Closed shutter when camera is turned off

[pdk42]

So, the new S1ii models support a feature where the shutter is closed when you power off the camera - I guess to protect against dust.

But its use comes with this warning when you enable it:

The shutter may be damaged if pointed the camera towards strong light sources such as sunlight or if touched it while the camera is turned off.

Ignoring the bad English grammar (can't Panasonic get someone to check this stuff?), I'm a bit surprised by the first part of this warning. I'm assuming it means with a lens attached since in that case the sun might be focussed onto a spot on the shutter. The conclusion can only be that the shutter material can't withstand the temperature of a focussed sun onto it. It's also implying that the sensor does not have the same problem, which I'm sceptical about.

So I have two questions really:

- Is the shutter more likely to be damaged than the sensor if the sun gets focussed onto either of them?
- What are the risks in any case? Is it worse with a telephoto lens? How long would it take for damage to occur?

What's everyone else's thoughts on this?

 

[xaviergut]

I'm no expert, but I think the curtain that lowers on the Z8 and Z9 isn't the shutter. On other Nikon cameras (Z6, Z7, etc.), the "curtain" is the mechanical shutter, which doesn't exist on the 8 and 9.

I think the question is: is the sensor or the shutter more fragile, sensitive, or delicate? If the shutter is lowered when changing lenses, it can be touched and there's a risk of malfunctioning later.

I believe Canon has filed a patent for a shutter-like barrier mechanism:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/4480580879/canon-patent-application-shows-barrier-mechanism-for-protecting-mirrorless-image-sensors

 

[Travis Butler]

The main cases I’ve heard of were during the recent eclipses… but those were some doozies.

Rental Camera Gear Destroyed by the Solar Eclipse of 2017

We recently had quite a spectacle in the United States, with a Solar Eclipse reaching totality throughout a large portion of the United States. Being that this was the first solar eclipse passing through the Continental US since 1979, excitement ran wild on capturing this natural event using the...

www.lensrentals.com

 

[pdk42]

The main cases I’ve heard of were during the recent eclipses… but those were some doozies.

Rental Camera Gear Destroyed by the Solar Eclipse of 2017

We recently had quite a spectacle in the United States, with a Solar Eclipse reaching totality throughout a large portion of the United States. Being that this was the first solar eclipse passing through the Continental US since 1979, excitement ran wild on capturing this natural event using the...

www.lensrentals.com

That's a very interesting article. It confirms to me that both the shutter and sensor are susceptible to damage if you focus the sun on their surface. I've posted some examples below.






Bottom line for me is that you should avoid getting the sun to shine directly into your camera if it's motionless (e.g. on a tripod or resting on a flat surface); irrespective of whether you configure the camera to close the shutter or not at powerdown. Always put the lens cap on!

I think on this basis I'll configure the camera to close the shutter - it'll hopefully prevent some of the dust bunnies.

 

[Prosecutor]

BTW - they should add the option to automatically close the shutter on powering off even if electronic shutter is active.

 

[pdk42]

BTW - they should add the option to automatically close the shutter on powering off even if electronic shutter is active.

It does that already.

 

[Prosecutor]

You‘re absolutely right. I always used the silent mode to activate the electronic shutter. And in silent mode it doesnˋt close the shutter. I will change that immediately.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

- What are the risks in any case? Is it worse with a telephoto lens? How long would it take for damage to occur?

What's everyone else's thoughts on this?

Interesting. When I read the warnings, I thought Panasonic was warning us about the potential damage that could occur if you remove the lens and just let the body sit there for a while with the lens removed and no body cap on. After all, the shutter is closed, correct? So letting it just sit there for a few minutes with the shutter exposed (but not the sensor) is perhaps not a big deal, right? Not that I agree with that, but I could see people making that assumption. And, if they were to do that while the black shutter is exposed to direct sunlight on a hot day, I could see it permanently warping due to the resulting thermal stresses. Shutter gets hot, warps, and you are done.

