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Rumors Lumix S9 vs rumored Fuji XM5

dirk

LMF-Founder
Administrator
Hi,

maybe some of you have heard alraedy the rumor of a new Fujifilm camera. It shall be announced on October 14th and will be called "XM5". It seems a successor of the XM1, which was available only for around one year. According to the rumors the XM5 seems be exactly the same as the Lumix S9, but with an APS-C sensor. No EVF, 26MP, interchangable lenses (X-Mount obviously). Target group seems to be "creators". Price level around 1.000€.

I am really curious, how this Fuji XM5 will be discussed in social media. Fuji has no small lenses anymore. The very old 18/2.0 is not really a good lens for 26MP. So they have the same problem like Panasonic. Small bodies without small lenses.

At least we know now, that other brands have the same thinking as Panasonic. There is a market for this target group and for this kind of "no EVF body". Similar to Panasonic, maybe even more, although Fuji is a photography focused brand, they want to gain a piece of that "creators cake" too.

It is a shame how the S9 was bashed by some youtubers. Watch and see how the same youtubers will suddenly rave about the "Lumix S9 copy" of Fuji. Teufel Grinsend Schwanz
 
Thing is...

The S9 looked/looks like a sexy Fuji-Leica mix. The more streamlined design means I take it out instead of my pen F.
But many people who want that are "classic-older" generation who want or need a viewfinder. See Gordon L, who is quite a fan of Lumix, but he said "for me, no viewfinder is a bummer because I need it". For 95% of people, who otherwise shoot with phones, that is not a problem at all. The lack of mechanical shutter- I have yet to see any issue with it, in my pics or anybodies.
But that first impression was negative because of that.
The other camp is the video guys. They saw a mini S5ii, but then they were bummed by the limits. As I am not a professional videographer, I am not sure, other than boring events, what the use is for clips over 10 minutes straight. Would you ever handhold 10 minutes? It seems to me that other cameras should be the professional choice for that.
Maybe they feared overheating. I have had the S9 and sony ZVE1 next to each other- and the sony overheated where the S9 was happy.
But the sour aftertaste of "spec warriors" spoiled the launch.

Then the sour grapes of those not invited created the histeria "invited = shill", which is partly true, but hardly a Lumix thing- if anything, the contrary. Recently there was a pointless Sony event and I saw nobody complaining how those creators will be shills... And that event was not even any launch, so there was zero "journalistic" interest... But I digress.

Back to the topic, the Fuji will probably be a nice camera, better option than the fixed lens versions, and the lack of truly small lenses is ok. I use the S9 with the 20-60 all the time and it balances perfectly without a grip. Customers of Fuji will like the flattop design.

I really think the S9 will become a cult product, one of those cameras people will pay more for once discontinued. I love mine, and IQ is as high as it gets in FF, with the slow but noise-free sensor that this generation uses.
 
I really think the S9 will become a cult product, one of those cameras people will pay more for once discontinued. I love mine, and IQ is as high as it gets in FF, with the slow but noise-free sensor that this generation uses.
Totally agree. I love my S9. It's the camera that I prefer to take most places, that I love to hold, and is so fun to use.

I will be taking a close look at the new 18-40mm lens. Waiting patiently for @Richard Wong 's review! Z04 Flucht
 
I guess I qualify as “classic older” but my desire for an EVF is nothing to do with my eyesight. If anything, as a wearer of glasses/specs, the screen can be more convenient, especially so if the eyepoint of the EVF is too close making the edges of the frame hard to see unless you take your glasses off.

No, the reason I want an EVF is twofold:

- Screens can be impossible to see properly in strong sunlight.

- Holding the camera to the eye significantly improves stability for handholding. This is especially true as the focal length increases.

Screens are useful for sure, but so are EVFs. I’ve tried using cameras without EVFs in the past and have always ended up selling them. As appealing as the S9 form factor is, I’m not making the mistake again of buying a camera without an EVF.
 
If anything, as a wearer of glasses/specs, the screen can be more convenient, especially so if the eyepoint of the EVF is too close making the edges of the frame hard to see unless you take your glasses off.
I Agree, I see a lot better on the screen than trough the viewfinder.
S5 viewfinder didn't work for me.
S5iiX viewfinder did a bit for me, but even with the third party 'bigger cup' I don't like it.

- Screens can be impossible to see properly in strong sunlight.
Not often but a view times it happend. I have the screen on maximum brightness as standard.
Holding the camera to the eye significantly improves stability for handholding. This is especially true as the focal length increases.
I shoot ofcourse mostly video, and then I shoot from the hip. Very stable and a better height for me, I'm quite tall and on eye level the video looks 'to much' down.
 
