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News Sigma BF

Johnnie from cined.com is in CP+ in Japan and could play a bit with the Sigma BF. He says that it is a very heavy camera, bigger than it seems, that the edges are very sharp (!?) and that it could be used as a weapon hahaha :D:D

He says also that is a the perfect Sigma "lifestyle camera". Almost every brand has a "lifestyle camera":

Nikon: Zf
OM Systems: OM3
Lumix: S9
Fujifilm: X100VI
Sony: A7CR
Leica: Q3 (all of Leicas are lifestyle cameras)
Canon: ???????

My lifestyle camera is the Nikon Df... in 2025 (!?)
 
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xaviergut said:
the edges are very sharp (!?)
Click to expand...

I wonder how well that'll stand up to regular use. I've been using Apple MacBook Pro's for about 12 years now and a personal frustration is that it's a bit too easy to ding the sharp edges: I did this to my current 2021 version simply by knocking it slightly as I picked up my iPad that was connected to it by USB while debugging an app. It'd really bug me to have a camera with chewed up edges...

I'm also wondering what the arrival of the BF means for the fp series? I'm presuming they'll be discontinued in due course since they've never sold well, but I'm going to be sad about that because no other camera I've owned can match my fp L in terms of pure image quality and beautiful colour.
 
xaviergut said:
Johnnie from cined.com is in CP+ in Japan and could play a bit with the Sigma BF. He says that it is a very heavy camera, bigger than it seems, that the edges are very sharp (!?) and that it could be used as a weapon hahaha :D:D
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Heh. Yeah, I expected it to feel pretty dense, given the solid metal unibody; did he say whether it just felt dense, or did the weight drag on your arm after a while? This has unfortunately become a significant point for me of late. ;_; The sharp edges also sound like a concern.

Did he say anything about the rear screen? I said it’d take a quantum leap to make it usable for me, but maybe they pulled it off…

xaviergut said:
He says also that is a the perfect Sigma "lifestyle camera". Almost every brand has a "lifestyle camera":
Click to expand...
Well, there are lifestyle cameras and there are “lifestyle cameras”. ^^;;

The S9 has the small stylish body, but it also has the LUTs and fast posting workflow.

The X100 line has the retro film styling, but it also has the focus on a manual retro control setup for those who want it.

The A7CR has a compact body, and… well, I wasn’t that impressed with the ergonomics when I played with one. (Frankly, I don’t find it all that stylish either.)

The OM3 is stylish, but I also like the size, the stacked sensor, and it looks like they didn’t skimp on the controls. But I’d still want to play with one to see if the ergonomics work.

The Zf I don’t know enough about to say whether the style is more than skin-deep.

Not touching the Leica argument. ^^;;
 
AlanC said:
According to Petapixel, Sigma can make just 9 BF's a day since it takes 7 hours for the CNC machine to mill the casing from a single block of aluminium:
https://petapixel.com/2025/02/25/sigma-can-make-just-nine-bf-cameras-a-day/

So there are never going to be many of them.
Click to expand...
Um, yeah. ^^;;;;;;

Apple makes its laptop cases the same way, and they make a lot more than 9 per day. And the numbers in the article don't add up; they cited needing six "new" CNC machines operating in pairs, but that should give you an even number of cameras, not an odd number like 9. If they had three already, for nine machines total, that would give 9 in seven hours - but they could do one run during business hours, then start a second run to go overnight, for 18 a day... all of which is not trying to predict a specific number for how many they can actually make, but to point out the numbers they have given don't seem to go together.

If it is a low-volume product, though, that at least makes some sense of the dilemma I see in the BF's market positioning. As I said above, the interface and style suggest they're marketing it towards casual and non-photographers, but they typically don't pay that much for a camera; the price suggests they're aiming it at photographers serious enough to pay $2000, but they typically don't like simplified interfaces. The overlap between the sets is pretty small... but if Sigma never intended it to be a high-volume product, then that's not a big problem.

Still makes me wonder what they have in mind for the BF, if was always supposed to be low-volume. Prestige halo product? Interface prototype for a higher-volume model coming later? Doesn't seem like a big money-maker in itself...
 
