News S1Rii - Read all about it!

[Pete_W]

In that video I found it very interesting, that he thinks that the grip of the S1Rii is for him a lot better than the one in the S5ii.

First time that I hear this.

I have heard that mentioned in a few of the reviews now. Apparently it's a bit deeper.

 

[CharlesH]

In that video I found it very interesting, that he thinks that the grip of the S1Rii is for him a lot better than the one in the S5ii.

First time that I hear this.

The minor grip difference has been mentioned in passing in a couple of reviews.

 

[Travis Butler]

The minor grip difference has been mentioned in passing in a couple of reviews.

Yeah... that kind of thing is why I always try to reserve judgement on ergonomics until I actually hold something in my hands.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

As more reports trickle in, I do think the S1RII is going to be an amazing body that carves out it's own niche in the market. I say that being one of the early skeptics.

 

[Markuswelder]

I have no need, or want for 44MP, 8K video -or any video for that matter, and even I'm a wee bit tempted by it. Much the same size as my S5 mk1, but supercharged in most other features. 9fps in mechanical shutter is way more than I ever want or need, I do NOT want to come home from the race track and have to sift through 5000+ photos.
The colours coming straight out of the camera look magnificent to me, both in stills and video.
But I do wonder if the alliance will abandon DFD support for new lenses, or only make a token effort to encourage users to move forward. Maybe just worry about it when the time comes

 

[dirk]

Yeah... that kind of thing is why I always try to reserve judgement on ergonomics until I actually hold something in my hands.

I agree. The reason why I am sensible for this is my experience with the Lumix G9 vs. Olympus EM1 Mark3.

First, I bought the Lumix G9 second hand and was happy with it. But then I had a trip with the G9 and the Olympus 40-150/2.8 Pro telezoom. I realized that for my kind of small hands, the grip of the G9 was too thick as soon as I have a heavier/bigger lens on it use it the whole day while walking around (with peak design camera strap)

After that trip I bought an Olympus EM1.3 second hand and the grip is significantly better for me in this combination, although reviewers said that the differences were minor between the two.

I will try the grip of the Lumix S1Rii for sure one day and compare it with my S5ii and Olympus EM1.3

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

This was posted in another thread, but it should be here as well. Some good insights into rolling shutter effects on video and how to setup the S1RII to minimize those effects, should you care.

 

[xaviergut]

I wish camera manufacturers would offer a little flexibility when it comes to configuring their products. For example, if you buy a car model, you can configure the engine power, interior design, type of wheels, etc., or when you buy a computer, you can choose the processor, graphics card, internal memory, etc.

I say this because I feel like we pay for features we'll never use or don't need. For example, on the S1Rii, I don't need 8k AT ALL.

I'd like to be able to design a camera with the screen, EVF, resolution, speed, processor, or video stuff I'm going to use, and not pay for things I don't need. And I wouldn't mind if Lumix took 4 or 5 months to build it with all the different options, like what happens when you buy a new car.

By the way, this idea comes from the last video of James Popsys...

 

[CharlesH]

This was posted in another thread, but it should be here as well. Some good insights into rolling shutter effects on video and how to setup the S1RII to minimize those effects, should you care.

This is really good testing and a good result by Gerald Undone. Wasn't familiar with 360 degree frame drop, that concept is new to me, but the video looked smooth. Also, the benefit of Cropless EIF for rolling shutter is interesting.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

This is really good testing and a good result by Gerald Undone. Wasn't familiar with 360 degree frame drop, that concept is new to me, but the video looked smooth. Also, the benefit of Cropless EIF for rolling shutter is interesting.

Agreed, it was quite helpful. I'd love to see something similar for stills. I think one of the reason that there is so much angst over sensor read out speed is that it's hard to characterize the effects.

BTW, the comments section of that video is an interesting read. Gerald seems to have a lot of pros that follow his channel, and the comments are actually worth reading.

 

[Travis Butler]

I wish camera manufacturers would offer a little flexibility when it comes to configuring their products. For example, if you buy a car model, you can configure the engine power, interior design, type of wheels, etc., or when you buy a computer, you can choose the processor, graphics card, internal memory, etc.

I say this because I feel like we pay for features we'll never use or don't need. For example, on the S1Rii, I don't need 8k AT ALL.

I'd like to be able to design a camera with the screen, EVF, resolution, speed, processor, or video stuff I'm going to use, and not pay for things I don't need. And I wouldn't mind if Lumix took 4 or 5 months to build it with all the different options, like what happens when you buy a new car.

By the way, this idea comes from the last video of James Popsys...

