Where is the S1 mark ii?

[pdk42]

We had this stupid video a month or so ago saying the S1ii (probably H version) would arrive in days. Clearly it didn’t (and given lack of other rumours it always seemed highly unlikely to me that it would), but nonetheless we’re surely due an S1 ii this year. Having just let my S1R go due to its weight and size, I’m really hoping for a more compact mark ii version and will almost certainly buy one if it is. But I’m impatient!

 

[Lsake]

My guess is they are waiting until the S5iiX release before they say anything about the higher end models. So possibly we will hear more in May/June.

The S5ii PDAF system would be a big advantage for me in some situations, but I am stubbornly holding out to see the higher end models before committing.

 

[Quentinquirelino]

My guess is they are waiting until the S5iiX release before they say anything about the higher end models. So possibly we will hear more in May/June.

That is what I think too. Doesn't make much sense to announce a new camera before the last announcement hit the market. Also the first source, which leaked the S5II, gave some kind of roadmap. The source predicted the S5II for Q1 and S1II for Q3. We just got into Q2 now. I would expect the S1II announcement not before July therefore. There also could be a double announcement of S1II and S1HII or S1II and S1RII or a triple announcement of all three together. However think the S1RII will not come at all, because I believe the S1II will get a significant resolution and performance increase.

 

[Lsake]

That is what I think too. Doesn't make much sense to announce a new camera before the last announcement hit the market. Also the first source, which leaked the S5II, gave some kind of roadmap. The source predicted the S5II for Q1 and S1II for Q3. We just got into Q2 now. I would expect the S1II announcement not before July therefore. There also could be a double announcement of S1II and S1HII or S1II and S1RII or a triple announcement of all three together. However think the S1RII will not come at all, because I believe the S1II will get a significant resolution and performance increase.

I also remember some mention of an S1ii in q3. I think it was just a single bullet point in the leaked info, as the leak was mostly about the S5ii. Lumix tend to keep things very secret until only a few days before an announcement. with the original S5 I think the only hint that anything was happening was that they released the 20-60mm lens a month or so prior to the announcement. Leading people to speculate that a smaller S camera was probably coming… and then one day the S5 just appeared from out of nowhere.

 

[Jan.Wedekind]

I will definitely wait and see what the next S1 will look like. I would love to have PDAF but getting the S5ii is hard to justify for me since I don't do much video and for photos, the DFD AF is "good enough". Meanwhile, the sensor on the S5ii is exactly the same.

I would love to see a little bump in resolution and hopefully a lighter body w/o sacrificing usability. Then I happily splurge out the increment for a S1ii.

Still seems more likely to me though, that they will release the S5iiX, then a S1Hii and then wait and see how it performs. Maybe even release a M43 body with PDAF first (GH6ii?). So I am not exactly holding my breath at this point.

 

[pdk42]

I will definitely wait and see what the next S1 will look like. I would love to have PDAF but getting the S5ii is hard to justify for me since I don't do much video and for photos, the DFD AF is "good enough". Meanwhile, the sensor on the S5ii is exactly the same.

I would love to see a little bump in resolution and hopefully a lighter body w/o sacrificing usability. Then I happily splurge out the increment for a S1ii.

Still seems more likely to me though, that they will release the S5iiX, then a S1Hii and then wait and see how it performs. Maybe even release a M43 body with PDAF first (GH6ii?). So I am not exactly holding my breath at this point.

I’ve thought about the S5ii, but apart from the better EVF it would do nothing for me. The AF on the S5 is perfectly good enough for what I shoot and the sensor performs extremely well. In some ways I prefer it to the sensor in the S1R. The files are more malleable in PP - but of course the resolution is lower. I’d like an S5-sized body with a better EVF, more Mp, and a dual-axis tilt screen. I can’t see the dual axis screen surviving the move to the S1ii, but I’m hoping it loses some weight, gets more Mp, and will have the same 5Mp EVF as its predecessor (or better). In the meantime, the S5 is working well for me.

 

[Jan.Wedekind]

I’ve thought about the S5ii, but apart from the better EVF it would do nothing for me.

Ah yes, that's another thing: the S5ii EVF is still a significant step down from the S1, which I really don't want to do tbh.

I’d like an S5-sized body with a better EVF, more Mp,

I don't mind the size as much as the weight. Please shave off at least 200g Panasonic!

and a dual-axis tilt screen. I can’t see the dual axis screen surviving the move to the S1ii,

That would suck a lot. I really like the tilt screen so much more for photography. I practically never flip out the screen on the OM-1 but I hate that I cannot tilt it.

 

[Snowcat]

For me, S1H (and, thus, S1H-II) is the LEAST interesting camera. What I am waiting for is the next high MP camera. I really don't think that Panasonic will release ANOTHER low MP camera right after S5-II, it would not be very wise for them...

 

[pdk42]

For me, S1H (and, thus, S1H-II) is the LEAST interesting camera. What I am waiting for is the next high MP camera. I really don't think that Panasonic will release ANOTHER low MP camera right after S5-II, it would not be very wise for them...

But the market for dedicated stills cameras is not large. Thankfully high Mp is needed to support 8k video - you need ca 40Mp for that. So I guess a hybrid camera designed for 8k will also offer a decent hi res stills option too. I think this is what the next S1 will be.

