News Sigma BF

[dirk]

The Sigma fp/fpL has no IBIS neither. No Sigma fp user seems to complain about it. If you need IBIS, buy a different camera like a Ricoh GR3 or Lumix S9. There is no camera for everybody. Each camera has pro and cons. You have to find the best compromise for your own use cases.

I love Lumix IBIS, but I do not think, that I really need it that much in most situations. Especially not with 24MP. You can adjust shutterspeed and handshake is no issue anymore. Like in the last 40 years of photography. Todays modern sensors give us excellent image quality even at high ISO. So that argument does not count neither.

If you shoot a moving subject, IBIS does not help at all. IBIS is not a solution for everybody. Neither IBIS, nor an EVF is the holy grail.

Think about your use cases and then pick the right tool with the right features for the task.

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

It's like they took all of the bad decisions that these days occasionally turn up on their own on a camera and put them all into one: no grip, no shutter, no hot or cold shoe, not enough controls, no IBIS, non-removable memory, no viewfinder, no ports, no sealing and, as a final kick in the teeth, in horrible silver colour with the new ugly font. And it costs just as much as a camera that does have many of those things.

 

[Markuswelder]

I fully agree. Looks striking and it's certainly a camera that you'd want to have as a nice 'object' - which incidentally takes brilliant pictures. The user interface looks really interesting too: stripped down and intuitive.

But no IBIS? I guess I've been spoilt as my first camera was a Lumix G9 so I don't think I could conceive using a camera without IBIS, but happy to be proven wrong!

I own 2 Panny G100's. I bought the first one pretty much specifically because of no IBIS, as I have an ultrawide prime just about permanently attached to it. And I'm 99.9% sure I get sharper to the corners photos out of it, for that reason. It's a non issue, as you're not going to be mounting up great chunks of tele lenses or monster f1.4 lenses for a one handed operating mode camera. They showed a colour matched line of the 24, 35 & 50mm i series lenses for it if my eye's aren't deceiving me, that's the type of shooting you're going to use it for.

 

[Markuswelder]

in horrible silver colour with the new ugly font.

There's also a black one on display in one of the vid's. I think it looks beautiful, I'm not going to get my panties all wadded up over it because it doesn't follow my exact list of requirements & wants. It's not for me. But there's no way I'm going to hate on it. I hope they sell a squillion of them

 

[nsbrookes]

I own 2 Panny G100's. I bought the first one pretty much specifically because of no IBIS, as I have an ultrawide prime just about permanently attached to it. And I'm 99.9% sure I get sharper to the corners photos out of it, for that reason. It's a non issue, as you're not going to be mounting up great chunks of tele lenses or monster f1.4 lenses for a one handed operating mode camera. They showed a colour matched line of the 24, 35 & 50mm i series lenses for it if my eye's aren't deceiving me, that's the type of shooting you're going to use it for.

Good to know. I'd certainly love to play around with the Sigma BF as it is truly appealing. I have just realised that the BF is about 100 grammes lighter that the S9 too (which wasn't heavy to start off with!). I am sure it would work wonderfully as a street camera.

 

[dirk]

It's like they took all of the bad decisions that these days occasionally turn up on their own on a camera and put them all into one: no grip, no shutter, no hot or cold shoe, not enough controls, no IBIS, non-removable memory, no viewfinder, no ports, no sealing and, as a final kick in the teeth, in horrible silver colour with the new ugly font. And it costs just as much as a camera that does have many of those things.

No probelm, then it is definitely not the right camera for you. Buy another model, like a Lumix S5ii. Problem solved.

We have to accept, that brands do not develop each product only for our personal need. Neither in the photoindustry, nor in other industries like automotive etc.

Every brand does offer different models with different features, shape and size for different needs at different price points. This is how life works. If you buy a Porsche 911, you can not complain about the lack of store-space. If you need a truck, buy a truck instead. But do not tell the Porsche 911 drivers that they drive the wrong car

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

I'm not saying it's just not for me, more that it's hard to imagine who it would be for.

In principle it's good to see new L-mount cameras but if they're so lacking as this one then it can only serve to lower the image of the L-mount "brand" and I can't help but think we'd be better off without it. It certainly won't bring many users to the system.

 

[mal-edgar]

Lust...

 

[dirk]

Your opinion about this:

that it's hard to imagine who it would be for.

has something to do with your own, personal view of this

It certainly won't bring many users to the system.

We are running in circles. I understand that this is not a camera you would buy. But you should not conclude from your own wishes and needs to other`s people wishes and needs. This is a common habit in internet forums. A new camera is announced and every single time, no matter which model or brand, there are individual users who say that this model will fail because of this and that. This is not realistic, because if it were true, all brands were already dead

It is good to talk in forums about different needs, wishes, that someone is disappointed because he hoped for something else etc. This is what community forums are for. But we should not fall into the trap, that just because I do not like something, it will not please others.