Out of curiosity, what do you know about electronics assembly lines? I admit, from what I know about them, this sounds like one of those ideas that's cool on the surface but impractical when you start digging into the details - even counterproductive. As I understand it, cameras are built on a single integrated assembly line; adding options would require either breaking up the line at every point there's an option choice - slowing down production and increasing costs for everything - or creating a second line just for custom builds, with all the expense that incurs. And since custom builds would be a separate custom process, they'd be more expensive than the standard build - possibly wiping out any savings from reduced parts costs.

Cameras are one of the most integrated bits of consumer electronics gear I can think of, short of a smartphone. Changing any part of that would cause knock-on effects for the rest of the system, if they were doable at all.

To use your example: 8K video, from a hardware standpoint, would be a function of the processor, which is then programmed to do 8K video, and the cooling system which keeps the body cool while doing it. The processor is needed for other things like hi-rate burst shooting and handheld hi-res mode, so you can't drop that. And I'm not sure how the cooling system could be made optional - what do you do, leave empty spots in the body where the fans would go? - and I doubt you'd save significant amounts of money on parts by doing so - maybe $5-15 USD?

I doubt you'd see a whole lot in savings from any of the other parts - maybe $15-30 for the screen? The sort of thing that only becomes significant at scale when you're talking about tens of thousands of items, not for any individual item. And when you start doing that, you increase complexity in the rest of the system - when you have different screens, do you have separate ROM versions for each different screen, or add multiple branches to a single ROM to handle all of them? How much extra work will it take to maintain all those separate branches?

 

[CharlesH]

I wish camera manufacturers would offer a little flexibility when it comes to configuring their products. For example, if you buy a car model, you can configure the engine power, interior design, type of wheels, etc., or when you buy a computer, you can choose the processor, graphics card, internal memory, etc.

I say this because I feel like we pay for features we'll never use or don't need.

I'd like to be able to design a camera with the screen, EVF, resolution, speed, processor, or video stuff I'm going to use, and not pay for things I don't need. And I wouldn't mind if Lumix took 4 or 5 months to build it with all the different options, like what happens when you buy a new car.

A number of years ago we had a project with a cell phone company with this idea of custom phones. Plus you could do various upgrades. Buy a minimum phone and grow it over time, and upgrade it as new processors were available, etc. The basic phone itself was to be good forever. They finally gave up on this, the economics never worked out.

For example, on the S1Rii, I don't need 8k AT ALL.

I am coming to the S1Rii from the Sony A1 which has 8K video. 8K gives you the ability do lots of things in post when you edit on a 4K timeline. You can zoom, pan, tilt, and crop. And I missed this extra space with the S5iix.

 

[Travis Butler]

A number of years ago we had a project with a cell phone company with this idea of custom phones. Plus you could do various upgrades. Buy a minimum phone and grow it over time, and upgrade it as new processors were available, etc. The basic phone itself was to be good forever. They finally gave up on this, the economics never worked out.

Yeah; Google with Project Ara. Not just the economics, either; the engineering was an issue. Making all those parts modular required extra overhead for each part (the casing and interface hardware), plus the extra bulk in the frame to hold the separate modules together; and using modules reduced structural integrity and added multiple points of failure.

 

[CharlesH]

Agreed, it was quite helpful. I'd love to see something similar for stills. I think one of the reason that there is so much angst over sensor read out speed is that it's hard to characterize the effects.

It is difficult to quantitatively measure rolling shutter for stills, so you can compare different shooting modes. It may be possible with SynthEyes, I don't know.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

BTW, looks like the ship date has been pushed back to March 31 (Adorama website).

Would be interesting to know the backstory as to why. But, whatever. I'm fine waiting a few weeks if it prevents people from feeling like they are unwitting beta testers.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

I am coming to the S1Rii from the Sony A1 which has 8K video. 8K gives you the ability do lots of things in post when you edit on a 4K timeline. You can zoom, pan, tilt, and crop. And I missed this extra space with the S5iix.

FYI, this guy says he didn't see a meaningful resolution enhancement from the 6k S5ii to the 8k S1Rii. It's a good video (despite the clickbait title) where he actually uses the S1Rii in a real professional hybrid photo/video shoot.



Not sure what to make of his finding on the resolution of the S1Rii's 8k video, but new firmware could change the outcome, I suppose. But you might want to keep your eye on that.

 

[CharlesH]

BTW, looks like the ship date has been pushed back to March 31 (Adorama website).

