Reactions to reviewers & type of photographers

[Travis Butler]

I have the feeling that there are three main archetypes of camera users (and reviewers):

The Stat-Nerds: These users prioritize technical specifications and performance metrics…

The Artists: These users care less about specifications and more about the creative possibilities of their equipment…

The Status-Seekers: These users are primarily concerned with how their equipment reflects on their image or status…

Most camera users embody aspects of all three archetypes to varying degrees.

I also like this analysis.

While I do have a fair amount of stat-nerd in me, though, I also have a hell of a lot of hostility towards them, largely because of their hostility towards things I strongly believe. I might also consider adding a fourth category, distinct from The Artists:

The Usability Addicts: People who value the experience of shooting the camera - how much the camera contributes to joy in taking pictures - over everything else. I’d distinguish it from the artists because for Usabilists, having a camera that’s fun to shoot with outweighs the end result; they aren’t willing to put up with bad ergonomics even if a camera has great IQ. If it wasn’t obvious, I put myself in this category. ^^;; I’d also say the Sigma BF is aimed at this category, in addition to the status-seekers.

(Though I would argue that UX does contribute to the Artistic side, because it’s easier to be creative if the camera is working with you instead of fighting you. I’d still put it as a separate category, because I’ve seen a lot of Artists say that IQ is more important than anything, and will put up with a bad interface for good IQ; I’m the opposite, because while I like good IQ, as long as IQ meets a minimum standard, I’ll choose UX over IQ.)

I’ve noticed a lot of stat-nerds disregard anything that can’t be measured by numbers, and belittle - even outright attack - anyone who values those qualities. Which is why I’m hostile to that subset of them. (There’s a lot of bleedover there; I feel like I’ve been fighting these battles since the 80’s, with the GUI/CLI wars. Other notable skirmishes were the Palm V (thin/sealed all metal design vs replaceable batteries, which the BF also seems to echo) and the touchscreen-vs-keyboard smartphone fights in the late 00’s.) A favorite insult of those stat-nerds is accusing Artists and Usabilists of being Status-Seekers, just because they value qualities the stat-nerd can’t measure.

For myself, aside from being a UX geek, I’d count myself an Artist, because the IQ qualities I value most - color, contrast, tonality, apparent sharpness vs resolution, bokeh, 3D pop, etc. - are hard if not impossible to quantify. I do have some stats-nerd in me, because I love geeking out about technology, high FPS, and the like. And I‘m not happy with being called a status-seeker, both because I like cameras accused of being fashion items - GM5, Pen-F - for other reasons, and because I often like the weirdo unfashionable cameras (Sigma fp).

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

That's a fair point George. And I'm fine with Gerald or anyone finding defects and pointing them out, but isn't the level of rolling shutter just a specification rather than a defect? To be fair, I've not watched his review so maybe there were some other actual defects that he found?

No, it's more than a stat. It plays into IQ. Not in a traditional sense, but a slow sensor readout speed causes "jello" in videos, and warping/distortion in stills. For example, trees become slanted instead of vertical. I assume you know that but I point it out to possibly help others. Anyway, hist point is that he was seeing more jello in the S1RII videos than he sees in a high-end DJI (I think it was?) which used a similar, if not the same, sensor. So he thought Panasonic should be able to do better for the readout speed of the sensor.

Unfortunately his sarcastic spray doesn't really help his professional standing and the big melt-down he had over not being invited to the S9 launch last year diminished his standing and probably made him a magnet for trolls.

Yes, the sarcastic response wasn't exactly professional.

 

[Travis Butler]

Yes, the sarcastic response wasn't exactly professional.

Yeah, that's my overwhelming problem with him. I got my degree in journalism, so I hold reviewers to pretty high professional standards; I hate to think how some of my old professors would tear him apart.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

I also like this analysis.

While I do have a fair amount of stat-nerd in me, though, I also have a hell of a lot of hostility towards them, largely because of their hostility towards things I strongly believe. I might also consider adding a fourth category, distinct from The Artists:

The Usability Addicts: People who value the experience of shooting the camera - how much the camera contributes to joy in taking pictures - over everything else. I’d distinguish it from the artists because for Usabilists, having a camera that’s fun to shoot with outweighs the end result; they aren’t willing to put up with bad ergonomics even if a camera has great IQ. If it wasn’t obvious, I put myself in this category. ^^;; I’d also say the Sigma BF is aimed at this category, in addition to the status-seekers.

