Talk me in / out of selling my S1R

[incompatible]

Got a pang of regret yesterday when I went for a little outing to Padley Gorge in Derbyshire (a lovely gorge with ancient woodland and a nice fast stream at the bottom). It was the first time I’d used the S5 in anger in about a month and although it certainly is smaller and lighter than the S1R, I found myself missing the better EVF and the two axis tilt screen of the latter. Oh well, I guess we can‘t have everything! The images from it are great though, so no regrets there.

Called it on the specific regrets, and don't disagree about the size. 'We' need to get over the resale aspect and used condition, the S1R/S1 are built to be used without the cases and protection. The 70-300 was really the 'problem' with size as I recall from your kit. The lightest kit is the 16-35 S Pro and a non-is Canon 300 f4/L for the extreme range, and with a monopod (ifootage cobra) you can stitch and and multi-shot for landscape with both while also getting up close from afar.
A hybrid between the original E-M1 and S1R would be ideal, all f/4 zooms with the 1.8 primes and replace both the S1 and S1R with a single (SLR style) body is where I would go - and then look to another body between the GX8 and S5II as the other (rangefinder) body - finally adapt the S1H to the actual 'Pro' line next to varicam and double the price for those who need that with Leica making up the market between with a continuation of their similar (to S1/S1R) bodies.
Honestly though, once you get the 70-200 2.8 and 50 1.4 the S1R already feels like the E-M1 in comparison so there will always be that small market. Hopefully you don't have too much regret, the S1R sensor is in a singular category and is an instant classic, just get over bruising it up without the cases.

 

[PhotoPete]

It was the first time I’d used the S5 in anger in about a month and although it certainly is smaller and lighter than the S1R, I found myself missing the better EVF and the two axis tilt screen of the latter.

Just a comment. The new S5ii has better EVF than S5. There are good offers from Panasonic now if you'd like to make a switch.

Also I am interested how do you all feel about S5ii for stills? Everybody is talking about videos but I am taking mainly stills.

 

[pdk42]

I’ve pondered the S5ii a few times. But there really isn’t enough there to justify the upgrade cost. The AF on the S5 works perfectly fine for my type of photography and whilst the better EVF would sure be nice, on its own it‘s just not enough to justify the extra cost. I’ve mentally resigned myself to getting the S1ii, almost regardless of price (note the “almost” bit ), so long as it comes with a high res sensor and it’s only slightly larger than the S5. Except for the size and weight, the S1R was a good fit for me.

My big worry is that L mount stills cameras will in future come branded ”Leica” with a commensurate price tag (and maybe size too). If that happens, I can’t see me sticking around.

 

[Snowcat]

My big worry is that L mount stills cameras will in future come branded ”Leica” with a commensurate price tag (and maybe size too). If that happens, I can’t see me sticking around.

This is currently my worse photographic nightmare. Leica is WAY out of my leagues cost-wise, and I actively dislike their approach to design and ergonomics...

For me this

is an illustration that can be named "How to take an extremely good designed camera (RIGHT) and ruin it (LEFT)."

So I really hope that Panasonic WILL throw out a PHOTO-centric cameras from time to time...

 

[pdk42]

This is currently my worse photographic nightmare. Leica is WAY out of my leagues cost-wise, and I actively dislike their approach to design and ergonomics...

For me this

is an illustration that can be named "How to take an extremely good designed camera (RIGHT) and ruin it (LEFT)."

So I really hope that Panasonic WILL throw out a PHOTO-centric cameras from time to time...

Not only do I think Leica gear is generally over priced, but their continual refusal to use flip/tilt screens is a deal breaker for me. I also think the SL2 is one ugly SOB.

 

[dirk]

My big worry is that L mount stills cameras will in future come branded ”Leica” with a commensurate price tag (and maybe size too).

That would be a nightmare.

 

[xaviergut]

This is currently my worse photographic nightmare. Leica is WAY out of my leagues cost-wise, and I actively dislike their approach to design and ergonomics...

