Is the S1R (1) dead?

[RBecker]

A very clickbaiting headline I know

But after all of the hype the last days I want to share a very personal opinion, by a short stoy:

I bought the S1R in summer 2020, after end of the first lockdown. I was searching for something new in addition to my MFT equipment. In former times (90s and 2000s) I was working with 24x36 for everything „normal“ and with medium format 6x7 for anything „special“ where I wanted better quality. But these MF cameras (Mamiya RB67 and Pentax 67) where anything but fast…
When I switched to digital in 2004 (an EOS20D), very fast the old film was done, because digital even with only 8MP was better for my my needs than 24x36 film before. When I switched to an EOS 5DII in 2009 the results where competetive with medium format! But the weight of the Canon and good lenses was something that let me test and then change to MFT
I can print poster up to A2(40x60cm)myself and this size is no problem for MFT. So I changed to the much more lightweight equipment…

But as said after the first lockdown I was remembering the good old times how I worked with a medium format camera. Modern digital MF is extremly expensive and so I „found“ the S1R. Very heavy, big in size, but also very good from the output (47MP and 188MP with Highres). I got a very good offer for a new S1R for 2400€ and startet with some Sigma Art lenses (much cheaper than the competition, but also big and heavy…). The results where awesome. Even if my prints could not always show this additional quality, it was pure fun!
When I bought the camera I knew that the camera was heavy and the AF not close to the contenders. But I wanted to use the S1R like my old Pentax 67 in former times. And that was one of my best decisions ever!

Now we have the S1RII: much better in AF and also more lightweight. Including a lot of updates from the S5II, which never where brought to the S1R, even if somethings would be easily possible with firmware. Will I switch to the body?

Not for now and the near future for a some reasons:
For the kind of pictures I bought the S1R the camera still works like before. Studiophotography (portraits, fashion), landscape and architecture will not be better with the new one. Taking portraits the AF has problems with strong backlight, but I know this and can deal with it. I will still not carry the camera to holiday, but therefore I have my MFT Olympus. In terms of handling the bigger body of the S1R fits perfect into my hand, much better than the S5/II. And for sports and action I also use my Olympus MFT.
So for me actually I don‘t have any need to change.

Very personal, of course. But maybe this short story is also of interest for anybody else, thinking what to do. If someone only uses one camera for any situation: update. If you don‘t have an MFT or S5II for faster action: update. If you don‘t mind the money: update
But if you are on the „slower“ side of photography, the S1R is still the best camera I have ever owned in 40years! And just because there is a much better new version, the output of the predecessor is not getting worse…

 

[Travis Butler]

A very clickbaiting headline I know

Well, yes.

Now we have the S1RII: much better in AF and also more lightweight. Including a lot of updates from the S5II, which never where brought to the S1R, even if somethings would be easily possible with firmware.

Just a reminder: As @Richard Wong mentioned in another thread, people make a lot of unjustified assumptions that things are 'easily possible in firmware' when they are anything but.

Just because something appears to be done in software doesn't mean it can be done on just any set of hardware. The processor has to be fast enough. If it's anything that involves combining/modifying images, you need to have enough working space in the camera's memory to do those operations. Heck, one of my favorite 'simple software-only' wish list items - a storable list of name/focal length/aperture combinations for use with manual lenses - requires non-volatile storage for those names, and it simply might not be there. Don't assume that just because something appears to be software-only, that it can actually be done.

In terms of handling the bigger body of the S1R fits perfect into my hand, much better than the S5/II.

It seems to me that you're assuming, without actually trying it, that the smaller body of the S1Rii will handle worse than the S1R just because it's smaller.

Why not reserve judgement until you actually have one in your hands? Size is far from everything. When I was looking at full-frame, I rented both the Nikon Z5 and the S5 to try them out. Despite them being about the same size, the Z5 handled much worse than the S5, for me.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

Well said. I've said it before, as have others: The S1* bodies have that "special" quality that results in a desirability that transcends technical ability. Like buying an older 911 even though the latest Lexus is faster. For some of us, the experience is as important - if not more important - than the ability.

And, as you say, the S1R's ability for Landscape is:

 

[RBecker]

Well, yes.

Just a reminder: As @Richard Wong mentioned in another thread, people make a lot of unjustified assumptions that things are 'easily possible in firmware' when they are anything but.

Just because something appears to be done in software doesn't mean it can be done on just any set of hardware. The processor has to be fast enough. If it's anything that involves combining/modifying images, you need to have enough working space in the camera's memory to do those operations. Heck, one of my favorite 'simple software-only' wish list items - a storable list of name/focal length/aperture combinations for use with manual lenses - requires non-volatile storage for those names, and it simply might not be there. Don't assume that just because something appears to be software-only, that it can actually be done.