Travis Butler said:
Um, yeah. ^^;;;;;;

Apple makes its laptop cases the same way, and they make a lot more than 9 per day. And the numbers in the article don't add up; they cited needing six "new" CNC machines operating in pairs, but that should give you an even number of cameras, not an odd number like 9. If they had three already, for nine machines total, that would give 9 in seven hours - but they could do one run during business hours, then start a second run to go overnight, for 18 a day... all of which is not trying to predict a specific number for how many they can actually make, but to point out the numbers they have given don't seem to go together.
Click to expand...
Not so odd.

Probably takes two kinds of CNC to finish all the varying types of cuts that need to be made. The raw block starts on one, and then gets moved to the second, where it is finished.

So you have three pairs of machines.

I takes 7 hours per pair to create a casing. So one pair of machines can make about 3 casings a day.

Time 3 pair of machines, you get 9 casings a day.

Again, it can be scaled up, but I can understand why they want to keep it in-house initially, which means keeping the machine count low in order to reduce investment costs.

Travis Butler said:
If it is a low-volume product, though, that at least makes some sense of the dilemma I see in the BF's market positioning. As I said above, the interface and style suggest they're marketing it towards casual and non-photographers, but they typically don't pay that much for a camera; the price suggests they're aiming it at photographers serious enough to pay $2000, but they typically don't like simplified interfaces. The overlap between the sets is pretty small... but if Sigma never intended it to be a high-volume product, then that's not a big problem.

Still makes me wonder what they have in mind for the BF, if was always supposed to be low-volume. Prestige halo product? Interface prototype for a higher-volume model coming later? Doesn't seem like a big money-maker in itself...
Click to expand...
 
AlanC said:
Sigma can make just 9 BF's a day since it takes 7 hours for the CNC machine to mill the casing from a single block of aluminium:
Click to expand...
AlanC said:
So there are never going to be many of them.
Click to expand...
Japan is full of good CNC machines. There is plenty of capacity in the country - for hire.
 
GeorgeHudetz said:
Again, it can be scaled up, but I can understand why they want to keep it in-house initially, which means keeping the machine count low in order to reduce investment costs.
Click to expand...
This is Japan, a country built on relationships and trust. There should be lots of CNC capacity with trusted suppliers if they need to scale up. Most production tooling in Japan is done by outside vendors.
 
Travis Butler said:
If it is a low-volume product, though, that at least makes some sense of the dilemma I see in the BF's market positioning. As I said above, the interface and style suggest they're marketing it towards casual and non-photographers, but they typically don't pay that much for a camera; the price suggests they're aiming it at photographers serious enough to pay $2000
Click to expand...
I don't think it is. Casual and non-photographers are just going to use their phones, and not worry about aperture, shutter speed, changing lenses and so on. I think it's aimed more at well heeled enthusiasts who want to take something quite stylish and modern out to dinner with them, when travelling, and so on. Rather than some black, vintage looking relic from the past.
 
CharlesH said:
This is Japan, a country built on relationships and trust. There should be lots of CNC capacity with trusted suppliers if they need to scale up. Most production tooling in Japan is done by outside vendors.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't think so, in Japan. I think you'd more than likely have to do an Apple, and go to China for that. To have large numbers of $300,000? machines just sitting idle would be economic suicide.
 
Markuswelder said:
I wouldn't think so, in Japan. I think you'd more than likely have to do an Apple, and go to China for that. To have large numbers of $300,000? machines just sitting idle would be economic suicide.
Click to expand...
I've been to lots of these shops in Japan, so I know the situation. The machines don't sit idle, you have to schedule them, like anything else in the production world. And yes, much of that work has moved to China so there is less in Japan. Bf production would be a really small job compared to most of what these shops do.
 
CharlesH said:
I've been to lots of these shops in Japan, so I know the situation. The machines don't sit idle, you have to schedule them, like anything else in the production world. And yes, much of that work has moved to China so there is less in Japan. Bf production would be a really small job compared to most of what these shops do.
Click to expand...
The very fact that they haven't either invested in more manufacturing equipment, or scheduled production from outside sources I think tells us of their expectations of sales volume.
 
AlanC said:
According to Petapixel, Sigma can make just 9 BF's a day since it takes 7 hours for the CNC machine to mill the casing from a single block of aluminium

So there are never going to be many of them.
Click to expand...
I think that should be more than enough to meet demand... ;)
 
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