Maybe I was wrong about the XM5. I thought that the XM5 would be a body for interchangeble lenses. But this marketing photo from Fuji shows something different.

This looks more like a tiny compact camera with a build in lens. No Fuji X-Mount. With a Fuji X Mount, you would never be able to put it in your jeans pocket.
Therefore the Fuji XM5 seems more a second try to compete against the Ricoh GR3/3x or Leica Q3/Q3 43 (with less MP)

Fuji_XM5.jpg
 
I do not know how they made the product shot above (in the jeans pocket) with a real Fuj XM5, but the newest images from the rumor sites below show a Fuji XM5 with the X-lens mount for interchangeble lenses.

Well, it seem that my original assumption is correct and Fuji is offering a kind of S9 copy, but with an APS-C sensor.

Fuji_XM5_rumor.jpg

Today is the press release about the XM5 at 2pm London time. I am curious whether the same "influencers", who reported negatively about the Lumix S9, rave now about the XM5... Teufel Grinsend Schwanz
 
Hmm - no EVF either I see.

Exactly. This is why i am so curious about the receiption of the Fuji XM 5 in the public compared to the Lumix S9. As far as I can see it, they do the same except sensor size.

And if I want to have a compact camera with an APS-C sensor, I would rather take a Ricoh GR3 or GR3x. These are even smaller than a XM5.
 
It is too early. The reviewers either have only a pre-production model or none at all. But the XM5 is a S9 with APS-C sensor plus a Mic input and real hot shoe at a very aggressive price (around 800). It lacks IBIS though and the OIS of the XM5 makes a very big crops.

Noone knows whether it will overheat. My intention with this thread was only to show, that other brands hop on the "creator" wagon too. But as expected, noone is criticizing Fuji not to include an EVF - But they did with the S9. Z04 Haudrauf

Hot shoe or Mic input is not that important for vloggers anymore. Nowadays you use a DJI or Rode wireless mic with recording possibility within the mic. So if I would be a creator, I would weight IBIS a lot more than Mic input or hot shoe.

Plus there is this FF vs. APS-C question, everyone has to decide for himself. The only advantage of the XM5 is the price IMHO. Alle the rest is in my view with the Lumix S9 better.

 
If you are doing street photography, then fuji may well be suitable. A lightweight camera for every day, but their pancakes are 18 and 27mm from an optical point of view not very good. Maybe they'll re-release something specifically for the m5. That would be logical. I once had a Fujifilm system, which is quite interesting, but now very expensive optics have become comparable to the prices of full-frame lenses.
 
I once had a Fujifilm system, which is quite interesting, but now very expensive optics have become comparable to the prices of full-frame lenses.

I still have my Fuji system, but the newer Fuji lenses, which are optically better than the older ones, are almost the same size and weight than the Lumix/Sigma lenses. Sometimes even bigger. In most cases you need to buy Sigma for Fuji Mount to save space and weight.

LMount_vs_Fuji.jpg
 
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I have to say that I have no interest in Fuji stuff. It's mainly because I shoot stills only and I shoot in raw; and X-trans is a PITA for raw processing. On top of that, in general I think APSC is neither fish nor fowl (a good proverb to look up for the non-native English speakers). The IQ isn't a lot better than m43 yet inferior to FF. And of course, apart from Fuji, the other players generally have a rather limited lens range dedicated to APSC.
 
I can only talk for myself and for my current view on this (based on the products available now). But In my situation, Fuji can be only a competition to MFT in case MFT will not be pushed further.

But compared to fullframe, Fuji has the problem that they need to make many new lenses, which have to be bigger and heavier to keep the image quality of a 40MP sensor vs. fullframe. At the same time the FF lenses are getting so small, that it is not really worth it to pick the smaller APS-C sensor.

in general I think APSC is neither fish nor fowl (a good proverb to look up for the non-native English speakers)

we have in German the same phrase (weder Fisch noch Fleisch).

I think the FF-MFT combination is the best compromise. Either best image quality or smallest size with "only" very good image quality. You can pick what is more important for you.

If only Panasonic would bring out smaller MFT bodies and 20-24MP sensors, which do not create file sizes of 40MB.
 
In dutch we say: 'vlees noch vis'...

I agree with Paul and Dirk, yet Fuji has a cult status what Panasonic (Lumix) doesn't have.

But for myself I definitely prefer Lumix
 
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