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The 14-28 or two S14 + S28 f/1.8?

ermesjo

ermesjo

New Member
The first option is cheaper, the second is more expensive, but with an f/1.8. What is the pros, what is the cons? Stills. Video. I am considering….
 
The Lumix S 18mm f/1.8 https://shop.panasonic.com/products/s-series-18mm-f1-8-l-mount-lens
The Lumix S 24mm f/1.8 https://shop.panasonic.com/products/s-series-24mm-f1-8-l-mount-lens (I thought there was a 28mm, but it is a 24mm)
The Lumix S 35mm f/1.8 as an alternative https://shop.panasonic.com/products/s-series-35mm-f1-8-l-mount

So, at last, the zoom alternative Lumix S 14-28mm Macro f/4.0-5.6 https://shop.panasonic.com/products/s-series-14-28mm-f4-5-6-l-mount-lens

My point is: The more affordable zoom, versus faster primes.
 
ermesjo said:
The Lumix S 18mm f/1.8 https://shop.panasonic.com/products/s-series-18mm-f1-8-l-mount-lens
The Lumix S 24mm f/1.8 https://shop.panasonic.com/products/s-series-24mm-f1-8-l-mount-lens (I thought there was a 28mm, but it is a 24mm)
The Lumix S 35mm f/1.8 as an alternative https://shop.panasonic.com/products/s-series-35mm-f1-8-l-mount

So, at last, the zoom alternative Lumix S 14-28mm Macro f/4.0-5.6 https://shop.panasonic.com/products/s-series-14-28mm-f4-5-6-l-mount-lens

My point is: The more affordable zoom, versus faster primes.
Click to expand...

I guess there are four things to consider:
  1. Do you need a faster lens (f1.8) or will the zoom's f4-f5.6 work for your photography/videography?
  2. Do you mind carrying two lenses instead of one? (it would be an extra ~340g and space required in the bag)
  3. Do you need the macro capability in the 14-28mm?
  4. Do you mind paying double the cost of the zoom for two primes?
I have the 14-28mm and think it's a great lens and I rarely need to shoot less than f4 so it's the best choice for me.
 
Thank you. I have also watched a few reviews and regarding the optical quality, the 14-28mm is excellent. Yes, the objective considerations are absolutely in favour of this zoom lens.
 
As so often, the answer depends on what you are attempting to achieve; but I would happily say that if most of your shooting is outdoors, the 14-28mm is an excellent choice. It’s a very good lens, with semi-macro capabilities, and 14mm at the wide end gives you a lot of shooting opportunities that otherwise would not work.

On the other hand, if you shoot a lot in low light situations, I think the answer is more complicated and depends on the various payoffs. I have all three of these lenses and do much of my shooting in dark to extremely dark settings in churches and cathedrals. So, for example:

(1) A 14mm lens has a much wider field of view than an 18mm lens. The horizontal field of view at 14mm is about 104 degrees versus 90 degrees at 18mm. This means you can’t get shots like the one below at 18mm, but you can at 14mm.

(2) You’re losing between about 2 and 3 stops to the prime lenses. If you use modern machine-learning-driven noise reduction programmes, this need not be a problem, if you are willing to accept that the software will be reconstructing some details rather than truly recovering them. I use DxO Photolab and Topaz AI and find that most of the time the results are acceptable to me. If this is too much, the primes win.

(3) A zoom is more flexible – no faffing around changing lenses! But, using primes brings a certain discipline to it, slowing you down, forcing you to think about composition. My “cathedral process” is roughly the following. I start with the 14-28mm and go around the building with that lens, trying to get a feel for the shots I want to achieve. Then I put on the 18mm lens and shift into an “18mm mindset”, having observed the shots I want when I had the zoom on. Then I repeat with a 35mm prime and then repeat with an 85mm prime. If lighting conditions demand it, I do vary the order! As you see, I don't tend to use the 24mm too much, as I find cropping the 18mm (and upscaling if necessary) works surprisingly well.

(4) Zoom only equals less stuff to carry.