(Though I would argue that UX does contribute to the Artistic side, because it’s easier to be creative if the camera is working with you instead of fighting you. I’d still put it as a separate category, because I’ve seen a lot of Artists say that IQ is more important than anything, and will put up with a bad interface for good IQ; I’m the opposite, because while I like good IQ, as long as IQ meets a minimum standard, I’ll choose UX over IQ.)

Yes, my venn diagram definitely overlaps onto the usability addict circle. And yes, I really want a BF. I've been massively blasted in the past (on the other forum) for saying that the nature of the tool can affect the output, but I believe it's true. Woodworking tools are another example. Of course, a dedicated craftsman can create regardless of the tools used (assuming they are sharp, anyway) but I personally am inspired by the tools I use. So perhaps I'm not a pure craftsman. But even James Krenov made his own handplanes, although he was more artisan than craftsman in my estimation anyway.

I’ve noticed a lot of stat-nerds disregard anything that can’t be measured by numbers, and belittle - even outright attack - anyone who values those qualities. Which is why I’m hostile to that subset of them. (There’s a lot of bleedover there; I feel like I’ve been fighting these battles since the 80’s, with the GUI/CLI wars. Other notable skirmishes were the Palm V (thin/sealed all metal design vs replaceable batteries, which the BF also seems to echo) and the touchscreen-vs-keyboard smartphone fights in the late 00’s.) A favorite insult of those stat-nerds is accusing Artists and Usabilists of being Status-Seekers, just because they value qualities the stat-nerd can’t measure.

For myself, aside from being a UX geek, I’d count myself an Artist, because the IQ qualities I value most - color, contrast, tonality, apparent sharpness vs resolution, bokeh, 3D pop, etc. - are hard if not impossible to quantify. I do have some stats-nerd in me, because I love geeking out about technology, high FPS, and the like. And I‘m not happy with being called a status-seeker, both because I like cameras accused of being fashion items - GM5, Pen-F - for other reasons, and because I often like the weirdo unfashionable cameras (Sigma fp).

 

[dirk]

This thread develops in a very interesting direction. I adapted the thread title for this.

I think it is very difficult to put all photographers into only 3 categories. I guess we all agree that we all like to take photos. Whether it is art or just memories of something we liked is in the eye of the beholder.

Similar to what Paul and others said, I like to have gear in my hand that feels good, that I like to operate and which is making my life easier to take pictures. This can be a good viewfinder, an aperture ring on a lens, a metal construction, the right knobs and wheels at the right place and the weight and size of the gear.

Of course I like high image quality, but I see on my photos (in most cases family, travel, street, sport, people, I hate tripods), that the right moment is more important than the image quality. The photos of HCB have a terrible image quality in todays benchmark, but they are still among the best street/people photos of today. For this genre, you do not need high MP or the best sensor. Therefore I would call myself probably gear head or usability addict.

With photography like Ansel Adams this is different. I have seen sone originals in a photo exhibition and they have been really great in terms of image quality. If you want to achieve that, you have to pick nowadays the best sensor and lens you can carry over your shoulders. UX/usability does not matter much for this genre, which dies not mean that users in that category are not gear heads

Life is difficult...

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

With photography like Ansel Adams this is different. I have seen sone originals in a photo exhibition and they have been really great in terms of image quality. If you want to achieve that, you have to pick nowadays the best sensor and lens you can carry over your shoulders. UX/usability does not matter much for this genre, which dies not mean that users in that category are not gear heads

Yes, the stories of the gear Ansel used to cart around are quite interesting. He used to set up on top of his station wagon, if I recall correctly, and his gear was quite heavy.

My father used to correspond with Ansel, and I think he even did a workshop with him once. I do recall him saying one time that Ansel was "quite the gear-head," always seeking out the best equipment. So I guess it depends on what somebody means by "gear head." Is that somebody who buys gear just to have it, or is it somebody always switching gear to get the most out of their photography excursions. Very different profiles.

I'm in the process of shopping for ultra-light hiking gear so that I can cart some of my camera stuff up into places I have not been before. Multi-night outings. Not that I am purely a "I buy stuff to get the most out of my imagery" kind of guy. I'm certainly also partially "Wow that's cool I want that." But I'd like to think I'm at least 60% of the former, LOL.

