Nikon launch the Z8

[xaviergut]

When I decided to sell my Nikon dslr (apsc) and buy a mirrorless one I was hesitating between the S5 and the Nikon Z6II. I opted for the Lumix for the price. It also has very interesting features that Nikon has not yet implemented, such as high res shot and the ability to control timelapses on camera, among others. I admit the Z6II is a better camera, but the price for quality Z lenses was too high.

However, what Nikon has done with the Z8 is a master move. Because it offers the features of a Z9 at a price that is $1,500 cheaper and with a smaller and lighter body. Now Sony and its flagship A1 have to compete with the Z9 and Z8 in the market, the cameras that are useful for everything.

I am confident that Panasonic offers a flagship camera (S1II) with a similar approach to the Z9/Z8 and A1. Because everything else already has it. And the evolution of the S5II seems to be going in that direction. And as Paul says, if the new S1II is as good as the Z8 and at a similar price, I'd sell my S1R to buy it.

 

[RBecker]

The Z8 seems to be crazy good camera with a good price in comparison to the Z9, but also with quite a high price for the “normal“ photographer…
Two friends from my photography club has long waited for he Z8 (both are using an Z7 actually), but for 4600€ it is not an easy buy! The only thing both really missed with their Z7 is better AF, but for what cost?
I also would like to have a better AF in my S1R, but for landscape and studio it‘s working well! For action and wildlife I use my MFT. If there would be an S2R or S1RII that competes against the Z8 or Canon/Sony, it would have the same price tag like the Z8. And any Leica (even if internally identical) would cost even more. Sigma was never interested in action cams, so I don‘t expect an AF monster from their side.
I bought the S1R because of the good price in 2020 (2400€) and the availability of Sigma Art lenses also for good prices. I never regret that decision, but for me a price of around 2500€ is a maximum limit. So I would love to see an successor to the S1R, but I fear it will be nothing for me or I have to wait a very long time to get it…

 

[Quentinquirelino]

That's also my guess. A second 24 Mpix (or even 33 Mpix) Body with slow read out speed a long with the S5II and S5IIX doesn't make much sense. At least it has to get a faster sensor. That would fill the needs of video shooters and wildlife shooters alike. For video it would enable 4k 60fps and faster, for stills it would power up the AF and reduce rolling shutter in faster shooting modes.
Also höher resolutions would benefit both alike, since Videographers see some demand for 8k.

The Nikon Z8 shows, that nowadays photographers and videographer have very similar demand for hardware.

 

[AlanC]

In the case of FF cameras, unless you’re going to abandon the stills market entirely, a hi res body is almost mandatory given the likely use in landscape or studio photography. L mount won‘t be a system to be taken seriously If it just becomes a video only tool.

I don't think there's much danger of that. DPReview are very fond of saying no manufacturer will ever make a stills only camera, but it cuts the other way as well: why make a camera that's video only when you can easily include stills? And look what happened when Panasonic left Live View Composite out of the S5ii: people immediately started asking for it back, and it's coming back in the v2.0 firmware. So, hopefully, lesson learned and Panasonic won't be tempted to cut the stills capabilities again.

The Z8 has set the standard for what you can expect from a high end mirrorless camera. An S1ii will need a sensor capable of 8K video if it's going to compete, so the resolution will be there. And if Panasonic use the new cooling system they introduced with the S5ii then it shouldn't be as large as the S1H. No more need for R and H variants, just one direct competitor to the Z8.

 

[pdk42]

I don't think there's much danger of that. DPReview are very fond of saying no manufacturer will ever make a stills only camera, but it cuts the other way as well: why make a camera that's video only when you can easily include stills? And look what happened when Panasonic left Live View Composite out of the S5ii: people immediately started asking for it back, and it's coming back in the v2.0 firmware. So, hopefully, lesson learned and Panasonic won't be tempted to cut the stills capabilities again.

The Z8 has set the standard for what you can expect from a high end mirrorless camera. An S1ii will need a sensor capable of 8K video if it's going to compete, so the resolution will be there. And if Panasonic use the new cooling system they introduced with the S5ii then it shouldn't be as large as the S1H. No more need for R and H variants, just one direct competitor to the Z8.

Yes, I agree with all of that. I'm looking forward to the S1ii. I just hope it shrinks in size and weight. I really like the form factor of the S5. If I were into Nikon, the Z7 would be the camera for me (rather than the Z8, simply on size). I do landscape not action so I don't need long lenses, fast sensor readout, or high-end AF.

