S1Rii loan this weekend

[pdk42]

You should loan the 24-60 with it

Ha, I guess I could have tried that. But I have no interest in the 24-60, except curiosity!

 

[Jayneboo]

There's a bit of a wait for a free loan on the new 24-60, guess it's popular just now.

 

[RuleOfThirds]

There's a bit of a wait for a free loan on the new 24-60, guess it's popular just now.

You can always buy and return, although unethical if it’s intentional not to keep it anyway.

 

[pdk42]

So, I got the S1R2. It's nice that the controls, menus, and settings are very nearly the same as on the older cameras so I had it configured to my taste pretty quickly.

As a first test, I did some typical landscape long exposure shots to see what differences I could find. Here is the scene. The exposure is 60s at f16, ISO 100. I used a 10-stop ND and CPL to allow such a long exposure in daylight.

• Panasonic - DC-S1
• LUMIX S 14-28/F4-5.6
• 28.0 mm
• ƒ/16
• 60 sec
• Pattern
• Auto exposure
• 3
• ISO 100

I deliberately under-exposed it to let me do some shadow pushing. I took shots of the same scene (tripod not moved between shots) with the S1, S1R, and S1Rii. I wanted to shoot them all at 28mm, but I somehow managed to nudge the shots with the S1Rii to 31mm so there is a slight magnification difference. This is annoying but doesn't really affect the outcome of the comparison, as you'll see. All are shot raw and processed in LR using default settings apart from WB (set manually using the dropper on the same grey area) and exposure/shadow tweaking as described in the notes below.

1) S1Rii vs S1R
Firstly, here are side-by-side 100% views in LR of the S1R and S1Rii. S1R is on the left. Both images are pushed +2.25 EV and shadows +100 (yes, it's a torture test):



Neither is really accaptable, but the noise on the S1R is obviously much worse.

Here are same two shots again, but this time with LR's "AI" denoise applied at 20%:



The S1Rii is now really clean, but the S1R is to my taste still unacceptably noisy/mushy.

Now let's try turning on long exposure noise reduction at capture time (LENR, aka dark frame subtraction):



Things are a lot better for sure, but I still think the S1R image shows too much noise. The S1Rii is much cleaner.

Now here are the above LENR shots again, but this time with them both having been de-noised with LR's "AI" denoise applied at 20%:



The S1Rii is clearly still the winner, but I can live with the S1R version now.

2) S1Rii vs S1
Now, here is the S1 vs the S1Rii - no NR, no LENR:



So, the S1 is pretty clean, probably slightly cleaner than the S1Rii, but obviously at a lower resolution. However, there is some colour speckling remaining in both.

Here are the same two shots, but 20% denoise applied in LR:


Now they are both very clean - I'm more than happy with both!

Now let's try again with the S1 vs S1Rii, but this time with LENR selected at shooting time. There is no LR denoise applied.



Both are very clean. Adding denoise is clearly unnecessaary.

3) Conclusions

So, here are my conclusions:

	60s, no LENR, no de-noise	60s, no LENR, 20% LR denoise	60s, LENR	60s, LENR, 20% LR denoise
S1R	Unacceptable	Unacceptable	Unacceptable	Acceptable
S1	Almost acceptable	Acceptable	Acceptable	Unnecessary
S1Rii	Almost acceptable	Acceptable	Acceptable	Unnecessary

This could perhaps have been predicted, but it's nonetheless nice to have have the evidence to prove it!

 

[pdk42]

Based on the above, it's clear that the S1Rii is notable better in shadow noise on long exposures - but on its own this isn't enough to convince me that an upgrade is necessary. I don't do that many long exposures like this; and when I do I can use a combination of LENR and a touch of denoise in LR to give me a workable file.

So, next tests will be shadow pushing of non LE shots... watch this space.

