Talk me in / out of selling my S1R

[pdk42]

I got into L-mount with an S5 and I think it's a really great camera. But since I do a lot of landscape, I was tempted to try the 47Mp S1R. Used prices now are very good, so I thought "why not?". I've had the camera a month or so now and have used it quite a lot - firstly on a four-day trip to Scotland and then for a few shorter photo outings more locally.

In many ways I do like the camera. It definitely has a more robust and pro feel to it than the S5. The EVF is fantastic and I really appreciate the two-axis tilt mechanism on the rear screen - a way better design for landscape photographers than the fold out screen. Image quality of course is fantastic (so long as you keep the ISO low).

But it's a lump:



Its size isn't crazy once you're using it - in fact, it feels pretty good in the hand. The problem comes when you're carrying it. It really is not a great camera for casual use. In the Billingham Hadley Pro shoulder bag I use, it's a squeeze to get it in and the weight means the bag hangs heavy on the shoulder after an hour or so of walking. Of course, I could get a backpack and that would fix it, but backpacks don't lend themselves well to spontaneity - they're great when you have a location in mind and you just head there, but getting the bag off your back when an interesting vista springs into view is a pain if it happens too often.

So, I need to make a decision. Do I:

- Sell it and stick just with the S5. The S5's IQ is pretty darned good and I don't print very large very often. There's always the S5's hi-res mode, or stitching, if I really want more Mp.

- Keep it and accept the weight. In other words, I should "man up and quit the whining" as an Aussie might say!

- Keep it, but reserve it for specific purposes - basically for targeted landscape locations. Get a nice back-pack and put it in there.

I know it's a decision only I can make, but I'd appreciate some views from other owners.

 

[Roger J]

I can't. I just sold both of mine. Great pieces of equipment but I prefer the Leica CL and the Sigma FP
Sorry
Roger J.

 

[pdk42]

I can't. I just sold both of mine. Great pieces of equipment but I prefer the Leica CL and the Sigma FP
Sorry
Roger J.

What are your primary drivers behind that change Roger?

 

[Snowcat]

As I said in another theme on this forum, S1R made me REALLY happy camera-wise. My main subjects are also landscapes... And I fond this camera to be THE best one for my purposes for now. Better, then S5 (I've tried), better, then GFX100s (I cannot afford it BUT I've tried it also!), better, then Nikon Z7 (these 3 are obvious competitors). And better then crop camera, even though I always was a crop fan in the past, before I've met with S1R actually... SONY's are out of my eyesight because i HATE their ergonomics (I was using sony A mount and could not switch to E mount because of this).

Obviously - details, colors - S1R is PERFECT. Just perfect... GFX100s is the only camera that is better then S1R image-wise, BUT
1. This is a REALLY HEAVY(not like S1R, but really heavy!) system, camera even with a fix lens making you hand ache. After it I took S1R and understood how LIGHT it is!
2. Af system if GFX is.... lacking...
3. There are no comfortable zooms in the system
4, Price is too large

For now I am patiently waiting when Panasonic will introduce another hi res camera, and, after 1-2 years after this, I think I'll get it Before that - S1R is my camera of choice.

High ISO is not THAT bad, as some people say I don't remember exact numbers but I don't use tripods, so it gotta be high enough.

 

[dirk]

Hi Paul,

that is a really difficult decisioson to make. You probably know what I would do, BUT I think with you this is different. You make such great photos, i think you need the 47MP.

But if I were you, I would differentiate between longterm and short term.

Nobody knows when Panasonic brings a news 47MP model out and how it will look like. My guess is, that it will have some DNA of the S1R, but it will be smaller and lighter. The salesnumbers and the competition is forcing them to do so in my view. But this can happen this summer or this winter for christmas sale or even only next year.

The option to sell it now while the prices are still good and buy the successor a few months later sounds for me very intruiging. But there is the ris that it comes either very late or it will look and feel worse than the S1R. Also the price of the successor will be very high, since eveyrbody wants to have it with PDAF. No second hand market for the first few months.

Have you tried the highresolution mode of the S5 already? Try this first from a convenience perpective. In theory it is all good, but as soon as you have to use it often, you might realize things you have not thought about before.

I think you can sell images. That is also something to bear in mind. That could generate income for the next S1RMKii. Go to the villages and ask the people who are responsible for tourist marketing. I am sure they would love to have these images.

Another option would be to look at the Sigma fpL. It is tiny and has 60MP. No viewfinder (the external one seems to be a nightmare), so check whether you can live with the rearscrean and the batteries (how long they last). Electronic shutter only as far as I know.

I was thinking often about the fpL for myself too, because it is so tiny. Unfortunately, there is no dealer around here to test it at least for an hour.

So many choices, so little time...

But really, with these good images, I think you need at least 47MP longterm. The rest is an evaluation how much money you can afford to loose, if you sell too early or too late or nothing comes in 2023.

