Let's talk about Blackmagic cameras

[dirk]

Blackmagic Design is one of the L-Mount alliance Partners. There are several BM camera with L-Mount available. All are fullframe. The Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera 6K is as of today in sale with a huge discount. It is currently available for around 1.500$. If you are more into video than into photography, Blackmagic cameras might be an excellent solution, Especially if you think about the workflow with other BM products like DaVinci Resolve etc.

There is a YouTuber out there who covers in depth Blackmagic products. His name is Michael Tobin. His channel seems to be really good for all BM product reviews and news alerts. he has currently almost 90.000 subscribers.

I like his channel trailer a lot:




Feel free to check out his YouTube channel. Maybe there are members here who use already a BlackMagic camera?

michael tobin

Just another guy trying to make some cinematic masterpieces......its a work in progress.

www.youtube.com

 

[JohnnyMauser]

I habe collegues who use BM-cams. The image they produce is great, but for my hybrid use and run and gun among the video side i decided against them. I just worked on a project which used BM RAW on Interviews, and again, the colors are great, but the files are so big in size, that one specific render project on premiere pro needed 120GB memory (inkluding swap) and often it would simply crash. But i am also interested in other experiences!

 

[Nevyn72]

I habe collegues who use BM-cams. The image they produce is great, but for my hybrid use and run and gun among the video side i decided against them. I just worked on a project which used BM RAW on Interviews, and again, the colors are great, but the files are so big in size, that one specific render project on premiere pro needed 120GB memory (inkluding swap) and often it would simply crash. But i am also interested in other experiences!

BM Raw should be edited in Davinci Resolve. Works best because same company.

 

[PJD]

I'm a longtime user of many different model Blackmagic Design cameras. However, I recently sold my BMD "Pocket Cinema Camera 4K" (P4K) camera, and my Olympus E-M10M3, and all my M43 lenses.

Before & immediately after receiving my S5iiX, over on Blackmagic's company user forum I recently wrote the following comparing the Lumix S5iiX to Blackmagic's L-mount "Cinema Camera 6K" (CC6K).

I'm still getting up-to-speed with my new camera's capabilities. I plan to follow-up with further impressions/comparisons soon. However, I'm already very pleased with the high-quality of the video the S5iiX is capable of recording, and of course the stills quality & functionality of the S5iiX is far better than what BMD offers. I do however greatly miss BMD's excellent menu UI! But most of all I prize the S5iiX lighter weight, smaller size, and all-in-one solution compared to my former 2-camera P4K + E-M10M3 combination. Other users & productions will often have different needs & budgets than mine. It's all good.

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On 5/11/24 Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:

These days, when it comes to cameras, we are spoiled for choice.

After researching it for weeks, I finally pulled the trigger and ordered a Panasonic Lumix S5M2X (or "S5iiX", or "S5 IIX", etc.). It has an L lens mount, and supposedly the same/similar 6K full-frame sensor as Blackmagic's 6K full-frame cameras. However, the S52X doesn't have an OLPF or built-in NDs.

In addition to the S5iiX being a competent 24MP mirrorless RAW/JPEG stills camera (which can shoot stills at up to 96 megapixels via sensor shifting), it also has an unusually wide range of video recording features. For example, it can record 10-bit 6K ProRes 422 HQ to an external SSD. It also has many H264 & H265 modes. Open gate & cropped modes. It can record BRAW when used with a Blackmagic Video Assist. Apparently it has very good 5-axis stabilization.

With its latest firmware update its autofocus appears to work quite well. It has a built-in EVF & LCD. It can record 96khz 24-bit audio. Panasonic sells an optional XLR audio adapter for it. Its full-size HDMI port can output clean 10-bit HD or 4K. Its lightweight 740g/1.6 pound body sips very little power (5w) via an internal battery or any external USB-C PD source. On-screen tools such as waveform, vectorscope, zebras, peaking, etc. V-Log and custom LUTs. WiFi & Bluetooth. An internal fan prevents overheating.

I paid $2070 (a limited-time deal from Hunts Photo & Video) including the very nice Lumix 20-60mm lens, free shipping, and Panasonic's 3-year warranty. After it arrives next week I'll report back with my hands-on reactions.

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On 5/20/24 Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:

I received my Panasonic Lumix S5iiX camera last week (and I love it!), and today Blackmagic drastically lowered the price of the Cinema Camera 6K! What a great time to be alive!

