Leica SL3 vs. Hasselblad X2D etc.

[dirk]

Fullframe cameras are so good nowadays, that a question pops up again and again. Is it worth it to buy today Medium Format?

I do not want to go into detail about MF vs. FF. But I find these two video for L-Mount users interesting to get a better feeling about the Leica SL3 sensor, which we probably get on the Lumix S1R MKii.

Both videos are long. Use the chapters on the buttom to fast forward to the posts you are most interested in. Probably image quality, AF etc.









In another SL3 video a youtuber complains about the time it takes to review the images after you press the play button. I havethe same problem with my Leica Q3 43. That is really annoying me. I hiope they will fix this with a FW update soon. Both on the SL3 and the Q3 43.

 

[pdk42]

Let me guess (TLDR) - the MF is better, but the FF is pretty good. Am I right?

 

[Oíche]

In another SL3 video a youtuber complains about the time it takes to review the images after you press the play button. I havethe same problem with my Leica Q3 43.

It's slow on S5ii also and I'm assuming every other Lumix camera, it's like 1-1.5sec which seems insignificant but it's a bit like using a older budget smart phone... That annoying delay which feels like a mini prison sentence

But the 5GHz wifi upgrade didn't speed file transfer up and that's too slow at ~ 3-6MB/s. The camera to LumixLabs fked up on me last night and couldn't get it working again. It's still rough!

 

[dirk]

Let me guess (TLDR) - the MF is better, but the FF is pretty good. Am I right?

It depends on the size of the print, which is more a question on the amount of MP. 60MP vs. 100MP and the sensor ratio.

But in that video, I do not see any dynamic range advantage of the MF camera vs. fullframe.

The blurring fall-off will probably be better with Medium Format, if you want to use selective DOF

According to the video, if at all, you will only see a difference in landscape shots. Not in street photography, people etc.

 

[dirk]

I find it interesting that the 60 MP sensor of the SL3 is less forgiving with overexposed images than with underexposed images.

I had with the S5ii the feeling that both can be recovered the same amount

 

[Oíche]

Proper medium format was 67 or 645, this 44x33 I don't consider MF which is why it's difficult to see a difference.

 

[pdk42]

I find it interesting that the 60 MP sensor of the SL3 is less forgiving with overexposed images than with underexposed images.

This is all to do with the saturation point of the sensor and its ISO calibration. Setting things up so that there is little headroom for overexposure has the benefit of keeping the shadows cleaner if you go lifting them in PP. But of course, it does mean that you need to underexpose more to preserve highlights, so then you need to push more. There is no magic here, it's just about how the metering loads up the charge wells!

I had with the S5ii the feeling that both can be recovered the same amount

When Kirk Tuck did his tests of the S5 vs the EM1.3, he found that the S5 was worse at highlight recovery (using raw files of course). I actually agree with him. But the S5 is way better at dealing with lifting brightness afterwards (as you might expect given the much bigger pixels). So, the best technique is keep the S5 exposure down. I personally ignore the meter anyhow and just use the zebras to ensure that I'm not blowing out anything important. I don't care what the meter is telling me - the zebras and my eyeballs are my exposure meter.

 

[pdk42]

Proper medium format was 67 or 645, this 44x33 I don't consider MF which is why it's difficult to see a difference.

Ignoring what we might or might not call "proper MF", the areas of the various formats are as below:

M43: 224 mm^2
APSC: 368 mm^2
FF: 864 mm^2
MF: 1452m mm^2

This means that the scaling jumping to and from FF is:

M43 to FF - 3.85
APSC to FF - 2.34
FF to MF - 1.68

In other words, the difference between FF and MF is small compared to the difference between M43 and FF, or even APSC to FF. In fact, the difference is similar to that between M43 and APSC (1.64). Many people consider M43 and APSC to be quite close in terms of real IQ.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

Ignoring what we might or might not call "proper MF", the areas of the various formats are as below:

M43: 224 mm^2
APSC: 368 mm^2
FF: 864 mm^2
MF: 1452m mm^2

This means that the scaling jumping to and from FF is:

M43 to FF - 3.85
APSC to FF - 2.34
FF to MF - 1.68

In other words, the difference between FF and MF is small compared to the difference between M43 and FF, or even APSC to FF. In fact, the difference is similar to that between M43 and APSC (1.64). Many people consider M43 and APSC to be quite close in terms of real IQ.

Hasselblad and Fuji use "cropped" MF sensors - about 44 x33. Phase One uses a "full" MF sensor - about 54 x40. Or, about 2160 mm^2.

 

[pdk42]

An interesting point about these various formats is the aspect ratio. APSC and FF are both 3:2, MFT and the Fuji/Hasselblad MF are 4:3, with the Phase One at roughly 5:4.

Personally, I’d like to see a square sensor. That way there’s no need to rotate for landscape/portrait orientation - all you need to do is crop to suit the scene. Of course, back in film days, lots of MF cameras used 120 film with a 6x6 frame size.

 

[dirk]

4x4 would be cool. But I doubt that this will ever happen. The Ricoh GR3 has an optional square ratio available, but you loose pixel with that crop with a 24MP sensor.

 

[xaviergut]

Don't waste 1 hour of your Life with this videa... I did it...

I thought there would be some information about the triple resolution sensor in this video. Also about the ISO performance and dynamic range/noise or loss of detail in the three resolution variables: 60/36/18mpx.

I also thought it would address the issue of overall camera slowness. Or something about the 8k video performance.

But not, NOTHING. NOTHING AT ALL.

I'm sorry, but the collection of obvious information about photography, lenses and cameras mixed with the display of expensive cameras and lenses without any need other than the need to show off is very unhelpful.

I made the mistake, don't (you) do it, please.

 

[Oíche]

Don't waste 1 hour of your Life with this videa

I'd know looking at the still to not waste 5sec, what bad have you commited to suffer such a self-imposed sentence?

 

[xaviergut]

I'd know looking at the still to not waste 5sec, what bad have you commited to suffer such a self-imposed sentence?

Hahaha

I was hearing the video as a podcasts while I was walking the dog, waiting for some interesting information... but not, nothing at all.