 

[dirk]

I can't. I just sold both of mine. Great pieces of equipment but I prefer the Leica CL and the Sigma FP
Sorry
Roger J.

We have to talk about the FP at another time in another thread.

I am really curious about your experience with it! I am thinking back and forth about the FPL, but I guess usablitiy is the same like the FP.

 

[pdk42]

We have to talk about the FP at another time in another thread.

I am really curious about your experience with it! I am thinking back and forth about the FPL, but I guess usablitiy is the same like the FP.

It seems that the FPL is really a camera for tripod use. No IBIS, no EVF. no tilt screen - a trio of usability features that is a sure-fire recipe for camera shake. But every time I put a camera on a tripod the first thing I do is tilt the screen... I'm sure the FP/FPL would drive me nuts!

 

[Roger J]

What are your primary drivers behind that change Roger?

Greetings pdk42
It was the size and weight, although the Leica SL series are the same size and close in weight. I feel the Panasonic has a better image, BUT it doesn't have the Red Dot. LOL For me it was the size and weight. I like the FP and CL do to weight and size.
Hope this helps.
Good Luck
Roger J.

 

[xaviergut]

I got into L-mount with an S5 and I think it's a really great camera. But since I do a lot of landscape, I was tempted to try the 47Mp S1R. Used prices now are very good, so I thought "why not?". I've had the camera a month or so now and have used it quite a lot - firstly on a four-day trip to Scotland and then for a few shorter photo outings more locally.

In many ways I do like the camera. It definitely has a more robust and pro feel to it than the S5. The EVF is fantastic and I really appreciate the two-axis tilt mechanism on the rear screen - a way better design for landscape photographers than the fold out screen. Image quality of course is fantastic (so long as you keep the ISO low).

But it's a lump:


Its size isn't crazy once you're using it - in fact, it feels pretty good in the hand. The problem comes when you're carrying it. It really is not a great camera for casual use. In the Billingham Hadley Pro shoulder bag I use, it's a squeeze to get it in and the weight means the bag hangs heavy on the shoulder after an hour or so of walking. Of course, I could get a backpack and that would fix it, but backpacks don't lend themselves well to spontaneity - they're great when you have a location in mind and you just head there, but getting the bag off your back when an interesting vista springs into view is a pain if it happens too often.

So, I need to make a decision. Do I:

- Sell it and stick just with the S5. The S5's IQ is pretty darned good and I don't print very large very often. There's always the S5's hi-res mode, or stitching, if I really want more Mp.

- Keep it and accept the weight. In other words, I should "man up and quit the whining" as an Aussie might say!

- Keep it, but reserve it for specific purposes - basically for targeted landscape locations. Get a nice back-pack and put it in there.

I know it's a decision only I can make, but I'd appreciate some views from other owners.

Hi Paul, I would keep it. It is a wonderful camera.

I don't see many more options in cameras for the L-Mount, because as you know the Leica SL2-S is very similar to the S5 and the SL2 is very simlar to the S1R. I don't know how much different the image quality of the S5 and S5II is. I don't think there is much difference...

In terms of weight and a good backpack to carry the camera comfortably and in a flexible and spontaneous way, I use the Mindshift Rotation 180 Backpack.

I copy and paste a youtube video where its advantages are explained. I have nothing to do with Think Tank Photo, that is, I don't advertise for them on internet forums, but it is a product that I use regularly and I find it very practical and convenient. I don't know if copying product promotional videos is in accordance with the rules of this forum - please Dirk tell me if this is correct - but the only intention is to show how it works for people who don't know it:

 

[Lsake]

I sometimes use my S5 to take landscapes. I have a panoramic canvas print hanging on the wall which I made by taking taking multiple images and stitching them in LR. You just have to be aware of your desired output ahead of time to do this. There is a little extra risk because you don’t know the result will be good until you’re back in the lab. There are a few minor artefacts in my pano that an experienced photographer will probably spot on close inspection. In a gallery this might be unnaceptable but I knew this pano would just be for me to display at home.

Now potentially, if I had and S1R and a wide enough lens, I could have taken a single frame and cropped to 3:1. The resolution might have ended up being similar, but without the minor artefacts caused by some of the moving elements.

That being said I think the S5ii has an improved hi res mode, which probably does a better job of handling moving elements than LR image stitching. Not sure if a tripod is a requirement, but an S5ii could go most of the way to giving you that hi res output in a lighter form factor.

I am waiting (hoping) on an S1Rii or S1ii with more than 24MP. If they can reduce the weight a bit and add the PDAF system I am sold.

 

[pdk42]

Hi Paul, I would keep it. It is a wonderful camera.

I don't see many more options in cameras for the L-Mount, because as you know the Leica SL2-S is very similar to the S5 and the SL2 is very simlar to the S1R. I don't know how much different the image quality of the S5 and S5II is. I don't think there is much difference...