 

[pdk42]

Well, I won't bore you all with photos, but looking at regular, short-exposure shots at base ISO (100) of typical landscape scenes, I really can't see any material difference in IQ between the S1R and the S1Rii. The Rii is consistently about a half a stop brighter for the same exposure (ISO calbration?, LR/ACR differences?, lens differences?) but apart from that, there is really nothing to distinguish between them.

 

[HarisO]

Well, I won't bore you all with photos, but looking at regular, short-exposure shots at base ISO (100) of typical landscape scenes, I really can't see any material difference in IQ between the S1R and the S1Rii. The Rii is consistently about a half a stop brighter for the same exposure (ISO calbration?, LR/ACR differences?, lens differences?) but apart from that, there is really nothing to distinguish between them.

Considering that the sensor inside the S1R is supposed to be one of the best around despite it’s age, being about on par is high praise for the S1RII.

 

[Miker]

Thanks Paul. The S1Rii, looks like a nice camera, but for my intended use, hard to justify over what I have.

 

[pdk42]

Thanks Paul. The S1Rii, looks like a nice camera, but for my intended use, hard to justify over what I have.

I have to say, it’s a tough decision really. I’m yet to finish my evaluation, but having just finished a little ISO test, I can see that the S1Rii beats the S1R by about 1.5 to 2 stops at high ISO. In other words, ISO 6400 on the S1Rii is similar to ISO 2000 or so on the S1R. This is almost as good a result as the S1/S5.

So, the S1Rii can give me the ISO and shadow pushing performance of the S1/S5 (well, almost) with the resolution of the S1R. Plus, it has all the latest features and tech, wrapped in a smaller and lighter body. This is really compelling actually since I find myself using the S1R for hard core, camera-on-a-tripod landscape shooting but switch to the S1 if I think I need low light handling. On top of that, I’ll reach for the S5 if I want to travel light (e.g. I took the S5 with me to Japan when I visited last Dec/Jan). I could wrap all these scenarios into one body if I had the S1Rii.

Then, there are improvements like:

- Much better AF
- Live comp, HHHR
- Much better wireless features and mobile app (LUMIX Labs)
- Much faster burst frame rates and pre-capture mode

However, there are a few downsides of course:

- Battery life isn’t great
- Despite their larger size and weight, I think the handling of the S1/S1R is better, as is the perceived build quality/feel
- I’m not a fan of the new rear screen design
- ££££

I think I’ll probably do the upgrade though. I’ll sell both the S1 and S1R but keep the S5 for my backup.

 

[RichardC]

There goes another chunk of the kids' inheritance

I'm keeping the S1R and getting rid of the S5. I'll probably lose the S1R at some point too - possibly after Fairford. I just like the luxury of a spare body.

I'm glad you did the tests so I didn't have to. I haven't noticed any image quality differences yet, however, virtually all of my images have been with flash. Annoyed Panasonic left the sync socket off the S1Rii.

 

[Markuswelder]

I have to say, it’s a tough decision really. I’m yet to finish my evaluation, but having just finished a little ISO test, I can see that the S1Rii beats the S1R by about 1.5 to 2 stops at high ISO. In other words, ISO 6400 on the S1Rii is similar to ISO 2000 or so on the S1R. This is almost as good a result as the S1/S5.

So, the S1Rii can give me the ISO and shadow pushing performance of the S1/S5 (well, almost) with the resolution of the S1R

That is really really interesting. Really interesting. So I'm guessing that by the time you resize the S1RII down to say 2500 pixels wide, they'd be cleaner than the S1/S5? That's a great result, definitely a decent step forward

 

[pdk42]

That is really really interesting. Really interesting. So I'm guessing that by the time you resize the S1RII down to say 2500 pixels wide, they'd be cleaner than the S1/S5? That's a great result, definitely a decent step forward

Yeah, absolutely. Aside from file size, the extra resolution is always of benefit. It would be nice if Panasonic could add a pixel binning small raw option at around 24Mp.