Lumix S1Rii & sports photography - AF settings, burst modes etc.

[dirk]

I want to try out the S1Rii this week for sports photography. For field hockey. That means erratic and unpredictal movements. Shutter speed has to be at least around 1/1000s and it has to be mechanical shutter, otherwise the hockey sticks will look weired

The manual of the Lumix S1Rii is around 945 pages. Wow.... Fortunately only a few pages are about the options for settings this camera up for sports photography. But still, it is complicated and no right or wrong for every kind of sports. To make it even more complicated, you have different image quality options (12bit RAW vs 14 bit RAW) available depending on which burst mode you chose.

Also different tracking options might work or might even not be available, depending what other settings you have in combination with. LAst but mot least, with 44MP, you have writings and buffer speed limitations, depending on whether you use a SD card or a CF express card.

I start this thread to collect over the time the experience from me and others, which settings might lead to the best results for your kind of sports photography. So, please mention always first what kind of sport you take pictures of.

First, let's have a look at what the manual sais. This is a good starting point to get familar with the different alternatives.



















There is also a video from @Sean_at_LUMIX about the Lumix S1Rii and a short 10 minutes part in it covers the AF settings for video and photo quickly. Worth to look at:




Regarding writing speed.

I tested both, Jpeg only and RAW & Jepg at the same time. There is a huge difference in writings speed and clearing the buffer, if you select the CFexpress card in your menu. I changed my buttons in the Q-Menu accordingly, to be able to switch fast between SD card and CFexpress card. I prefer in normal situations the SD card, because it is easier to use it with a laptop, if the laptop has an internal SD card reader.

Both cards are from Sandisk. Both are Extreme Pro. The 64GB CFexpress card has read 1500MB/s, write 800 MB/s. This is an older card. I guess there are faster ones available nowadays, but I do not know whether the processor of the Lumix S1Rii is the bottle neck. The 128GB SD card has 170MB/s read speed and writing only 90MB/s.

I will test soon the different AF settings and write about the outcome. I am eager to read here your experiences.

 

[dirk]

here is an explanation about the possibility to change the AF sensitivity of the Lumix S1Rii, which is neutral as default:

 

[Pete_W]

Regarding cards for the S1RM2, here is a link the cards that Panasonic says are compatible:

DC-S1RM2 Compatibilities of Storage Devices

Sean mentioned in a recent webcast that S1RM2 owners should refer to this list because using non-compatible cards may lead to premature overheating of the camera.

 

[dirk]

ok, my cards are really old (around 5 years). They are not listed there anymore. The new SD card standard is V90II, That is 300MB/s read & 260MB/s write, For video, CFexpress is the better choice, but I do not need it for video, only for sports photography and there will be no overheating risk in my view.

The newer V90II generation of Sandisk Extreme Pro cards is quite expensive...



For CFexpress, only the most expensive Sandisk CFexpress cards (around 300€) can deliver on the Lumix S1RII. This is with 320GB, There is no 128GB card in that line. Only from other brands, There are many "no" or "*" with restrictions in this table...

The question is, whether the processor of the Lumix S1Rii can send/write faster than the read/write speed of my old CFexpress card with 1500MB/s - 800 MB/s

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

Be sure and do a low-level format on your CFe card - it's an option in the final verification screen when formatting the card. It significantly reduced the buffer-clear time on my S1RII. Also, if you shoot raw-only, that helps reduce the time as well. I'm using an older SanDisk too, but have a ProGrade 1TB card arriving today, which has a much higher sustained write speed, and runs cooler, than the SanDisk. I'll do some tests to see if it affects the time to clear the buffer. Perhaps it will also help battery life a little.

I did some shooting the other day in a velodrome, using H+ and H, and nearly all my shots were in focus - I was quite happy with that. I think I was in Set 1 most of the time. Used bike recognition mode, but left it to "entire subject" and did not experiment with helmet priority. I'm going to try that in future events.

Of course, Ice Hockey is another animal. There is actually a good thread over on the DPR L-mount forum that was started by a self-described "rink rat" who is experimenting with the S1R II. It's a good read; probably worth your time. He said that other than Olympus, no other camera vendor's face recognition works well with ice hockey.