Maybe the names can not be stored, but it would be no problem to store the selected focal length within the EXIF data, what was not possible after years within the S1R
Also a better selection of bracketing ranges would be no problem, if someone decides just to do it

I‘m working long enough in software development to know that not everything is possible, but also knowing that sometimes just nobody is interested in changes…

It seems to me that you're assuming, without actually trying it, that the smaller body of the S1Rii will handle worse than the S1R just because it's smaller.

I‘m only assuming the S1RII is comparable to the S5II, which I know quite well. A lot of reviewers where also using this comparison. And from my experience the handling of the S1R for me (!) is much better than the S5II. As said only the weight is horrible…

Why not reserve judgement until you actually have one in your hands? Size is far from everything. When I was looking at full-frame, I rented both the Nikon Z5 and the S5 to try them out. Despite them being about the same size, the Z5 handled much worse than the S5, for me.

The handling was only one argument, I stated others. Anfd my main point of the thread is, that the S1R is still a capable camera, of course not for everyone…

 

[Travis Butler]

I‘m only assuming the S1RII is comparable to the S5II, which I know quite well. A lot of reviewers where also using this comparison. And from my experience the handling of the S1R for me (!) is much better than the S5II. As said only the weight is horrible…

…………

I’m sorry to be rude, but I have to say it: Did you even read what I wrote?

I explicitly compared two cameras that were about the same size that had very different handling. Many things affect handling that have nothing to do with the overall body size. The positioning, shape and depth of the grip. Location and spacing of the controls. How the weight is distributed. I thought the Nikon Z5 would handle reasonably from the pics, but when I got one in my hands I hated it - all from things I could only tell by shooting with it and trying to make the finger stretches. I’ll say it explicitly: pictures are not an acceptable way to judge the handling.

I don't think it’s justified to use the S5ii to judge the S1Rii. Maybe they will handle similarly. Maybe they won’t. Until I can hold one in my hands, I sure can’t say for sure. But it sounds to me like you made up your mind in advance, without enough evidence.

 

[RBecker]

…………

I’m sorry to be rude, but I have to say it: Did you even read what I wrote?

I explicitly compared two cameras that were about the same size that had very different handling. Many things affect handling that have nothing to do with the overall body size. The positioning, shape and depth of the grip. Location and spacing of the controls. How the weight is distributed. I thought the Nikon Z5 would handle reasonably from the pics, but when I got one in my hands I hated it - all from things I could only tell by shooting with it and trying to make the finger stretches. I’ll say it explicitly: pictures are not an acceptable way to judge the handling.

I don't think it’s justified to use the S5ii to judge the S1Rii. Maybe they will handle similarly. Maybe they won’t. Until I can hold one in my hands,

I’m sorry to be rude, but I have to say it: Did you even read what I wrote?

At the beginning I just said , that the S1R has a much better handling than the S5II - FOR ME! Not more or less!
And I also said, that this is only one argument for me and even not the main argument. I don‘t need the new functions of the S1RII right now.
And I only said, that everybody should consider an upgrade by his own needs. If someone thinks it is worth the upgrade : Buy!

So I don‘t see your point except starting to be rude without any reason. If you don‘t like my story, you can say this direct. No problem. If you want to fight for the S1RII: no problem. It is a great camera. But why this drama?

Hope this is now set. It seems like a fruitless discussion to me…

 

[dirk]

Come on guys, this is nothing to heat up the mood. Only different opinions

The YouTube reviews I have seen took the S5ii comparison to compare size and weight. There was one review, I do not remember which one, in which it was said that the S1Rii feels very solid, not as solid as the S1R, but more solid as the S5ii.

At the end of the day this is all very subjective. We will find out more as soon as the first S1Rii get to our members.

 

[xaviergut]

By the way, Smallrig launched a new cage compatible with the S1Rii, S5ii/x and G9ii

Cage for Panasonic LUMIX S1R II / S5 II / S5 IIX / G9 II

Cage for Panasonic LUMIX S1R II / S5 II / S5 IIX / G9 II【SmallRig - DIY Camera Rigs, Stabilizers and Other Camera Accessories】

www.smallrig.com

In some reviews it is said that the previous cages are almost compatible with the new S1Rii. The Tilta one, for example is totally compatible. The Smallrig blackmamba almost... etc.

 

[Travis Butler]

So I don‘t see your point except starting to be rude without any reason. If you don‘t like my story, you can say this direct. No problem. If you want to fight for the S1RII: no problem. It is a great camera. But why this drama?

Because, as I said, I’m sorry to be rude… but you completely ignored what I said about two cameras the same size handling differently, as if I never even said it. It sounded like you didn’t even listen and plowed ahead with your argument anyway, and that’s at least as rude.

As to why I care - I’m not trying to defend the S1Rii. I’m trying to keep an open mind and avoid pre-judging it; it’s still very early and there’s a fair amount of conflicting information swirling around. I was annoyed by the initial post because it felt like it was pre-judging, in context with your other posts in the S1Rii threads.