Anyway, certainly the LensRentals article shows that if this happens with the lens on - i.e., you point the lens directly at the sun with no lens cap for too long, you are likely to burn through the shutter AND the sensor. So it really doesn't matter if the shutter is closed or not.

 

[CharlesH]

What's everyone else's thoughts on this?

I had a Sony A1 for several years that had the same thing - the shutter closes when you power off the camera. Sony has a similar warning (I forget whether their grammar was an issue). My habit is to always have a lens cap on the lens if I'm not shooting and Ive done this with other cameras to protect the sensor as well. Anyway I never had any damage to the A1's shutter, either from the sun or touching it, and that camera had significantly less dust contamination than my other cameras.

 

[pdk42]

Interesting. When I read the warnings, I thought Panasonic was warning us about the potential damage that could occur if you remove the lens and just let the body sit there for a while with the lens removed and no body cap on. After all, the shutter is closed, correct? So letting it just sit there for a few minutes with the shutter exposed (but not the sensor) is perhaps not a big deal, right? Not that I agree with that, but I could see people making that assumption. And, if they were to do that while the black shutter is exposed to direct sunlight on a hot day, I could see it permanently warping due to the resulting thermal stresses. Shutter gets hot, warps, and you are done.

Anyway, certainly the LensRentals article shows that if this happens with the lens on - i.e., you point the lens directly at the sun with no lens cap for too long, you are likely to burn through the shutter AND the sensor. So it really doesn't matter if the shutter is closed or not.

I’d be surprised if simply exposing the shutter curtain to the sun would cause problems, but I could be wrong! In any case, it’s not something I’d do so it’s not a big deal.

What I find interesting is that presumably dash cams, smartphones, security cameras etc are regularly exposed to the sun for long periods without apparent harm.

 

[Travis Butler]

I’d be surprised if simply exposing the shutter curtain to the sun would cause problems, but I could be wrong! In any case, it’s not something I’d do so it’s not a big deal.

What I find interesting is that presumably dash cams, smartphones, security cameras etc are regularly exposed to the sun for long periods without apparent harm.

I’d guess it’s a matter of how much solar energy is focused on the camera parts.

With dashcams, smartphones, etc, the lens is very small - so in absolute terms it just doesn’t collect that much light/energy, even if it’s pointed at the sun for long periods.

But a DSLR/mirrorless lens has to collect a lot of light to fill the sensor. If you point it directly at the sun, it’s going to collect a lot more solar energy and concentrate it on the interior bits; and the longer it sits there, especially if it’s a tele lens that fills more of the frame with the sun…

 

[pdk42]

I’d guess it’s a matter of how much solar energy is focused on the camera parts.

With dashcams, smartphones, etc, the lens is very small - so in absolute terms it just doesn’t collect that much light/energy, even if it’s pointed at the sun for long periods.

But a DSLR/mirrorless lens has to collect a lot of light to fill the sensor. If you point it directly at the sun, it’s going to collect a lot more solar energy and concentrate it on the interior bits; and the longer it sits there, especially if it’s a tele lens that fills more of the frame with the sun…

Yes, I guess that’s the reason. But I think rather than total energy, it’s energy per unit area (I.e. the heating potential).

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

I’d be surprised if simply exposing the shutter curtain to the sun would cause problems, but I could be wrong!

Yeah, I don't know for sure either. However, given that the shutter is optimized to be light - in order to move quickly - and that it requires precise movement, I suspect it's rather fragile. In any event, it would be an interesting question to ask Sean during one of his LUMIX sessions on YT. Although I suspect the safe answer Panasonic would give is that both situations can be problematic - with the lens on or off.

In any case, it’s not something I’d do so it’s not a big deal.

What I find interesting is that presumably dash cams, smartphones, security cameras etc are regularly exposed to the sun for long periods without apparent harm.