Latest S1ii rumours

[pdk42]

For me the most interesting thing about the sensor as implemented in the Leica SL3 is the ISO capability. One reviewer mentioned that he could see no difference between shooting at 1600 ISO or shooting at 100 ISO and bumping the exposure slider 4 stops in Lightroom. In theory this is how it should be, but for most cameras it isn't.

A more forgiving sensor with greater dynamic range and bit depth is more important to me at this stage than MP. As Paul said earlier - 40mp is plenty.

Yes, it does seem to deliver very good noise behaviour, esp for such a high density design. I downloaded some raws just this last week and I was very impressed, not just with the amount of noise, but also its quality - it looks fine-grained and more like old-style film grain than digital noise.

However, I think in absolute terms, there's still more noise at high ISO with the SL3 than with the 24Mp sensors in the S1, S5 etc. That sensor really is quite amazing. I find these days that my go-to camera is the S1 rather than the S1R. 24Mp really is enough for most things and the ability to abuse the image in PP, even above base ISO, is a step up on what the 47Mp sensor in the S1R can do. I still think the S1R delivers slightly more colour depth and at base ISO there's still a benefit there, but I find the S1R to degrade quite quickly once past about ISO 1600.

 

[AlanC]

Yes, it does seem to deliver very good noise behaviour, esp for such a high density design. I downloaded some raws just this last week and I was very impressed, not just with the amount of noise, but also its quality - it looks fine-grained and more like old-style film grain than digital noise.

Leica / Panasonic appear to have created the best implementation of the 60MP sensor from a noise perspective. DPReview haven't photographed their studio test scene with the SL3 yet, but if you compare the Q3 43 to other cameras using that sensor (Sigma fp L, Sony A7RV) then the Leica has the lowest noise and the least colour blotching: DPReview Studio Shot comparison You may need to copy and paste that link to get it to work.

 

[pdk42]

Leica / Panasonic appear to have created the best implementation of the 60MP sensor from a noise perspective. DPReview haven't photographed their studio test scene with the SL3 yet, but if you compare the Q3 43 to other cameras using that sensor (Sigma fp L, Sony A7RV) then the Leica has the lowest noise and the least colour blotching: DPReview Studio Shot comparison You may need to copy and paste that link to get it to work.

View attachment 8438

Wow, the A7RV is by far the worst. Wonder why it's so much behind the others?

 

[pdk42]

And a comparison with the S1 instead of the S1R:

 

[Lsake]

I’ve been waiting for a very long time for panasonic to release an updated high resolution camera. Something using the 61MP sony sensor would be completely fine so long as it has competent auto focus, and is reliable in operation. However, the SL3 has been the subject of several complaints, from slow operation to outright bugs causing loss of images. It’s also said to have pretty sub par performance in continuous AF. If they are using the internals of this camera as the base that is pretty concerning, and possibly why it seems to have been delayed for so long.

I would not expect the S1RII to come out beating an A1 or a Z8/9 in terms of speed and spec sheet, But it needs to at least be on par with what sony have shown is possible with the A7RV. Also, it can’t be more than £2,500. I can buy a brand new A7RV for £2,800 any time there is a cash back offer. I can get a used one for about £2,600. If they re-use the same S5II body again, I wouldn’t pay more than £2300. Ideally they need to announce a higher end lens with it too. I’d hope for the 100-500mm but to be honest any high end lens would do just to show some commitment.

 

[PJD]

That is a very thorough review, thanks.

As much as I appreciate Black Magic, I don't know of any major filmmakers that use their cameras. So I don't know their market penetration, or who uses them. As example I know a mid-range filmmaker who is just now buying several new cameras, and he is getting Raptors. Early on I recall Blackmagic had a poor reputation for reliability, and for not working out all the bugs before production. I think they are probably well past all this, but any smell of poor reliability will instantly scare off filmmakers. I do hope they ultimately become very successful with these cameras; the technology is amazing.

You may already know, but FYI: The new Blackmagic Ursa Cine 12K LF camera is recently “Netflix approved”, which should cause it to be used in an increasing number of productions large, medium and small, either via outright purchase or rentals.
Netflix production guide for Blackmagic Cinema 12K camera

Meanwhile, one of the earliest adopters of Blackmagic cameras, DP John Brawley, for years has used various models on numerous productions for Netflix, Apple TV, etc. with budgets probably totaling by now many many many dozens of millions of $. On most productions he uses multiple cameras from multiple manufacturers. The Blackmagic cams are not typically used as "A" cams, although this is gradually changing.

JB frequently contributes very helpful posts on Blackmagic's own user forum (please I hope it's OK to post links to JB's posts!); here are just a few of his recent posts:
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?p=1096931#p1096931

Blackmagic Forum • View topic - Shooting in 12800 ISO… amazing or just over the top

forum.blackmagicdesign.com

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?p=1093452#p1093452

... if the above links don't work, just go to the forum, log in, and search on his name.

Meanwhile, this just in: For folks who have the budget and own/rent the appropriate required accessories, $7K for the body-only is a steal:
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/media/release/20250130-01

I'm not in the target market, just an interested observer.

 

[pdk42]

I’ve been waiting for a very long time for panasonic to release an updated high resolution camera. Something using the 61MP sony sensor would be completely fine so long as it has competent auto focus, and is reliable in operation. However, the SL3 has been the subject of several complaints, from slow operation to outright bugs causing loss of images. It’s also said to have pretty sub par performance in continuous AF. If they are using the internals of this camera as the base that is pretty concerning, and possibly why it seems to have been delayed for so long.

I would not expect the S1RII to come out beating an A1 or a Z8/9 in terms of speed and spec sheet, But it needs to at least be on par with what sony have shown is possible with the A7RV. Also, it can’t be more than £2,500. I can buy a brand new A7RV for £2,800 any time there is a cash back offer. I can get a used one for about £2,600. If they re-use the same S5II body again, I wouldn’t pay more than £2300. Ideally they need to announce a higher end lens with it too. I’d hope for the 100-500mm but to be honest any high end lens would do just to show some commitment.

Yes, I read a number of reports from professional photographers who dumped Leica after really bad experiences with the SL3 - including repeated lock-ups and corrupted images on the cards. It’s also been slated for slow operation and poor battery life. I also read quite a few complaints about shutter sound - it seems more akin to the S5 than the S1. The IBIS is also worse than the SL2, which is a weird move.

Well, let’s see what Panasonic bring us. To be honest, I’ll be grateful for anything that shows their commitment.