• Panasonic - DC-S1RM2
• LUMIX S 70-200/F2.8
• 119.0 mm
• ƒ/4
• 1/80 sec
• Pattern
• Manual exposure
• ISO 80

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

For CFexpress, only the most expensive Sandisk CFexpress cards (around 300€) can deliver on the Lumix S1RII. This is with 320GB, There is no 128GB card in that line. Only from other brands, There are many "no" or "*" with restrictions in this table...

Yes, and it's important to read the footnotes. For most of the Prograde cards, it says that you must update the firmware of the card for it to be acceptable for the demanding video modes. Before seeing this table, I didn't even know you could do that to a CFe card. Turns out it is specific to ProGrade, and you need one of their readers to do that. Fortunately I already have a ProGrade reader (they are fast!) so I decided to go with a ProGrade card, as they are both fast and reasonably cool. But, again, I'm waiting to see if their high sustained write performance has any impact in the S1R II.

The Sandisk Pro Cinema cards were called out specifically by Sean as being good, and these were the cards that were being given away with Pre-orders in the U.S. I filled out my form but never received the follow-up email that gives you the code to use in the SanDisk website. So I ordered the ProGrade, as I wanted a 1 TB card anyway.

 

[dirk]

I will reformat my cards, but I doubt that I will buy new cards. I will rather wait until i see that I really need faster cards. Til then prices might be even cheaper or new brands with cheaper products might be added to that list.

Another issue is ISO setting. Depending on weather and indoor or outdoor sports, you may choose different base ISO. For photography the lower base ISO is 80, the higher is ISO400. For video it is 160/800 (not in vlog)

Here Sean explains how to find it out:

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

I will reformat my cards, but I doubt that I will buy new cards. I will rather wait until i see that I really need faster cards.

For me it was more about capacity. My CFe Sandisk is 128 MB. While that has been fine for "normal" shooting, I've found that it's shockingly easy to fill that when shooting sports/wildlife (or, presumably, high-bandisth video).

 

[dirk]

My CFe Sandisk is 128 MB - it's shockingly easy to fill that when shooting sports/wildlife

oh dear.... that becomes expensive for me with this 44MP sensor...


Here is another (repeated) recommendation from Sean for sports & wildlife photography: use the AF sensitivite options with the "set 3" & "set 4". The difference/improvement in AF for sports and wildlife will be significant.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

oh dear.... that becomes expensive for me with this 44MP sensor...

Yes indeed!

I will also say that buffer-clear time wasn't an issue for me when shooting the velodrome at 10 fps. It really only becomes an issue for me when shooting 40 fps, but then I'm sure the ice hokey action comes fast & furious, so you may run into it even at 10 fps.

Here is another (repeated) recommendation from Sean for sports & wildlife photography: use the AF sensitivite options with the "set 3" & "set 4". The difference/improvement in AF for sports and wildlife will be significant.

Yes, I do need to experiment with that more. Back in the day I spent a fair amount of time experimenting with these modes with the S1R before I gave up - they just didn't seem to make much of a difference. Would not surprise me to find that these settings are more meaningful & useful with the higher performance S1R II AF system, however.

 

[dirk]

I do not know whether the processor of the Lumix S1Rii is the bottle neck.

Sean confirmed, that the L2 processor in the S1Rii is a different one than in the S5ii. But we do not know whether this will have an impact on the AF speed or accuracy.

 

[dirk]

ok, next step. Now I try to find out what the best settings are, which I will test then in real life during field hockey.