B&H is still showing March 17, but Amazon also shows March 31 -- so it does look like March 31. I have a business trip to Australia on April 1 and was hoping to take the S1Rii along, but it doesn't look like this will happen.

 

[PJD]

B&H is still showing March 17, but Amazon also shows March 31 -- so it does look like March 31. I have a business trip to Australia on April 1 and was hoping to take the S1Rii along, but it doesn't look like this will happen.

Bummer. I feel your pain. Years ago, shortly before my wife & I were set to leave on a once-in-a-lifetime vacation in Australia & New Zealand, I’d hoped the then-new Blackmagic 4K “Production Camera” would be available before we left home. Didn’t happen. So instead I brought my LUMIX GH2 & GH3 cameras. Although I captured some nice footage with those 1080p cams, I’d so much rather it was Blackmagic 4K ProRes HQ video (with a global shutter, too!) Sigh.

 

[xaviergut]

Out of curiosity, what do you know about electronics assembly lines? I admit, from what I know about them, this sounds like one of those ideas that's cool on the surface but impractical when you start digging into the details - even counterproductive. As I understand it, cameras are built on a single integrated assembly line; adding options would require either breaking up the line at every point there's an option choice - slowing down production and increasing costs for everything - or creating a second line just for custom builds, with all the expense that incurs. And since custom builds would be a separate custom process, they'd be more expensive than the standard build - possibly wiping out any savings from reduced parts costs.

Cameras are one of the most integrated bits of consumer electronics gear I can think of, short of a smartphone. Changing any part of that would cause knock-on effects for the rest of the system, if they were doable at all.

When I was studying at university (more yhsn 25 years ago hahaha), to save a little money, I worked on the assembly line at the Volkswagen factory that made the VW Polo model during a couple of summer holidays.

Each car manufactured was different in terms of engine type (diesel, GTI, etc.), gearbox type (automatic or manual), wheel type, interior trim (seats, tray, steering wheel, stereo, etc.), and this did not slow down the speed of the assembly line or final production. The logistics of the different pieces simply worked like clockwork.

I have never worked on a camera assembly line, I have only seen a couple of videos about the Leica factory in Portugal and the Sigma factory in Japan:



I guess it's harder to make cameras with different hardware features, but let's fantasize a little.

Let's imagine that you can configure a camera with three types of screen: folding, tilt or like the S1R ii.

Or you can choose the EVF and its resolution: 2.36M / 3.69M/ 5.70M or 9.44M dot. Or the sensor type and processor, because these two things usually go together.

It would be great if you could choose a stacked sensor and an ultra-fast processor if you're shooting sports or moving animals. But perhaps another photographer would prefer the 61MP sensor and a slower processor. Or for another, the dynamic range of a lower-resolution sensor, like the 12MP one in the Sony A7Siii, is more important.

I'm not saying that you can choose every single piece of a camera, but you can choose 3 or 4 relevant things.

Just like when you configure a laptop on demand.

To use your example: 8K video, from a hardware standpoint, would be a function of the processor, which is then programmed to do 8K video, and the cooling system which keeps the body cool while doing it. The processor is needed for other things like hi-rate burst shooting and handheld hi-res mode, so you can't drop that. And I'm not sure how the cooling system could be made optional - what do you do, leave empty spots in the body where the fans would go? - and I doubt you'd save significant amounts of money on parts by doing so - maybe $5-15 USD?

For example, I'd like my Lumix S5iix with the S1R ii's EVF and screen. Because I don't need the 44MP, 8K video, or internal ProRes RAW recording. In my case, I record podcast interviews that can last more than two hours without interruption. I don't know if recording in 8K would be feasible in terms of overheating and storage.

I think it's great that Lumix offers these options, but if you don't need them you might as well save them. And pay an intermediate price between the S5iix and the S1Rii. That's what I mean, although I understand that asking for this kind of flexibility from camera manufacturers is a bit naive on my part.

 

[dirk]

@Richard Wong

I watched again and again your first Lumix S1Rii video (the very long one). In the autofocus part you said that (always for photography only) the AF of the SRii in some areas is not better than the AF of the S5ii with the newest FW update and in tracking and CAF for people the S1Rii has the edge.

I am above all interested in sport photography and subject detection CAF and tracking the player I am focus on (field hockey). Other players will always be very close and will again and again "cover" my main person, because they run in front of him from time to time.

I use mechanical shutter only.

Could you please elaborate how much the AF of S5ii vs S1Rii differs in these situations and if yes by how much (i.e. significantly or only "scientifically" and not in real life) and whether Panasonic gave a hint that the S5ii will be on par for these AF situations with a future FW update?