For me this

is an illustration that can be named "How to take an extremely good designed camera (RIGHT) and ruin it (LEFT)."

So I really hope that Panasonic WILL throw out a PHOTO-centric cameras from time to time...

hahahahaha

actually, I do like the design of this Leica SL2-S "Reporter" edition indeed:

 

[pdk42]

How much extra do they sting you for just to leave off the white lettering paint?

 

[xaviergut]

How much extra do they sting you for just to leave off the white lettering paint?

hahahaha

In fact, I do prefer the Leica lenses to Leica cameras... but with Leica, as you know, is more about the prestige of the brand. Something similar to what happens with expensive Swiss wristwatches, German cars or French fashion.

 

[Snowcat]

hahahaha

In fact, I do prefer the Leica lenses to Leica cameras... but with Leica, as you know, is more about the prestige of the brand. Something similar to what happens with expensive Swiss wristwatches, German cars or French fashion.

Yes, but in real life I've always preferred a wooden bracelet instead of watches, Korean cars and any fashion that feels comfortable So I am definitely not ready to pay extra for the Leica brand...

Yet I hope that Panasonic will make at least ONE replacement for S1R... As S1R is THE most expensive Pana model, I think it's replacement will cost a lot of money also, so I will be able to buy it 1-2years after it's release, and it will keep me satisfied for another 3-4 years perhaps... That's like 5 years totally - far enough So, Panasonic, PLEASE, create a good S1R replacement at least just this once!

 

[Biro]

I'm waiting and hoping that Panasonic will bring out what I would call an S5R - essentially an S5 II with a 47mp sensor, higher resolution EVF and bigger buffer. All in the same body. I would they could fit a more-robust battery inside as well while keeping the size and weight down to S5 levels. I have no idea if this is going to happen but I can dream can't I?

Meanwhile, while I'm talking wish list, I'd love for Panasonic or Sigma to bring out an APS-C camera in L-mount. I have a number of good lenses for my Leica CL and I really don't want that to be the last APS-C camera in the system.

 

[Jan.Wedekind]

I really doubt that APS-C will happen ever. It makes zero sense for Panasonic having m43 in parallel. Leica seems also much happier focusing on more boutique stuff like the Q and M.

I still have hole though of seeing one day something Leica CL shaped with L-Mount again but if so I’m sure it will be full frame.

 

[jalywol]

I think the size and weight issue are surprisingly important when you are out and about with your gear. The size of the S1 series put me off of Panasonic's L-mount offerings; it was the S5 that made me take a look at the line after that. And, if Panasonic came out with a (smaller than my S5) rangefinder size body, I'd buy it in a second.....
The other thing was the high ISO behavior of the S1R. I love the idea of high resolution sensors, but so far I have not seen any that appeal to me in how they handle lower light situations, and since that is a major reason for me to use FF, it seemed a bit self-defeating to go that way.
Funny thing though: I prefer to use my cameras just hand held, but after getting the Sigma 150-600mm last year, I started using it with a monopod (it's just too heavy to comfortably use well without support). It's still a beast, but more manageable with the monopod....and last week, when I was taking tulip shots with it, it behaved rather nicely. The interesting thing was, when I switched to the 70-300mm, which I use hand-held, I found it actually less comfortable to work with than the supported giant lens. That surprised me.
In any case, the thing is, you know your limits, and it sounds like the S1R was outside of them. I'd experiment with the S5 for now, and see what comes out down the pike....I can't imagine Panasonic has not at least considered an S5-sized high resolution body....whether or not they will go that way, who knows, though.

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

I would sell it while the prices are still good before the mark II (which is presumably not far off) comes along. I think the second generation of S1 cameras will be more slimmed down than the first.

 

[robin0112358]

And, if Panasonic came out with a (smaller than my S5) rangefinder size body, I'd buy it in a second.....

For me the S5 with lens is already huge, much larger than I would prefer. Where are all the pancake lenses of yore? I guess I was spoiled first by Pentax and then by the tiny Micro-Four-Thirds cameras.