In terms of weight and a good backpack to carry the camera comfortably and in a flexible and spontaneous way, I use the Mindshift Rotation 180 Backpack.

I copy and paste a youtube video where its advantages are explained. I have nothing to do with Think Tank Photo, that is, I don't advertise for them on internet forums, but it is a product that I use regularly and I find it very practical and convenient. I don't know if copying product promotional videos is in accordance with the rules of this forum - please Dirk tell me if this is correct - but the only intention is to show how it works for people who don't know it:

Thank you Xavier. That bag does look very interesting. What size do you have? Is the 22 big enough for an S1R and 2 lenses (14-28 + 24-105)?

 

[pdk42]

I sometimes use my S5 to take landscapes. I have a panoramic canvas print hanging on the wall which I made by taking taking multiple images and stitching them in LR. You just have to be aware of your desired output ahead of time to do this. There is a little extra risk because you don’t know the result will be good until you’re back in the lab. There are a few minor artefacts in my pano that an experienced photographer will probably spot on close inspection. In a gallery this might be unnaceptable but I knew this pano would just be for me to display at home.

Now potentially, if I had and S1R and a wide enough lens, I could have taken a single frame and cropped to 3:1. The resolution might have ended up being similar, but without the minor artefacts caused by some of the moving elements.

That being said I think the S5ii has an improved hi res mode, which probably does a better job of handling moving elements than LR image stitching. Not sure if a tripod is a requirement, but an S5ii could go most of the way to giving you that hi res output in a lighter form factor.

I am waiting (hoping) on an S1Rii or S1ii with more than 24MP. If they can reduce the weight a bit and add the PDAF system I am sold.

Thanks. I agree that stitching a often a good solution. I find that LR's panorama stitch works very well. I have just had the image below printed onto a 1.2m wide aluminium panel and it looks spectacular. It's a stitch of 8 heavily-overlapping images in portrait orientation from the S5 taken at 28mm with the 20-60 lens. The stitched image is 9000px across, so not far off what the S1R would do (8334px), but I would have needed a very wide lens to capture it.


Sunset Over The Shard by Paul Kaye, on Flickr

But printing is really quite forgiving. I printed the image below also at 1.2m wide on an aluminium panel and it looks great - but it's a single shot from the S5 (again with the 20-60) and slightly cropped - so actually only 5400px across:


At the End of a November Day by Paul Kaye, on Flickr

 

[Lsake]

excellent images, I also used the 20-60mm for mine. I don’t actually have it in a share-able location but here is a single image from the series which I thought made a good image as a single frame:



Would a 40MP sensor have given more detail? Yes, very likely. But once it’s printed and on the wall, I tend to stand back and look at the whole picture. And since I’ve taken to printing on canvas, it’s not the greatest medium for showing extremely small detail anyway.

 

[xaviergut]

Thank you Xavier. That bag does look very interesting. What size do you have? Is the 22 big enough for an S1R and 2 lenses (14-28 + 24-105)?

I have the 34 liter version. In the camera bag (which is at the bottom of the backpack and is cinched at the waist), I can fit the S1R with the 50mm f/1.4 attached to it in the main compartment and the Leica 24-70mm f/2.8 lens in the smaller sub-compartment from that same camera bag.

I don't know if the S1R could fit in the 22L bag with those two lenses. But I think that the 50mm 1.4 is even bigger than the 24-105mm f/4. I also believe that the 24-70mm f/2.8 is a larger size than the 14-28mm.

In any case, you can always put the lens that is not attached to the camera in the main compartment of the backpack or in the upper compartment or even in the side pocket (at least in the 34L version). The 14-28mm lens is not that huge.

 

[incompatible]

In the Billingham Hadley Pro shoulder bag I use, it's a squeeze to get it in and the weight means the bag hangs heavy on the shoulder after an hour or so of walking. Of course, I could get a backpack and that would fix it, but backpacks don't lend themselves well to spontaneity - they're great when you have a location in mind and you just head there, but getting the bag off your back when an interesting vista springs into view is a pain if it happens too often.

So, I need to make a decision.

- Keep it and accept the weight.