But we’ll also get the baggage that such a video centric camera will need - not least of which is cooling which will push up the size and weight.

 

[Snowcat]

But the market for dedicated stills cameras is not large.

That's true, BUT Panasonic JUST showed us a very cool idea - one camera can be split into two (S5-II and S5-II X). The latter is a pro video camera so people like me can buy the first variation and be happy and have no need to pay for excessive video options. That looks very reasonable for me.

 

[pdk42]

That's true, BUT Panasonic JUST showed us a very cool idea - one camera can be split into two (S5-II and S5-II X). The latter is a pro video camera so people like me can buy the first variation and be happy and have no need to pay for excessive video options. That looks very reasonable for me.

Yes, but basic stuff like cooling finds its way into all models. It’s not too intrusive on the S5ii, but the GH6 and S1H have massive cooling that makes the camera bigger than it would be as a pure stills machine.

 

[Qwerty]

I think they are letting the S5ii have its day. The S1 is for a smaller demographic, like me who love its size for perfect balance and handling with larger lenses, viewfinder, greater dynamic range and lower noise with lower rez sensor and best in class image ibis system which required the large body. Loving my S1 and looking forward to seeing what the S1mkii has to offer, but in no rush.

 

[John Vickers]

That's true, BUT Panasonic JUST showed us a very cool idea - one camera can be split into two (S5-II and S5-II X).

The latter is a pro video camera

No.

• No OLPF (to keep numpties happy).
• No timecode input. Output only on HDMI.
• No Tally Lamp.
• Flip & Twist rear display is in the way.

No Netflix certification for you.

Silly thing about timecode is that the cameras have Bluetooth & WiFi - so Panasonic could make a phone app that jammed sync wirelessly, like Tentacle sync, but without using an audio track.

so people like me can buy the first variation and be happy and have no need to pay for excessive video options. That looks very reasonable for me.

That's the wrong way round. People buying these cameras for the video features pay for your still features.

 

[AZ1]

I'm looking forward to the S1H MKII. I have a feeling Panasonic will really bring it with this camera!

 

[pdk42]

I'm looking forward to the S1H MKII. I have a feeling Panasonic will really bring it with this camera!

If it's a beast like the current S1H, then I'll be out... I'm worried that a hard core 8k video camera will necessarily have large heat dissipation needs and so the body will inevitably be big.

 

[AlanC]

If it's a beast like the current S1H, then I'll be out... I'm worried that a hard core 8k video camera will necessarily have large heat dissipation needs and so the body will inevitably be big.

I would guess that an S1Hii would be exactly that: an 8K capable camera with no time limits.

Japanese companies don't usually drop any sort of hints about future products, but in the DPReview interview Yosuke Yamane commented that they see the need for smaller cameras and also mentioned the Japanese press were asking for a small full frame camera. So I wouldn't rule the possibility of a future smaller high resolution camera out if the S1Hii does turn out to be an 8K version of the existing behemoth.

 

[John Vickers]

I would guess that an S1Hii would be exactly that: an 8K capable camera with no time limits.

Yeah, no-one's used Alexa LF for years, because it's only 11.7MP. You have to pay to have them taken away.

What the S1H needs most is faster readout (less rolling shutter) without reducing dynamic range. Not more pixels. More pixels would be nice, but not at the expense of dynamic range. OTOH, Panasonic's marketing department might insist on messing up the camera, but it's not a consumer product, so I guess not.

A slightly stronger OLPF would be good too - S1H reduces moiré relative to S1/S5, but it could do better. If it's a conventional 2-layer birefringent OLPF, the first null in the cos(f) MTF (of the OLPF) wants to be very close to 0.5 cycles/pixel in the x and y directions.

PDAF might be nice, but a lot of video doesn't use continuous AF. Uncontrolled/unplanned changes in focus are undesirable.

Reducing NI[*] noise would help in the deep shadows, as on other Panasonic imaging products.

...

*: NI - Numerical Incompetence.

Japanese companies don't usually drop any sort of hints about future products, but in the DPReview interview Yosuke Yamane commented that they see the need for smaller cameras and also mentioned the Japanese press were asking for a small full frame camera. So I wouldn't rule the possibility of a future smaller high resolution camera out if the S1Hii does turn out to be an 8K version of the existing behemoth.

 

[John Vickers]

Yeah, no-one's used Alexa LF for years, because it's only 11.7MP. You have to pay to have them taken away.

Typo: 11.7MP should be 13.7MP

 

[AlanC]

Yeah, no-one's used Alexa LF for years, because it's only 11.7MP. You have to pay to have them taken away.

I was thinking they might aim for a competitor to the likes of the A1, R5 or Z9, which might fit more with their declared intention to target the "Content Creator" market, and hadn't realised they regard the S1H as fitting into their cinema camera line.

I just hope they don't put all the emphasis on the video side in their future products.

 

[NFec]

Sony just made a 44MP and 61MP Full frame sensor available for 3rd parties (IMX366AJK and IMX455AQK-C). I am most interested in some kind of S1R successor if it comes with the PDAF, a little bit more fps in CAF and a CPU upgrade allowing things in body like LIVE COMPOSIT. In all other things the S1R feels to me like being still quite up-to-date.
Personally I am not confident, that Panasonic will launch a S1R ii, but in worst case Leica will do it I hope (SL3).