There are advantages & disadvantages to the CC6K compared to the Lumix S5iiX:

• Both cameras have the same/similar 24 megapixel full-frame, dual-ISO 6K sensor.
• Both cams have an L-mount lens mount, and can use the same lenses.
• The S5iiX has excellent continuous autofocus & manual focus aids. The CC6K has temporary AF & manual focus aids.
• The S5iiX has 5-axis in-body sensor stabilization. The CC6K does not.
• The CC6K has an internal OLPF filter permanently mounted on the sensor. The S5iiX does not. An OLPF eliminates moire/color artifacts visible in extremely-fine, high-contrast details in both video & stills.
• The S5iiX can shoot 24 megapixel RAW/JPEG stills, and can shoot RAW/JPEG stills at up to 96 megapixels via sensor-shift. This hi-res feature works extremely well for relatively static scenes (such as certain landscapes & product shots). Due to its high resolution, its 96MP stills exhibit little if any visible moire artifacts. The CC6K maximum stills resolution is 24 megapixels, and its stills functionality is very basic.

• The CC6K weighs almost twice as much as the S5iiX.
• The S5iiX can record up to 6K 10-bit H265 & H264 internally & externally (to SSD), and up to 6K 10-bit ProRes HQ externally to SSD, and up to 6K 12-bit BRAW externally to a Blackmagic Video Assist monitor/recorder. The CC6K can record up to 6K 12-bit BRAW internally & externally to SSD (no ProRes).
• The S5iiX HDMI port can output 10-bit 4K or HD video to an external monitor. The CC6K HDMI port outputs 10-bit HD only.

• The S5iiX includes both a built-in EVF and a 3” tilt/swivel, bright LCD. The CC6K includes a built-in 5”, high-brightness tilt LCD (its EVF is a $500 option, and its tilt LCD doesn’t swivel).
• The CC6K has 2 mini-XLR audio input ports with phantom power support. The S5iiX has a 1/8” stereo mini jack audio input port (its dual XLR option costs $395 and supports 96khz 24-bit audio).
• The S5iiX can power or quick-charge from any standard USB-C “PD” supply. The CC6K uses its own AC adaptor or 12V source, or can trickle charge from USB-C.
• Like all Blackmagic cameras, the CC6K has the best menu UI in the world, period. The S5iiX menu UI is more complicated/confusing, but is more versatile & can be customized/simplified.
• In the US, the S5iiX and LUMIX lenses have a 3-year manufacturers warranty. The CC6K has a 1-year manufacturers warranty.

I probably missed something, but the above are what first come to my mind.

My guess for the reason Blackmagic lowered the price on the CC6K is because BMD got a big discount on the sensor from the manufacturer (Sony?), or possibly because CC6K sales slowed significantly when they announced their new "PYXIS" 6K box camera (which has very similar features & yet costs more). But those are just my guesses.

I think both cams are great, but I’m still glad I bought the S5iiX. Its features & lower weight are a better match for my needs. And I got a _really_ good bundle deal on the LUMIX lens(es) included with my S5iiX (final total: $2,119 with 2 batteries, a Lumix S 20-60mm f3.5-5.6 lens, and Lumix S 50mm f1.8 lens). I also bought a $49 SmallRig cage for it.

Horses for courses. More thoughts later; gotta run & go shoot 96MP stills with my S5iiX! Cheers.

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[Nevyn72]

final total: $2,119 with 2 batteries, a Lumix S 20-60mm f3.5-5.6 lens, and Lumix S 50mm f1.8 lens

Very nice price, I paid €3000,- in the Netherlands for the same set, but only 1 battery (including taxes)

 

[PJD]

Fortunately, there's no sales tax here in the state of Oregon. I also bought a basic F-to-L-mount lens adapter for $65 to use with ancient manual lenses I have fun using. I currently have an old Vivitar f5.6 300mm prime, and KEH.com is shipping me a 70-210mm f4.5-5.6 lens. Both cost less than $70 each. For me these lenses produce adequate images in certain circumstances, and I perversely enjoy using them. (I previously used several different very old F-mount manual lenses on my many different M43 cameras via a basic adapter.)

 

[CharlesH]

I probably missed something, but the above are what first come to my mind.

That's a really good comparison between the Cinema Camera 4K and the S5IIx. I guess I can live with the menus on the 5SIIx. I've tested BRAW with the Blackmagic Video Assist, it works fine, but I prefer to use ProRes out to a SSD with the S5IIx.

 

[dirk]

 

[CharlesH]

The PYXIS 6K looks good. That should be competitive.