I think there's a place for an S7, let's call it,. which is designed to appeal to people who want a smaller kit. Huge market for that in Japan for sure! I would want it to have the features of the S5 but leave off a dial and three buttons to allow good ergonomic control, even on a smaller body.

I also very much want a flip-up EVF since my favourite way of using a camera is looking down. That's a different subject... but the S7 could be a cute way of providing features otherwise missing across the product line.

Of course this would require a new slim line of lenses as well. Well, one can dream!

 

[jalywol]

For me the S5 with lens is already huge, much larger than I would prefer. Where are all the pancake lenses of yore? I guess I was spoiled first by Pentax and then by the tiny Micro-Four-Thirds cameras.

I think there's a place for an S7, let's call it,. which is designed to appeal to people who want a smaller kit. Huge market for that in Japan for sure! I would want it to have the features of the S5 but leave off a dial and three buttons to allow good ergonomic control, even on a smaller body.

I also very much want a flip-up EVF since my favourite way of using a camera is looking down. That's a different subject... but the S7 could be a cute way of providing features otherwise missing across the product line.

Of course this would require a new slim line of lenses as well. Well, one can dream!

I agree! The S5 is also bigger than I wanted (I have small hands and some arthritis), but the grip does not cause me pain, so I can live with it. A rangefinder, though, with a smaller grip and smaller overall body, would be just great. (GX8 style....)

 

[pdk42]

to have the features of the S5 but leave off a dial and three buttons to allow good ergonomic control, even on a smaller body.

I'd never buy a camera with fewer than two dials. And at least three buttons are mandatory - ISO, Back button AF, and Q/menu button. I'd also be mightily frustrated if the playback or disp control buttons disappeared.

I also very much want a flip-up EVF since my favourite way of using a camera is looking down. That's a different subject... but the S7 could be a cute way of providing features otherwise missing across the product line.

Yes, a flip-up EVF is a really nice feature.

 

[robin0112358]

I'd never buy a camera with fewer than two dials. And at least three buttons are mandatory - ISO, Back button AF, and Q/menu button. I'd also be mightily frustrated if the playback or disp control buttons disappeared.

I should have been clearer. I don't mean removing the parameter dials (or whatever one wants to call them) since these take up no space and are essential for ergonomics. But the top dial for shutter modes is not required at all. Neither is the focus dial/button on the back. And since the rosette is fully configurable, the joystick can go. It's too close to the AF ON button as it is.

I don't miss any of these controls on my MFT camera. IMO they just get in the way. All well and good having more physical controls on something as large as the S1, but the S5 is pushing the limits. And the (fictional) S7 can do fine without them.

 

[pdk42]

I should have been clearer. I don't mean removing the parameter dials (or whatever one wants to call them) since these take up no space and are essential for ergonomics. But the top dial for shutter modes is not required at all. Neither is the focus dial/button on the back. And since the rosette is fully configurable, the joystick can go. It's too close to the AF ON button as it is.

I don't miss any of these controls on my MFT camera. IMO they just get in the way. All well and good having more physical controls on something as large as the S1, but the S5 is pushing the limits. And the (fictional) S7 can do fine without them.

The problem is that everyone is different in their needs/wants. Personally, I find the PASM dial very useful since it can have Custom modes assigned which makes switching between them very easy. And the focus button on the rear is essential for me too since I use back button focus almost exclusively.

 

[robin0112358]

I am not saying remove the PASM dial! That way lies madness. I specified the dial on the left, with the timed shutter, etc.

I also didn't recommend removing the AF button. I was referring to the S/C/MF dial and button. I can't easily use these even on the S5. (Not sure what to call these things, so sorry for the continued confusion.)

This is all for a fictional smaller body, where we'd certainly need to lose something. The S5 has 25 controls. I can't imagine who needs that many!

Certainly everyone has different needs, which is why the ability to customise the interface is essential. But I've also noticed how people will adapt to a standard even if it's far from ideal... then fight vociferously for it never to be changed. Case in point: the entire Apple ecosystem.

Anyway, this is now deviating from the original topic. Maybe a new thread?