs". Hmm - how can someone who shoots JPEG stills (and probably lots of video) have the faintest idea of what I need?

Because 99% of the users only shoot jpeg, especially now with a fancy lut over it.

The younger generations want everything quick, and looks that seem like 'pro', but with a few clicks.

But at least that makes Lumix sell gear, keeps the shop running, and that is the reason you stil CAN buy any Lumix, Nikon, Fuji and even Sony gear.

The Automatic modes are also the most important features of any camera.

Do I use them, no, I cannot remember when I last used them, but with the money of all those other buyers they cam still design new camera's.

Not that you would find these users here on this forum, but they are the majority.

 

[Pete_W]

I really can't be doing with a 45min ramble that almost certainly will reveal no new news

There was no product news if that's what you meant? Panasonic would not announce or reveal information in this way. This video had some insights into how Panasonic operates, e.g. product cycles, design, firmware updates. I found this interesting.

One phrase I heard Sean say was "99% of the time I'm shooting JPEGs". Hmm - how can someone who shoots JPEG stills (and probably lots of video) have the faintest idea of what I need?

Sean works in marketing and social media for Panasonic so isn't the person deciding what users need or what features go into cameras.

 

[Pete_W]

Because 99% of the users only shoot jpeg, especially now with a fancy lut over it.

The younger generations want everything quick, and looks that seem like 'pro', but with a few clicks.

But at least that makes Lumix sell gear, keeps the shop running, and that is the reason you stil CAN buy any Lumix, Nikon, Fuji and even Sony gear.

The Automatic modes are also the most important features of any camera.

Do I use them, no, I cannot remember when I last used them, but with the money of all those other buyers they cam still design new camera's.

Not that you would find these users here on this forum, but they are the majority.

I agree John. A lot of people who buy cameras are unlikely to be spending time in forums like this or DPR. Or to put it another way, the hard-core camera enthusiast market, which is very vocal and demanding, probably does not represent the majority of camera buyers.

 

[dirk]

One phrase I heard Sean say was "99% of the time I'm shooting JPEGs"

I do think with digital it is the same as with analog. 95% of the photographers do not develop their film. 95% of the photographers do not do post processing, no matter whether they shoot Jepg only or RAW. The better the sensors get, the lower the gap in image quality between Jpeg and RAW for the media you look at the images 99% of the time.

I really can't be doing with a 45min ramble that almost certainly will reveal no new news

I watched the whole video. The purpose of that interview was not to announce new products. The title was a kind of click bait. The purpose was to explain what Sean is doing, his background, his responsibilities over the last 10 years at Lumix in different roles and the purpose of this weekly Lumix YouTube channel.

I found the information very interesting, because it helps to understand how Lumix/Panasonic sees itself in the photography/videography business and how they like to communicate with the consumer.

how can someone who shoots JPEG stills (and probably lots of video) have the faintest idea of what I need?

He is not a developer of new products. He has, because of jobs within Lumix in the past, a very good network to the Japanese engineers. His current "job" is to run the social media business in the US, run this weekly youtube channel to offer constantly answers to question of Lumix users and to collect feedback from user and then pass this to the appropriate people.

I thinks it is very important to understand how Japanese companies work/think to appreciate this job responsability of Sean. Japanese companies look normally only on the Japanese market and the demand there. Over the last +20 years with all brands I can tell you that with many brands, even the US and European management are treated as "second class" people who have no influence at all to products or influence on different regional needs.

I had meetings with top level people in Europe to find out later, that they have nothing to say and that a Japanese person with a lower title in a totally different department is the decison maker and the one who decides which information is forwarded to Japan. This is a cultural thing how decisions are made within Japanese companies.

The fact that there is a weekly FAQ Lumix youtube channel at all is already very impressive. Noone else is doing this.

Regarding new products Sean explains that a "normal" product cycle from the idea until it is in the shelves is around 5-6 years, like with the GH6. If it is not all brand new technology it will be shorter. Like with the S9.

Of course he can not announce new products in an interview with a YouTuber. But Sean made clear, that there is a product pipeline and they follow this pipeline. But they do not launch new products on a specific timeframe like i.e. every 2 years. They bring out new products if the improvements are siginificant enough so it is worth it for the user to upgrade.

Sean also said that Lumix want to emphase more on the photographers in the future. He said that all cameras will by hybrid anyway (with all brands), but Lumix needs to address more also in marketing the needs/wishes of the photographers.

I think we can all relax. We will get our Lumix wish list sooner or later. We just have to control our emotional desire to get everything immediately, "now".

 

[xaviergut]

I had meetings with top level people in Europe to find out later, that they have nothing to say and that a Japanese person with a lower title in a totally different department is the decison maker and the one who decides which information is forwarded to Japan. This is a cultural thing how decisions are made within Japanese companies.

But then, this "Lumix listens to their customers" thing is just a beautiful statement or they just listen to japanese customers or what?

 

[Nevyn72]

But then, this "Lumix listens to their customers" thing is just a beautiful statement or they just listen to japanese customers or what?

I'm now listening to the interview, and they just talked about how the 'influencers' worldwide talked with the engineers with the S9 release.

They wanted the multiple framemarkers (what is not useful for me, but if you make different social media content it does), and it was introduced on the latest firmware.

So they do listen outside Japan.

 

[Nevyn72]

I just finished the interview., thank you for sharing @Pete_W. I found it very interesting to listen. Of course there is a lot of marketing talk, but they DO talk also a lot about what mentality drives Lumix, and that is one I can definitely find myself in. And their longer cycles, and the reason for these I can fully understand.

I had already a lot of respect for the Lumix brand, but that has only increased during this interview.