 

[RBecker]

I have a S5 and a S1R and love the weight and Size of the S5. But I habe to admit, that the S1R is the best camera I have used in 30years in terms if handling (for my hands) and the S5 is not as good! But the weight is just horrible for longer work…

 

[CharlesH]

In terms of video, the lawsuit by RED vs Nikon has recently been dismissed. This means the Z9 and Z8 can use internal compressed video RAW. RED has sued several other camera companies to defend its patens in this field, and has always won before. This is why we can only use external recording monitors like the Atomos Ninja to record compressed RAW video. Apparently RED and Nikon came to a settlement, with unknown terms. It is not known whether other camera companies will be able to come to terms with RED and offer this capability.

For now this gives Nikon a video advantage. Practically this means they can record 12 bit RAW log video on internal CFexpress cards, while everyone else can only do this with 10 bits (or use an external recorder for 12 bits). In the real world 10 bits is almost always enough for video, but now and then you would really like 12 bits. Unlike photography, video is usually shot with a log format to capture a wide dynamic range, but when you want to substantially adjust the luma over a portion of that range in post processing, more bits is better.

 

[Lsake]

When the S1ii comes, i think there will be only 1 version with a 50MP sensor. The S5ii covers the lower resolution segment already. it will probably not be as fast as a Z8 but also a little cheaper around £3,500

The S1Hii will be a special video tool optimised for 8k, probably with an olpf.

Lumix also need their own super tele lenses, an S pro 200-600mm would be nice to go with a 50mp s1ii.

 

[inspiredtimothy]

When the S1ii comes, i think there will be only 1 version with a 50MP sensor. The S5ii covers the lower resolution segment already. it will probably not be as fast as a Z8 but also a little cheaper around £3,500

The S1Hii will be a special video tool optimised for 8k, probably with an olpf.

Lumix also need their own super tele lenses, an S pro 200-600mm would be nice to go with a 50mp s1ii.

It really surprises me that there is nothing from Lumix over 300mm. They are lacking on the small lens segment as well, with not a single pancake (or muffin) option. It would be nice to see some <200g lens options for travel or street.

 

[CharlesH]

It really surprises me that there is nothing from Lumix over 300mm. They are lacking on the small lens segment as well, with not a single pancake (or muffin) option. It would be nice to see some <200g lens options for travel or street.

I have assumed that is what the L-Mount Alliance is about. With the alliance Panasonic doesn't have to fill out the whole spectrum of lenses and can focus more on camera development. Sigma is doing a good job with long and short lenses. Otherwise what does an alliance mean?

 

[Quentinquirelino]

It really surprises me that there is nothing from Lumix over 300mm. They are lacking on the small lens segment as well, with not a single pancake (or muffin) option. It would be nice to see some <200g lens options for travel or street.

I'm very unsure, if Panasonic will nake many longer lenses. Maybe there will be one or two, but I haven't much hope for long Lumix S Primes or anything like that. But I have hope, that Sigma will bring some long Primes. Maybe some mirrorless version of the 500/4 Sport at first. And maybe Leica will bring some longer primes, like they did for there R system. When Leica can produce them in cooperation with Sigma or Panasonic, like they do with the 100-400 or the new primes, maybe the long Tele primes would not be much more expensive than equal lenses from Sony, Canon or Nikon.

However, the system is not there yet, that there is a big need for such lenses.

 

[pdk42]

I guess the lack of long lenses from Panasonic reflects their positioning as a hybrid camera for “creators” (whatever they are!). As such, genres like BIF, that need long lenses, isn’t really their core market. Nikon OTOH definitely see themselves as occupying this space, hence the availability of lenses like the Z 600mm f4 (but you’ll need very deep pockets to buy one!).

 

[robin0112358]

Panasonic has released no fewer than six Lumix S bodies in four years. That's a lot of product for a line with basically no market share. The only way they can do this is by using resources from their Varicam line. They are a video manufacturer first and foremost. So I've been surprised at how well they've done for photography. Not that long ago I was reading posts about how they would need years to develop their own PDAF implementation.

What I would most like to see is internal RAW recording, but Panasonic don't provide that even on their professional line. But never say never?

The problem will be the price of the resulting product. The Nikon Z8 is twice the dosh of a Lumix S.

 

[RBecker]

It really surprises me that there is nothing from Lumix over 300mm. They are lacking on the small lens segment as well, with not a single pancake (or muffin) option. It would be nice to see some <200g lens options for travel or street.

If you look the youtube sessions from Lumix USA (with Sean), you will notice that he states always to see all L-mount lenses as „original lenses“. Sigma are explicitly no „third party“ lenses for them.
independent from this statement my personal decision to the S1R and L-mount in 2020 was based on the partnership with Sigma, to get Sigma lenses. my first Lumix lenses where just bought this year (very good offers for the 20-60, 1.8/50 and 70-300 to have lightweight and compact lenses for travelling with the S5).
Talking long lenses: I have the 150-600 and it is a very good lens. The OIS of the new 60-600 is visibly better, but now Sigma announced an FW update for the OIS and maybe the 150-600 will be on the same level afterwards. so you have some very good options for long lenses.