Note that this was partially born from an experience (there's that word) I had during a photography workshop in 2017. Was brought to some amazing places in the SW during monsoon season. Had a 24 MP Fuji crop body. The results were good - great, even - but the images were a little noisy and I came away thinking that if I'm going to spend all this money & time to do this, I might as well have gear that allows me to bring back as much digital information as possible - resolution and DR. So I bought the S1R (eventually).

But I can't resist cool stuff either, so one feeds the other, I suppose.

And that's why I'm wondering if I should switch systems to something with a 60 MP sensor, or maybe a GFX 100S. Or even a Hassy with three primes. Then get MFT for wildlife.

 

[RuleOfThirds]

Like the thread! But where would that leave me? Hmm I like taking pictures, I like playing with the camera, can’t stand chromatic abberations or other minor imperfections like horrible bokeh, or soft lenses. Don’t care too much about specs, but like to read gear reviews and look at online portfolios/ picture galleries and try to learn. So definitely gear enthusiast. I really can’t be qualified as an artist. And certainly would not use it for the sake of status. Maybe hobbyist is a archetype as well. People who use it for fun and because using it makes them feel good. To document travels and precious moments in time. For a lasting memory.

I would choose the S1Rii because of weight and the the way the monitor flips, would not consider the S9 for missing evf and real shutter. Or most probably if I was to switch from Fuji to Lumix again still would buy the s5ii because of the price difference. Because you can buy some very nice lenses for that kind of difference.

 

[Pete_W]

Like the thread! But where would that leave me? Hmm I like taking pictures, I like playing with the camera, can’t stand chromatic abberations or other minor imperfections like horrible bokeh, or soft lenses. Don’t care too much about specs, but like to read gear reviews and look at online portfolios/ picture galleries and try to learn. So definitely gear enthusiast. I really can’t be qualified as an artist. And certainly would not use it for the sake of status. Maybe hobbyist is a archetype as well. People who use it for fun and because using it makes them feel good. To document travels and precious moments in time. For a lasting memory.

I am probably similar to you, i.e. I enjoy good gear but am not that fussed about specs, especially spec like fps and rolling shutter.

One of the YouTubers I follow whose channel is substantially about photography and rarely about gear has said a number of times that for him, photography is a bit like fishing, i.e. it is as much about the process as it is the outcome. Some days you come home without getting the fish, but that's ok if you had fun doing it. I think this is a good way to think for a hobbyist like me, and that means having gear that I enjoy using and does what I need is important.

I would choose the S1Rii because of weight and the the way the monitor flips, would not consider the S9 for missing evf and real shutter. Or most probably if I was to switch from Fuji to Lumix again still would buy the s5ii because of the price difference. Because you can buy some very nice lenses for that kind of difference.

I love what Panasonic have done with the S1RII but I'd have a hard time justifying me buying it at the moment. I like the tilting rear screen (never been a fan of the flippy screen), the higher-res EVF, and while I don't really need a higher-res sensor, having the extra MP to enable some heavier cropping at times would be nice. That said, I also don't really want to have to manage larger file sizes and find that I need to upgrade my computer.

As I have said before, the most limiting factor for my photography by far is the person operating the camera! I need to work a lot more on that before I splurge on higher-end gear.

 

[dirk]

And that's why I'm wondering if I should switch systems to something with a 60 MP sensor, or maybe a GFX 100S. Or even a Hassy with three primes. Then get MFT for wildlife.

I always think about MF, but to be honest, it seems that the difference in DR etc. to high end fullframe is not as big as the price difference. Dpreview claimed, it would be negligable and very hard to see the difference in real life.

This depends probably also on the print size. This is why I decided against MF (also worse AF, lens choice etc pp)

You can look at our sister forum for Medium Format. It is Hasselblad heavy though...

Medium Forum Forum

Medium Format Community - all brands. Digital and analogue. Hasselblad, Fuji, Pentax, Rollei etc.

mediumformatforum.com

 

[RuleOfThirds]

I always think about MF, but to be honest, it seems that the difference in DR etc. to high end fullframe is not as big as the price difference. Dpreview claimed, it would be negligable and very hard to see the difference in real life.

Liked this video about that subject