 

[Oíche]

I'm not sure about them not listening or only considering the Japanese market, they have been a massive worldwide brand for eons. I know Lumix is a subsidiary but they're not a Pentax inside Ricoh of which Dirk's comments definitely apply and their hardcore users just accept it, although it is vastly diminished into an almost cult type following. I don't think that will happen with Lumix

We'll see if they add the astro tracing as I asked Sean for this and he said they'd pass it on to the engineers... Some hope but at least he knew what it was. TBH I'm not that interested in this any longer as I have FF and can do longer exposure with higher ISO. And you can buy GoTo tracking mounts which are far better anyway.

Moral of the story is you can't necessarily have everything you want. In the camera shop in January the salesman tried to wean me off the S5ii for Nikon Z6ii citing it was better for photography and the 600mm f4 etc. but I chose wisely and no way am I ever buying £14,000 lenses.

I have what I need for years upon years to come.

 

[dirk]

But then, this "Lumix listens to their customers" thing is just a beautiful statement or they just listen to japanese customers or what?

I was not referring to Panasonic with this. These were experiences with several other companies. But I will not name them obviously.

 

[dirk]

@Sean_at_LUMIX is a member in this forum by the way, but I doubt that he has the time to participate here.

 

[dirk]

We'll see if they add the astro tracing as I asked Sean for this and he said they'd pass it on to the engineers...

In that interview he said also that the timeframes are obviously different between what the users want to addd as a feature they would like to have now and the timeframe it needs to implement this idea into the next camera. Users do think in weeks and months, manufacturers plan in years. It is often difficult to react as quickly as the users would love to see it, because it takes so much time to implement new things via firmware or hardware in the ongoing development cycle.

 

[Nevyn72]

In that interview he said also that the timeframes are obviously different between what the users want to addd as a feature they would like to have now and the timeframe it needs to implement this idea into the next camera. Users do think in weeks and months, manufacturers plan in years. It is often difficult to react as quickly as the users would love to see it, because it takes so much time to implement new things via firmware or hardware in the ongoing development cycle.

As somebody who works at a company with both hardware as software engineers, i can fully agree.

Lumix is still a company driven firstly by engineering, and not by marketing. They don't make new models just to have something new, but when it makes sense. Makes me really happy again that I'm not a Sony camera user

 

[Oíche]

As somebody who works at a company with both hardware as software engineers, i can fully agree.

Lumix is still a company driven firstly by engineering, and not by marketing. They don't make new models just to have something new, but when it makes sense. Makes me really happy again that I'm not a Sony camera user

Yip and all the easily influenced are glued to YouTube influencers with those inexplicable (to me) cult trends like that Fuji camera which will be forgotten about in a years time and something else is now the latest.

Sony does seem to make models sometimes for the sake of it but they're got a market for this, I was never tempted by it or considered it. I never liked the ergonomics of it either, Lumix S5ii was like my Pentax that way so it was perfect.

I watched a few about the new Mac mini M4, very nice but I have the original base model M1 I have and it does everything I want. If you don't have one it's excellent for £599.

 

[Nevyn72]

I watched a few about the new Mac mini M4, very nice but I have the original base model M1 I have and it does everything I want. If you don't have one it's excellent for £599.

I totally agree, but I'm just not a Apple person.

I had the first Ipod, the first I-pad and for a previous company I worked for had to carry a iPhone 10, but it just never worked for me.

Somewhere in spring next year I will probably buy a new PC, but it will probably AMD or Intel based, running a beefy processor, a beefy graphics card and lots of memory.

 

[xaviergut]

Let's see, I'm probably the number 1 Lumix fanboy in Austria and part of Spain... but, for example, that Lumix took 6 years or more to implement PDAF when it was a popular cry among its customers... I don't know really what to think. Finally they did it and now they can say that "Lumix listens to its customers" years later.

By the way, Sean says in the interview that the S9 was planned years ago, when everyone was asking for a Lumix rangefider style camera... Then, why didn't they put an EVF on it? They would had gained many more photographer clients. Furthermore, the direct competing cameras already had it long before: Sony A7C, A7CII and A7CR. Not to mention Fuji.

Just two days ago an article came out in Dpreview about "Why camera makers don't seem to care about photographers, and why you shouldn't worry about that": https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/66...out-photographers-and-why-you-shouldn-t-worry

 

[Oíche]

I totally agree, but I'm just not a Apple person.

I'm not either, the mini is the only thing Apple I've ever bought. It is silent and sips electricity so it was a relevation after spending years trying to build quiet PCs which I grew to hate after years.

I had the first Ipod, the first I-pad and for a previous company I worked for had to carry a iPhone 10, but it just never worked for me.

Somewhere in spring next year I will probably buy a new PC, but it will probably AMD or Intel based, running a beefy processor, a beefy graphics card and lots of memory.

Beefy electricity bills too if that is a factor. I've xbox SX and it uses about 200W, it's good for the performance but I couldn't be using it 12 hours a day, not that I would anyway.

My friend moved to Brittany and pays £0.04/kWh or something. His bill is around £3/day as he has a modern house with a heatpump so no other fuel bills.

I think you pay more in Holland and I pay £0.38/kWh but this place is scandellous... Hence you see why it is a factor for me

 

[dirk]

By the way, Sean says in the interview that the S9 was planned years ago, when everyone was asking for a Lumix rangefider style camera... Then, why didn't they put an EVF on it?

Sean said in that interview regarding the S9 that the design goal was to offer a camera that is very different to the already planned (or announced?) S5ii.

My interpretation of that is that a S9 with EVF would have been too much of an "alternative/competition" to the S5ii. I think now that the S9 and S5ii are established and sales of both were good, they can risk to offer in 2025 something like a S9 with EVF and a S1R and S1H replacement. Other factors might also play a role, but I guess this was one of them.