Market share

[Travis Butler]

Ha ha. I have no idea where you live, or even where the battery mega factory is located. But yeah, I don't think that battery cars have had the expected take up in the Western world. A little bit more government intervention and manipulation required perhaps. Hopefully Panasonic doesn't get badly burnt out of the whole circus anyway. Be a shame to see the digital camera division get wiped out through no fault of their own.

I live in Lenexa, on the west edge of the Kansas City metro area, so the Panasonic plant in DeSoto is right up Highway K-7. It's been getting a lot of attention - both for the jobs it will bring to the area, and the tax incentives used to get them to build here.

https://www.kcur.org/news/2025-06-2...pening-but-trumps-policies-could-delay-hiring is a representative story.

 

[pdk42]

Ha ha. I have no idea where you live, or even where the battery mega factory is located. But yeah, I don't think that battery cars have had the expected take up in the Western world. A little bit more government intervention and manipulation required perhaps. Hopefully Panasonic doesn't get badly burnt out of the whole circus anyway. Be a shame to see the digital camera division get wiped out through no fault of their own.

EV sales are doing just fine in most developed economies. In the UK in 2024, BEV market share was 19%. In Norway it’s over 90%, in Denmark, 68% etc.

 

[xaviergut]

I have a question about the famous "market share": why aren't the sales of Leica, Sigma, Blackmagic, DJI (everything related to the L-Mount alliance) added to Panasonic's sales to make this calculation? I mean without the M43 stuff from Panasonic or the Leica not SL stuff, for example.

Or could anyone make the market share calculation of the L-Mount alliance?

 

[pdk42]

I have a question about the famous "market share": why aren't the sales of Leica, Sigma, Blackmagic, DJI (everything related to the L-Mount alliance) added to Panasonic's sales to make this calculation? I mean without the M43 stuff from Panasonic or the Leica not SL stuff, for example.

Or could anyone make the market share calculation of the L-Mount alliance?

That's a good point. It would be interesting to see L-mount aggregated sales compared to the other brands.

 

[Quentinquirelino]

...

Or could anyone make the market share calculation of the L-Mount alliance?

Not calculate it, but estimate it with some assumptions. Panasonic now has something about 8 up to maybe 10 % of full frame. I would think Sigma and Leica, both have less than 1 %. Maybe they have all together 10 % or a little bit less. That would also be the l mount market share, if you only count full frame systems.

But only about 1/3 of all cameras sold are full frame. Because l mount only has full frame, you just can divide the full frame market share by three and get the overall market share of round about 3 %.

 

[Quentinquirelino]

Well, but it's not about the total market. Like I said in my first comment, the total market includes significant proportions of categories in which Panasonic don't even compete. They never produced DSLRs, they dropped fixed lens cameras before they reentered the market for it, they didn't produce cameras for more than 3k and almost none for under 1k. So it doesn't make much sense to look only on the total market share.

But of course it makes sense to look at the market segments they are actually completing and how they are doing there. So they will look in full frame sales and full frame market share. And if you want to do that, you will find out, they are actually doing quite good. Somewhere else, I have read, Panasonic sold more than 200k full frame cameras in 2024 and only the rest of the total 280k sales are m43. The total market volume for full frame in 2024 was something between 2 and 2.5 million. That means they have about 8 to 10 % of the full frame market. That does fit well to the data we have got from Europe and Japan.

Obviously I drastically underestimated the compacts Panasonic still have sold in 2024, despite having discontinued almost everything:

2021–2024 Mirrorless Shipments by Manufacturer: Canon Tops the Chart ahead of Sony | sonyalpharumors

The Nikkei Industry Map Financial Yearbook includes detailed shipment data for Japanese mirrorless camera manufacturers, offering an exact breakdown of the global camera market: 2024 Canon: 2.05 million units Sony: 1.63 million units Nikon: 760,000 units Fujifilm: 490,000 units Panasonic...

www.sonyalpharumors.com

I thought I read somewhere, they sold about 200k full frame, but it was only that they sell about three times as much full frame than m43. That said with 160k mirrorless, it has to be about 120k full frame. That means there market share is probably below 8 % in full frame.