The only thing I use bags for is organizing equipment. I have a couple of S1R bodies, and also S1 bodies, they are very different sensors, and I keep two separate bags each with an S1 and S1R in them with four different lenses. Getting to you point, I have the Smallrig L plates on the two S1R bodies and 8Sinn cages on the S1 bodies and almost never carry a bag while shooting and prefer the rapid-strap systems attached to either the L-Plate or cage and just bash the cameras around unprotected. I have dropped the S1R off the roof of car to pavement, no damage to camera and only the 70-200 2.8 hood was damaged; I have frozen the S1R in minus-twenty-nine Celsius with blowing snow and now damage; I have soaked the S1R in thunderstorms and a 400 2.8 and no damage.... Lumix Pro Services has been over my gear and other than some body dust and sensor cleaning it all is 100% functional. I came from using Canon 1D series bodies to Olympus E-M1, and REALLY like the combination of durability of the S1R/S1 bodies with unique features. Camera bags are more the problem it sounds like, and while the S5 may be lighter I think the main decision in your case might be the flip-out screen of the S5, and the much better viewfinder of the S1R, but in either case consider using a rapid-strap, and one lens bag for your belt while shooting if you need a lens change. I still use the EM1X body for extreme weather and field-sensor data, and the S1R/S1 are pretty close for durability with the preferred (for me) tilting screen.

 

[pdk42]

The only thing I use bags for is organizing equipment. I have a couple of S1R bodies, and also S1 bodies, they are very different sensors, and I keep two separate bags each with an S1 and S1R in them with four different lenses. Getting to you point, I have the Smallrig L plates on the two S1R bodies and 8Sinn cages on the S1 bodies and almost never carry a bag while shooting and prefer the rapid-strap systems attached to either the L-Plate or cage and just bash the cameras around unprotected. I have dropped the S1R off the roof of car to pavement, no damage to camera and only the 70-200 2.8 hood was damaged; I have frozen the S1R in minus-twenty-nine Celsius with blowing snow and now damage; I have soaked the S1R in thunderstorms and a 400 2.8 and no damage.... Lumix Pro Services has been over my gear and other than some body dust and sensor cleaning it all is 100% functional. I came from using Canon 1D series bodies to Olympus E-M1, and REALLY like the combination of durability of the S1R/S1 bodies with unique features. Camera bags are more the problem it sounds like, and while the S5 may be lighter I think the main decision in your case might be the flip-out screen of the S5, and the much better viewfinder of the S1R, but in either case consider using a rapid-strap, and one lens bag for your belt while shooting if you need a lens change. I still use the EM1X body for extreme weather and field-sensor data, and the S1R/S1 are pretty close for durability with the preferred (for me) tilting screen.

Wow - that's quite some punishment you've given to your kit! But it sounds like you're a working photographer so it's not surprising. It's only us amateurs who baby the gear!

I think my "problem" is that I've become used to using a shoulder bag (Billingham) and putting everything into that. It works for a smaller m43 system, but not for a larger FF system (even though I've now got a larger Billingham!). I think the solution is to use a backpack, probably supplemented with a PD strap to get the camera secured to one of the shoulder straps. I quite like the one that Xavier linked to above.

 

[incompatible]

I used the Sling-style bags for my m43 system, LowePro and PacSafe, and the L-Mount doesn't fit [these]. These cameras are for keeps so some marks don't really bother me. My two main bags are Crumpler Six-Million dollar homes for stuffing in transport, but the actual pack I carry is a 40L Arcteryx that holds my emergency gear, food, and tripod - these cameras are so tough they don't need a bag, and a little tape on the branding and some bruises makes them less interesting for thieves. Sling-style shooting whether rapid-strap or sling-bag has been the best for me with L-Mount over the last three years, but I also use the largest lenses available from Sigma ART [EF] and Panasonic L so the bias has come from accepting that this is a heavy system without compromises.

 

[pdk42]

Well, I’ve decided to let it go. Park Cameras have offered a decent buy price so it’s a nice simple transaction.

In the end, the decision was simple - I looked back to why I ditched heavy kit in 2013 (when I sold my Canon gear) and the reason was the drag on flexibility and adaptability when travelling. Talk of bigger bags etc certainly helps with managing the weight, but it just increases the complexities of travel (carry on baggage limits etc).

But I did like the IQ of the bigger sensor and I loved the higher res EVF, so I can see me buying into the S1R’s successor - so long as it’s smaller and lighter.

 

[pdk42]

Got a pang of regret yesterday when I went for a little outing to Padley Gorge in Derbyshire (a lovely gorge with ancient woodland and a nice fast stream at the bottom). It was the first time I’d used the S5 in anger in about a month and although it certainly is smaller and lighter than the S1R, I found myself missing the better EVF and the two axis tilt screen of the latter. Oh well, I guess we can‘t have everything! The images from it are great though, so no regrets there.

 

[xaviergut]

Got a pang of regret yesterday when I went for a little outing to Padley Gorge in Derbyshire (a lovely gorge with ancient woodland and a nice fast stream at the bottom). It was the first time I’d used the S5 in anger in about a month and although it certainly is smaller and lighter than the S1R, I found myself missing the better EVF and the two axis tilt screen of the latter. Oh well, I guess we can‘t have everything! The images from it are great though, so no regrets there.

Paul, have you thought about the possibility of acquiring a used S1? ISO performance will surely be better in low light than the S1R, and you still get the superb EVF and tilt screen. The weight problem will still be there, however...