The best examples are smartphones. Smartphones are nothing for us "traditional" photographers. Nevertheless, smartphones are sold to billions of users and they all take pictures withit. The camera market is a joke against this. The reason why the sales in the camera market are nowadays a fraction of 2010 is that no brand took the needs of "the others" seriously - and almost all brands continue to bury their heads in the sand

Each to his own taste. The industry has to offer more camera models and features for the billions of potential buyers who do not want to buy what is available until today. We all have to face reality, if this industry wants to survive in 10 years.

 

[xaviergut]

I was reading the press release of the Sigma BF and, as Dirk says, it seems that it is more a photocentric camera. They repeat the word photography, photography or photographer up to 5 times in the title and the introduction.

Launch schedule of Sigma BF | News | Sigma

This page is about Sigma's Launch schedule of Sigma BF.

www.sigma-global.com

But, they do mention some video features :

"Video shooting (6K, L-Log)​

The BF supports high-resolution 6K and L-Log recording, enabling video production that takes advantage of the wide dynamic range of a full-frame sensor".

If this camera is intended to be a hybrid EDC camera, in that case I find IBIS or some kind of electronic stabilization (like in the Lumix G100) very important, because you do not carry everywhere with you a gimbal... For photography the lack of IBIS is not that dramatic, but for video is really convenient.

 

[Nevyn72]

I was reading the press release of the Sigma BF and, as Dirk says, it seems that it is more a photocentric camera. They repeat the word photography, photography or photographer up to 5 times in the title and the introduction.

Launch schedule of Sigma BF | News | Sigma

This page is about Sigma's Launch schedule of Sigma BF.

www.sigma-global.com

But, they do mention some video features :

"Video shooting (6K, L-Log)​

The BF supports high-resolution 6K and L-Log recording, enabling video production that takes advantage of the wide dynamic range of a full-frame sensor".

If this camera is intended to be a hybrid EDC camera, in that case I find IBIS or some kind of electronic stabilization (like in the Lumix G100) very important, because you do not carry everywhere with you a gimbal... For photography the lack of IBIS is not that dramatic, but for video is really convenient.

Completly agree. And none however options for external microphones wil also not help....
This camera perhaps looks cooler, but is so much crippled compared to even the S9.... And you know what people thought about that...

The price will also not help... Or am I missing something?

 

[Travis Butler]

It looks really pretty and the build looks epic, but I'd prefer an S9 over this - at least it's got IBIS. Seriously, anyone used to using a smartphone will find it almost impossible to take sharp pics on an FF camera with no stabilisation. Especially since you'll be holding it at arms length like a smelly nappy/diaper since it's got no EVF!

As skeptical as I am of the bf so far, I have to disagree here; I’ve had very little trouble doing without IBIS on the fp - and shooting almost entirely with manual lenses, too.

Are some of my pics not as sharp as they could be? Probably… I also have auto-exposure’s shutter speed floor programmed pretty conservatively, 1/30 IIRC, and let ISO ramp up instead. But it’s quite workable, and I’m reasonably satisfied.

I’d prefer IBIS, to be clear. But it’s not a dealbreaker for me, in the way the lack of an EVF is.

 

[robin0112358]

Apple have made many badly designed products and this follows in those footsteps. Design is not about making something look cool, that is mere style. Design is about functionality and affordance.

So what I like about this camera is the simplified visually-oriented menu system, which I have been calling for since Blackmagic released their systems. Their usability is so obviously superior to the hierarchical menus that still plague cameras. (So long as the screen is large enough, that is.)

One control dial at first seems like a mistake (hello Lumix S9) but not in this case. Because Sigma has the aperture dial on their lenses where, IMHO, it should always be.

However the physical ergonomics is a fail here. Let me ask: what is less comfortable to hold than a brick? (Well, a lobster I guess.) A grip is sorely needed, so no doubt we'll see third-party solutions. But the lack of anchor points (only one) hinders this as well.

The context-sensitive mini screen that displays current settings is a smart way to include feedback in the user experience. There's no problem with internal memory but there must be a wireless method to access it. USB is a major point of failure.

For the target audience an EVF is not required. But I would say the lack of a tilt screen is giving up too much. I've been shooting with a Pentax ME Super this week and having to hold the damn viewfinder up to my eye all the time limits the shots I can take. (Yes, it's been a while since I shot film!) Yes, we must hold up a mobile phone to look at the screen... but that is one of the limitations people buy a camera to leave behind!

For me the lack of a mechanical shutter and IBIS are deal killers. Perhaps not for the target audience. But wait until they try to take steady shots indoors under club lighting. Because they will.

