Has the S5 Reached the End of The Line?

[Markuswelder]

The main feature that really 'grabs' me on the S5 II so far is the ability to store multiple sets of manual lens info in memory and switch between them when you switch lenses. ^^;; Which seems like the kind of thing that might be possible to do in firmware, but only if the S5's image processing system has a place available in non-volatile storage to store that data; since IIRC they changed the processor in the S5 II, the new processor may have more storage area than the old one.

The IBIS improvements would also be nice, but they're something that almost certainly had a hardware change behind them, so that would require an actual upgrade.

I bought my S5 about 6 months ago, deliberately, because it had DFD. I'm a big fan of DFD. And don't have any intention of running non L mount lenses.I knew it was end of life, as the MkII was on sale at the same time. I bought it for what it is, not what I wished it might become. And at the right price. Under $2000 Australian from memory, with the 20-60mm. That's a fabulous little lens. I also picked up the Lumix 50mm f1.8, for under $400 Australian too. Kicking myself I didn't grab the Lumix 85mm f1.8 for $620 I think it was at the time. I've also picked up the Sigma 28-70mm f2.8, another brilliant lens. They all AF like demons, whatever I point them at. Stationary, or fast moving subjects. I honestly don't know what all the kerfuffle is over DFD for stills photography. It. Just. Works. I haven't touched a single setting in the AF menu's, just switch between AFS & AFC, point it at the subject, and press the shutter. That's it. I don't need any updates there.
Yeah, everyone wants something that suits their wants/needs, so go buy it. That's not the camera or firmwares issue

 

[Oíche]

If original S5 does everything you want then keep it, no point upgrading for the sake of it.

I can't see a reason for a S1ii, definitely a HR version maybe in smaller body than before as this is what sells as smaller and lighter is what most want.

One issue messing with us here is that if you consider YT videos our beloved S5ii is mostly still being reviewed by videographers and not photographers. Yes it is still considered a video camera as opposed to a stills camera.

Hence why reviewers talking b-roll, run and gun, v-log, grading or other video speak I kind of hate as I don't get it or care much.

I'm a photographer who enjoys the new founded video capability for usually landscape or birding with 300mm but zero interest in selfie vlogging etc. which seems the main interest and for PDAF also so I can understand the S5 "does me fine".

 

[Erik_A]

If you don't buy any new lenses, than you may not need a firmware update. Just keep rolling with what you have. The S5 is such a great low light still photography camera, especially with the black and white work that I do: (see my IG @erikannis - the latest B&W's are from the S5).

 

[Oíche]

If you don't buy any new lenses, than you may not need a firmware update. Just keep rolling with what you have. The S5 is such a great low light still photography camera, especially with the black and white work that I do: (see my IG @erikannis - the latest B&W's are from the S5).

For your needs yes indeed, the same for landscapes etc. I mostly do similar but also birding, sports and moving stuff. Since switching from Pentax I've also started taking video and the cropped high stability 4k is brilliant with 4k, I've also got images with S5ii I couldn't do before. With the great combo deal as a newcomer the S5ii was a no brainer but that doesn't mean the S5 is somehow obsolete and you can therefore use it for decades if it lasts.

 

[CH_CH]

What seems to be happening is that the S5OG was made on the platform that was made at the time. If you will, lets say windows 7. The newer ones are Windows 11, and the team at the manufacturer would have a hard time porting new features to the old platform.
It is probably related to Linux kernels, but that is besides the point.
As for me, seeing such low S5 prices makes me want to pounce for a second body for only landscapes and static portraits... Must resist the GAS...

 

[dirk]

I am pretty sure that you will get for the S5 also updates - if at all necessary - for new lenses. Not all new lenses require a firmware update in a body. Any kind of improvements of the PD AF will not apply to the S5 anyway. So there is no need for a new S5 FW update.

The S5 becomes nowadays a bargain. If you get it second hand between 500-700€, it will be the best and cheapest fullframe camera.

If I would not wait for a rangefinder style body, I would buy a S5 @500€ immediately as a second body. No need to swap lenses anymore.

And the S5 is smaller than the S5ii. I was happy with the S5 and its AF. The viewfinder is good enough too. What else do you need? Invest the saved money in lenses or in a photo trip or become an LMF Patron

 

[Markuswelder]

As for me, seeing such low S5 prices makes me want to pounce for a second body for only landscapes and static portraits...

It's much, much better than that

 

[robin0112358]

I consider it sad that a camera still in production has stopped receiving improvements to the firmware. There is still plenty that can be done to make this a better camera, starting with the obvious limitations of the interface that I won't bang on about here.

It's equally strange to me that the S5 MkII is missing some of the S5 features. Surely a multiple-exposure mode could be added? Don't tell me that the hardware cannot support it!

It is obviously true that "You buy a camera for the use cases you have at the time of buying" as I believe Dirk said above. But that is not the end of the story. If it was, then the MkII would not have received improvements to the AF that are getting rave reviews. A camera is a computer. It can be improved in many ways for years after the initial sale.

This is what I expect of a professional company selling products for thousands of clams.

 

[ChrisM]

Why should Panasonic continue to make improvements to the S5? What is the incentive for them? As long as it continues to work in the manner it was purchased it doesn't make sense for them to continue to add new functionality to such an old model. Probably isn't in production any longer - just existing stock. Much better for Panasonic for you to see the new feature and go buy a new one.

 

[dirk]

There are improvements you can make via firmware. But not all of them. If a faster hardware is required to run algorithms fast enough, you need to buy the camera with the faster hardware. As far as I remember, the S5ii has a new and faster hardware in it.