• Image size: L (Fine)
• Image file: Jpeg only (because it is only a 64GB card)
• AFC (set in the menu for AF to "balance")
• Mechanical shutter
• Setting H (with live view)
• I set "image priority" in the menu for the burst mode settings, not "speed priority"
• No special eye or body or human tracking (I am still in the office)
• No AF sensitivity fine tuning (set to the default, not the "Set 3" for soccer etc or "Set 4", which was recommend above)

I formatted (low-level) the old CF express card. I have to search whether there are FW updates for the old card. But atm, everything with the old FW (I do not know yet where to find these FW updates for the cards at Sandisk)

64GB Sandisk CFexpress Extreme Pro (read - write: 1500MB/s - 800 MB/s)

• 122 images until the buffer starts to chocke
• Around 33 images within 5 seconds, which is around 7 images per second. Like it was written in the manual for -> AFC, machanical shutter, Jpeg, H and image priority.
• It takes another 4-5 seconds until the red light stops flashing (=buffer cleared). But I could have continued a lot longer.

In real life I would do 33 images in a row only a few times in extreme situations. Usually, I press the shutte only for 2-3 seconds.
But 7fps is sometimes too slow to catch the right moment, i.e. if a face is temporarley hidden by another player. 9fps would be better. The S1Rii is able to to shoot at 9 and 10fps and mechanical shutter. But there is a catch. See below:



In mode "H+" i do not have live view. In mode "H" I have in AFC maximum 8fps, if I switch to "speed priority".
If I switch to AFS, I have more fps (9 or 10, depending on my settings), but no live view. Mmmmmhhh....

I have to compare that with my S5ii. I never read the manual of my S5ii

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

For the record, H+ gives you blackout-free shooting; H does not, making it harder to follow the action. The "Live View" column in the above table is a bit confusing.

H+ also gives you "normal" AF, while H gives you "Estimated." However, H gives you updated exposure with every frame, while with H+, your exposure is locked by the first frame. Additionally, H gives you tracking while H+ does not - you have to rely on subject detection whilst choosing one of the AF modes other than tracking.

It's all quite confusing. Here is a table I have made that should help:



I found H+ to work well in the velodrome time trials, but in hockey the need for tracking might be more important than a blackout-free experience. I'd suggest trying both; it would be good to hear what worked best for you.

 

[dirk]

I compared other cameras with the S1Rii regarding burst mode.



It is intersting, that the S1Rii has the same burst speed with Jpeg only as with RAW & Jepg at the same time. Only the clearing of the buffer takes longer. Twice as long. For 33 images around 10 seconds instead of 5.

But this could be also the fault of my old CFexpress card. newer, faster CFexpress card might empty the buffer twice as fast, because of their almost 2x write speed.

It is impressive how fast the old Lumix G9 and Olympus EM1 Markt iii is. Of course it is a smaller sensor and less MP. But if you do not need fullframe, you can not beat the Oly EM1.3

 

[dirk]

H gives you tracking while H+ does not - you have to rely on subject detection whilst choosing one of the AF modes other than tracking.

This will be another difficulty to find out. I never used all the different kinds of tracking modes and AF preferences in the past, because they were never reliable enough. I only used AFS. Keep it simple...

I have not yet found a detailed explanation of all the different AF tracking and subject detection modes in the S1Rii and how they might work with or against each other. I guess there is a difference between the results in the settings of the S1Rii and older Lumix cameras.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

This will be another difficulty to find out. I never used all the different kinds of tracking modes and AF preferences in the past, because they were never reliable enough. I only used AFS. Keep it simple...

I have not yet found a detailed explanation of all the different AF tracking and subject detection modes in the S1Rii and how they might work with or against each other. I guess there is a difference between the results in the settings of the S1Rii and older Lumix cameras.

With H+, you have to use Subject Detection with one of the 5 Area/Zone Modes since Tracking will be disabled. You might just start with 1-Area since you are used to it. And, subject detection might work with field hockey (as compared to ice hockey) as I *think* they wear less safety gear, and the camera might recognize them as human. What you will notice with any of the area modes while subject detection is enabled is that the camera might jump from one subject (person) to another if more than one subject is in the focus area. It certainly happened to me when there were two or more bikes in the area/zone.

In H, Tracking becomes enabled and should do a better job of sticking to your chosen subject. In some ways, it's like 1-Area in that it's just a box over which you can control the size. One you grab the player, you should be able to follow the action and/or change your composition and, if Tracking is doing it's job, it won't drop the subject. Good luck!