Given the size of the overall system with lens, Sigma have gone too far with miniaturisation, as the Japanese often do. A few millimeters more for a tilt screen and IBIS and there would really be something competitive here. Sigma in particular release impractical cameras with cool ideas. I guess their lens arm keeps them in business?

 

[dirk]

If this camera is intended to be a hybrid EDC camera

I think Sigma tries to avoid exactly that impression. The fact that you can do video with it does not nean that Sigma wants to promote the BF as a hybrid camera.

If they would, then all the questions would rise regardingIBIS, articulating screen, hotshoe, mic and earphone input etc.

IMHO Sigma does NOT want to get misinterpreted with the BF. It is a camera for stylish ex-smartphone users, not for photographers, not for content creators. Video feature are nice to have but no signal in that direction.

Similar to the Fuji X100 vi. Nobody would think of this camera as a camera for hybrid shooters.

 

[AlanC]

I’ve had very little trouble doing without IBIS on the fp

Likewise, and this with the 60MP fp L. I've actually been surprised and impressed by the sheer amount of fine detail the combination of the fp L and i-series lenses can deliver.

I'm also somewhat skeptical of the BF. My major point of concern is the lack of controls: there are some things (such as exposure compensation, exposure lock) that I want on a dedicated dial or button. Plus I'm not keen on the idea of the only dial being the four way controller; that's the situation on my Panasonic GM1 and I quickly found I had a tendency to accidentally click the dial while rotating it, changing the parameter I was modifying.

I wonder if there will be a high resolution BF L version in the future?

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

I do very little video, almost everything is photography, and since getting the S5 the great IBIS has allowed me to do a lot of stuff that I couldn't do with my Fujifilm (no IBIS) or Pentax (poor quality IBIS) gear.

 

[Travis Butler]

I think Signa tries to avoid exactly that impression. The fact that you can do video with it does not nean that Sigma wants to promote the BF as a hybrid camera.

Agreed.

If they would, then all the questions would rise regardingIBIS, articulating screen, hotshoe, mic and earphone input etc.

Also agreed.

IMHO Sigma does NOT want to get misinterpreted with the BF. It is a camera for stylish ex-smartphone users, not for photographers, not for content creators.

I think this is the cleft stick of the BF concept.

Do these people exist? I think so. But I don’t think they’re willing to spend $2,000 on a camera. (No, I don’t think the smartphone comparison works. A smartphone is a person’s digital life, all in the palm of their hand- and it takes pictures well enough for most people to the point where it destroyed the point-and-shoot camera market. This… well, is an advanced point-and-shoot camera.)

Do people who spend $2,000 on a camera exist? Absolutely… but I don’t think a lot of them will want to spend it on this camera. $2,000 is into Serious Investment territory, not casual-fun territory.

As I said originally, I can see this being a fun second or third camera, for when you just want to walk around and snap; I’d be tempted for that myself if it weren’t for the rear screen. But $2,000 is more than I can afford to spend on that, and if I did have $2,000 to spend on photo equipment, there are more productive ways to invest it. I’d have to be at the point where $2,000 is something I could afford to spend casually, and I don’t think there are many people there.

 

[Oldwino]

It’s a pretty darn sexy camera. I’m glad Sigma has the cajones to release quirky cameras like this. It is fun.
Just watch, Leica will release a version of this for $6000.

 

[Travis Butler]

Likewise, and this with the 60MP fp L. I've actually been surprised and impressed by the sheer amount of fine detail the combination of the fp L and i-series lenses can deliver.

One of these days I’d like to try the fp L with my favorite manual lenses and see how it does.

I'm also somewhat skeptical of the BF. My major point of concern is the lack of controls: there are some things (such as exposure compensation, exposure lock) that I want on a dedicated dial or button. Plus I'm not keen on the idea of the only dial being the four way controller; that's the situation on my Panasonic GM1 and I quickly found I had a tendency to accidentally click the dial while rotating it, changing the parameter I was modifying.

I had the same problem with the GM1. Sigma seems to have put a lot of work into the BF interface, though, so I’m willing to reserve judgement until I see how it works in practice.

(All I really need for my shooting style is remapping the AEL button to focus magnify, touchscreen to shift the magnify point, and the top dial for exposure compensation; aperture lives on the lens for my manual lenses. I suppose the video record button on the BF could be remapped to focus magnify, though it seems awkwardly placed for that.)

I wonder if there will be a high resolution BF L version in the future?

It seems unlikely to me; I’m not sure what their target market would get from 60mp.

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

It’s a pretty darn sexy camera. I’m glad Sigma has the cajones to release quirky cameras like this. It is fun.
Just watch, Leica will release a version of this for $6000.

I think you mean "cojones"...

Cajones are drawers (as in "chest of")