 

[halfmac]

I own the Lumix S5M2X and assorted L-Mount lenses. Also Lumix G camera and lenses. I primarily do video and now I am doing a lot of live multi cam switching with a Blackmagic Mini Pro Extreme video switcher. So I bought a used BM Pocket Cinema Camera 4K to check its compatibility with my switcher and my lenses which are 4/3. I really like the integration of the camera with the switcher. It allows me to control focus aperture color, balance, iso with the switcher app on my McIntosh computer. Because of this when Black Magic put the sale on for the Cinema Camera 6K after some hesitation, I bought it at $1600.
I am now evaluating this camera and it has its pluses and minuses. The one of the big plus is being able to use my L-Mount glass. The 6K image from the camera is quite nice. The camera records in Blackmagic Raw, which is its only format. The camera is compatible with my Black Magic video switcher.
Compared to my Lumix cameras there would be a few negatives about the Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K. It is a very large camera. It is a heavier camera. It feels more like plastic than the Lumix. There is no built-in viewfinder. That can be purchased for $500. You can view the 5 inch monitor outdoors on a sunny day.
The only recording media that can be used in the camera is CFexpress. Cards which are quite expensive. The reason for this is that the camera only records black magic raw. You can record on an external SSD like the Lumix. Also, because of it recording only Blackmagic Raw, there are fixed resolutions for the video to be recorded. With 6K you are using the whole sensor. From there, 4K is windowed and does not offer UHD video which is the consumer 4K and in 16 x 9. So if I am recording in my 1080 P video switcher the only modes that the camera does in 16 x 19 is a super 16 windowed format and 1080 P in a windowed format. The those two are heavily cropped on the sensor and turn my wide angle lens into a telephoto. So if I have my other cameras set at 16 nine those are the only two modes I can use without getting black bars at the top and bottom from the 6K camera. Oh, it is so nice that Panasonic gives us so many formats.
Also at 6K, the camera exhibits greater rolling shutter than my Lumix.
I am deciding whether to keep this camera as I have a return window if I want to use it.

 

[dirk]

Thank you for these first impressions. This will help others, who are close to buy on this promotion, a lot.

 

[PJD]

Thank you for these first impressions. This will help others, who are close to buy on this promotion, a lot.

Agreed! Very helpful observations by halfmac!

 

[PJD]

Just to add: I'm a huge fan of Blackmagic RAW (BRAW). It was my preferred recording format when I used my Pocket 4K camera. I most often used the "Q5" BRAW mode (very high quality, and relatively low data rates.)

That said, I've been a equally-huge fan of Apple ProRes for many decades. The reorded quality is excellent (almost as good as BRAW), but of course ProRes data rates & storage requirements are much higher for similar quality compared to BRAW.

As I don't have a need for another external monitor, I won't be acquiring a Blackmagic Video Assist to record BRAW with my S5iiX. Instead I'll occasionally record ProRes to an external SSD. For most video I'll happily use one of the S5iiX high-quality h265 recording modes.

The recording capability, flexibility and relative low-cost of today's hybrid (photo/video) cameras is astounding!

 

[Nevyn72]

Just to add: I'm a huge fan of Blackmagic RAW (BRAW). It was my preferred recording format when I used my Pocket 4K camera. I most often used the "Q5" BRAW mode (very high quality, and relatively low data rates.)

That said, I've been a equally-huge fan of Apple ProRes for many decades. The reorded quality is excellent (almost as good as BRAW), but of course ProRes data rates & storage requirements are much higher for similar quality compared to BRAW.

As I don't have a need for another external monitor, I won't be acquiring a Blackmagic Video Assist to record BRAW with my S5iiX. Instead I'll occasionally record ProRes to an external SSD. For most video I'll happily use one of the S5iiX high-quality h265 recording modes.

The recording capability, flexibility and relative low-cost of today's hybrid (photo/video) cameras is astounding!

Now that the first Lumix camera what will support ARRI-Raw appeared, what do you think of that?

 

[CharlesH]

Here is a new Blackmagic camera, for producing Apple Vision Pro immersive video. If you know the Apple Vision Pro, it is capable of showing amazing spatial video. Unfortunately there are not many really good spatial videos available, and there isn't much good gear available for filming them, so there is a pent up demand for this camera. Finally, Blackmagic is introducing equipment a film crew can get to produce these videos. I've heard the camera is about $15,000 US; and a crew might need about three of them to do a good job.