About other features or firmware update we can debate, but in a niche market I can understand that the brand needs to make money. We will not get a S5mk3, if the company does not earn enough to finance the R&D for it.

Strategically I find it smart to keep the S5 still available and not putting with firmware the latest and greatest in it. Same as Sony does with its 6xxx series and A7xxx series. Thanks to this, you allow a huge price discount for newbies in the system without destroying the reputation of the brand by cutting the official prices too much.

 

[robin0112358]

Why should Panasonic continue to make improvements to the S5? What is the incentive for them?

Because otherwise I will regard them as a cheap consumer company like Sony and so many others. No loyalty from me if no loyalty is shown to me.

I have an RME sound card more than two decades old and not sold in half that time. RME still support it with updates... including new features. That's what I expect of a professional company. That's why I now own THREE of their products. And am happy to recommend them above all others.

 

[Oíche]

Because otherwise I will regard them as a cheap consumer company like Sony and so many others. No loyalty from me if no loyalty is shown to me.

I have an RME sound card more than two decades old and not sold in half that time. RME still support it with updates... including new features. That's what I expect of a professional company. That's why I now own THREE of their products. And am happy to recommend them above all others.

Those are updates just so the soundcard can work on modern OS, you can't equate that to adding functionality continually to a camera for 20 years which it didn't originally have. If you put an S5 in a box, take it out in 20 years it will still work exactly like today.

 

[AlanC]

Those are updates just so the soundcard can work on modern OS, you can't equate that to adding functionality continually to a camera for 20 years which it didn't originally have. If you put an S5 in a box, take it out in 20 years it will still work exactly like today.

A lot of manufacturers don't even meet the equivalent of that level of support. For example, if I were to try to use Fujifilm's new 150-600mm zoom on my X-Pro2 then features such as the programmable buttons on the lens wouldn't work because updates stopped back in 2010. The camera has the ability to customise function buttons, it just never got extended to handle buttons on the lens.

Contrast that with RME: when Apple changed the macOS driver model in version 10.9, moving device drivers out of the kernel, RME were one of the few companies that were ready, and that support extended to drivers for older devices that were no longer in production. In contrast a lot of other companies took the opportunity to abandon support for older products: I've got several bits of audio related hardware that became useless as a result.

RME really do set a far higher standard than just about any other company I've encountered. I have one of their audio interfaces: it's 10 years old, has been utterly dependable, and while no longer in production is still receiving support, as is its predecessor. And they've earned my loyalty as a result.

 

[dirk]

Because otherwise I will regard them as a cheap consumer company like Sony and so many others. No loyalty from me if no loyalty is shown to me.

The only solution is in my view to buy then a Leica.

But even Leica trashed their R-System. Quite bad if you think about the prices you had to pay for that gear.

We are living in a modern world. Wars are fighted nowadays with drones. You can not expect the industry to ignore this new way of fast technological changes. Everybody has to adapt. The producers and the consumers.

 

[Oíche]

Wars are fighted nowadays with drones

Off topic but it is scary, I've watched footage, when you extrapolate it is no good in the end for us all. It really is, it is possibly worse than nuclear weapons and could facilitate their use. Why can't they just argue about autofocus instead like us?

 

[ChrisM]

Because otherwise I will regard them as a cheap consumer company like Sony and so many others. No loyalty from me if no loyalty is shown to me.

I have an RME sound card more than two decades old and not sold in half that time. RME still support it with updates... including new features. That's what I expect of a professional company. That's why I now own THREE of their products. And am happy to recommend them above all others.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. There was no promise from Panasonic that they'd provide new functionality when I bought my S5 and I remain very happy with it. I wish that they continue providing firmware updates with new functionality but certainly do not expect it.

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

The S5 won't get any more firmware updates bar lens support not because of it's circuitry but because Panasonic want it to become increasingly obsolete so that they can sell more mark IIs plus whatever replaces the S1. It's a shame as simply adding a change to add focal length to the EXIF when using manual lenses would be enough for me.

 

[Oíche]

The S5 won't get any more firmware updates bar lens support not because of it's circuitry but because Panasonic want it to become increasingly obsolete so that they can sell more mark IIs plus whatever replaces the S1. It's a shame as simply adding a change to add focal length to the EXIF when using manual lenses would be enough for me.

??? It definitely is hardware limited, not maybe for adding focal length to EXIF but for almost everything else.

Obsolete? What business can continue be a business without releasing new gear? Pentax? That cult has been crying for new gear for years and never got it, that's why I ditched it.

 

[cascadian]

One user's End of the Line is another's At Last I Can Afford One!

I sent off my a7r², e-lenses and a few μ43/PK odds & ends, got a lowball offer but a clean closet, and my S5 + 20-60 dream team. As @Oiche notes, less cash back - but it's no longer my clutter or an eBay nightmare.

I couldn't be more optimistic about what this offers, many steps up from the aged alpha and new features to play with. I prefer touch:AF videos so pdaf isn't a killer. I still have my GX7 and never faulted its focus. And lower-res finder says longer battery life when I see it it in reviews.

To you whose incomes allow the step up to newer bodies and help fund R&D for us all, my humble thanks!

 

[Markuswelder]

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. There was no promise from Panasonic that they'd provide new functionality when I bought my S5 and I remain very happy with it. I wish that they continue providing firmware updates with new functionality but certainly do not expect it.

This^^^^^^^^^ I buy cameras for what they can do RIGHT NOW. Not what I wish or hope they might a year or so down the track. As long as my S5 keeps working just as it does now, I'm a very happy camper. Because that's exactly what I paid for, when I bought it.