 

[pdk42]

Obviously I drastically underestimated the compacts Panasonic still have sold in 2024, despite having discontinued almost everything:

2021–2024 Mirrorless Shipments by Manufacturer: Canon Tops the Chart ahead of Sony | sonyalpharumors

The Nikkei Industry Map Financial Yearbook includes detailed shipment data for Japanese mirrorless camera manufacturers, offering an exact breakdown of the global camera market: 2024 Canon: 2.05 million units Sony: 1.63 million units Nikon: 760,000 units Fujifilm: 490,000 units Panasonic...

www.sonyalpharumors.com

I thought I read somewhere, they sold about 200k full frame, but it was only that they sell about three times as much full frame than m43. That said with 160k mirrorless, it has to be about 120k full frame. That means there market share is probably below 8 % in full frame.

Ooch - so Panasonic market share of mirrorless is just 3% !

 

[Quentinquirelino]

Ooch - so Panasonic market share of mirrorless is just 3% !

Yes, that what it looks like.

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

Wow, Canon really is a monster, even after their late entry to mirrorless. It's no wonder they get away with stuff like denying third parties access to manufacture lenses at will and orphaning their mounts - people just buy their cameras anyway.

 

[pdk42]

I really hope the new-gen S1 models can turn the tide. I can't see a lot of future for a mass market brand like Panasonic if they can't get more than 3% of the market.

 

[Quentinquirelino]

I really hope the new-gen S1 models can turn the tide. I can't see a lot of future for a mass market brand like Panasonic if they can't get more than 3% of the market.

I still think you can't tell much by the market share. If you think full frame is only about 1/3 of the mirrorless market and m43 is even less, not even 5 %. The majority is APS-C, what Panasonic doesn't offer. They are only targeting about 35 % of the market. That means Panasonic would need over 30 % of the full frame market to get about 10 % of the total market. Even if you are totally positive, that's unrealistic.

To get a significant push in market share, they would have to release some cheaper APS-C cameras.

But there's a catch. Even so APS-C is dominating the market, it's a declining market with thinner margins, like m43 is. The big three, Canon, Nikon and Sony, although having APS-C and selling them in big numbers, they don't invest mich in it.

Wow, Canon really is a monster, even after their late entry to mirrorless. It's no wonder they get away with stuff like denying third parties access to manufacture lenses at will and orphaning their mounts - people just buy their cameras anyway.

Canon is a very good example. They selling R100s like hot cakes, what increases the market share. But they can't sell them with a high margin.

Canon Misses Profit Projections in 2024 Despite Strong Camera Sales

Canon's imaging segment performed well in 2024, although the company's overall profits are down.

petapixel.com

Panasonic could easily add APS-C to their L-Mount lineup. But they don't do it.

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

Bear in mind that the price of APS-C cameras has gone up a lot in the last few years, in many cases higher than FF models (which was unthinkable ten years ago) and I see no reason for that trend not to continue. Even the cheapest Fujifilm models cost as much as an S9 or S5D. APS-C is on the decline because anyone who wants more than the cheapest Canon or Sony will spend a bit more to get FF and much better quality. Of course there are exceptions - people who want the crop factor for telephoto, those who love Fujifilm's classic looks or "film sims" - but the main reason I came to the L-mount was that my APS-C upgrade path would have been more expensive than going to FF mirrorless.

 

[pdk42]

Despite starting my digital photography journey with APSC ( a Canon 350d / Digital Rebel), I’ve never really had a lot of enthusiasm for it. I upgraded to Canon FF DSLR (5Dii) quite soon and then later switched to m43 in the Olympus E-M5 era since the IQ differences were actually quite small. When I ran out of road on m43, APSC didn’t even enter my mind. Not even the faux old school gestalt of Fuji tempted me!

 

[Pete_W]

I really hope the new-gen S1 models can turn the tide. I can't see a lot of future for a mass market brand like Panasonic if they can't get more than 3% of the market.

I don't think Lumix is trying to be a mass market product like other Panasonic products. Lumix is more like Technics, a small player with premium products carving out a niche. Panasonic's move into FF was wise given that the point & shoot market was killed by smartphones and the m4/3 market is being squeezed from both sides. Lumix is not trying to be Canon or Sony.

 

[Markuswelder]

I don't think Lumix is trying to be a mass market product like other Panasonic products. Lumix is more like Technics, a small player with premium products carving out a niche. Panasonic's move into FF was wise given that the point & shoot market was killed by smartphones and the m4/3 market is being squeezed from both sides. Lumix is not trying to be Canon or Sony.

Precisely. Which is why I mentioned Toughbooks. They have a plan for those, and it obviously works. I see FF cameras that cater or lean more towards video/hybrid shooters than stills, as more of the same.