I don’t do much video, but for that I have done, the 14-28mm is a lot of fun!





PS5B4692_DxO-2.jpg
  • Panasonic - DC-S5M2
  • LUMIX S 14-28/F4-5.6
  • 14.0 mm
  • ƒ/4
  • 1/40 sec
  • Pattern
  • Auto bracket
  • ISO 2000
 
I chose the 16-35/4 because it is more versatile for me :) I can walk all day in a city just using that lens. 28 would be a bit too restrictive. And there is the Sigma 16-28/2.8, less versatile but a stop brighter. Before the summer vacation I will also get a S18/1.8 I presume... lot's of castles, cathedrals coming this summer, and I think about going to Florence with my son for a week. I think the extra speed of a 1.8 will help me there.
 
The discussion of zooms versus primes is eternal. I like using primes but the benefits of a zoom can't be denied, and then it depends on what zoom. I have the 16-35mm and find that the 28-35mm at the longer end is very valuable and makes the difference between an ultra-wide zoom and a lens that can be used as a general walk-about lens. However, I only have that lens because I got a great deal on it and had that not happened then I'd have gone for the Sigma 16-28mm, the Lumix 14-28mm or the Sigma 17mm f/4. Even now I would consider also getting the 17mm because it's a lot smaller.

All the lenses discussed here are very good optically so you need to decide whether you value speed over zoom range.

RuleOfThirds said:
I chose the 16-35/4 because it is more versatile for me :) I can walk all day in a city just using that lens. 28 would be a bit too restrictive. And there is the Sigma 16-28/2.8, less versatile but a stop brighter. Before the summer vacation I will also get a S18/1.8 I presume... lot's of castles, cathedrals coming this summer, and I think about going to Florence with my son for a week. I think the extra speed of a 1.8 will help me there.
Click to expand...

An ultra-wide will stand you in good stead in the Duomo in Florence though I'm not sure it need be a fast lens if you have IBIS, even in there. The other thing I'd recommend is a lens with a small front element, even if it's an old adapted one. Why? Because you can go up on top of the Duomo but there is a steel fence so you can't fall or jump off and a lens with a small front element will be able to take photos of the Duomo and the city between the bars of that fence. I used a Pentax 28mm f/2.8 (49mm filter ring) when I was there, though that was with my old APS-C DSLR but it should equally apply to FF.
 
ermesjo said:
The first option is cheaper, the second is more expensive, but with an f/1.8. What is the pros, what is the cons? Stills. Video. I am considering….
Click to expand...

Have you considered the Sigma 16-28/2.8 DG DN too?

Lighter, smaller and if 16mm is wide enough a very good option. And it takes filters.
 
Personally, I really like shooting prime lenses, mostly to get shallow DOF. I'm not looking for shallow DOF with an ultrawide, so the Lumix S 14-28mm suits me to a T. So that's what I mostly use there. I've also got the S 20-60mm, a vastly underrated lens I think, but 20mm isn't quite wide enough for my tastes.
I've got the Lumix 50mm f1.8 and also the 85mm. Fabulous lenses. I also bought the Sigma 28-70mm f2.8, it's another brilliant little lens, but I find I enjoy using the prime lenses more.
So it's really up to you, what you yourself enjoy shooting. We don't know that. Forget the $$, buy what's fun.
 
@ermesjo

What are you planning to shoot? Is weight/size or aperture important for you?

There are so many different options available in LMount, that it is hard to recommend something, if we do not have more information about you.

There is also the Lumix 18-40mm zoom, which is very light and compact.
 
Jonathan-Mac said:
An ultra-wide will stand you in good stead in the Duomo in Florence though I'm not sure it need be a fast lens if you have IBIS, even in there. The other thing I'd recommend is a lens with a small front element, even if it's an old adapted one. Why? Because you can go up on top of the Duomo but there is a steel fence so you can't fall or jump off and a lens with a small front element will be able to take photos of the Duomo and the city between the bars of that fence. I used a Pentax 28mm f/2.8 (49mm filter ring) when I was there, though that was with my old APS-C DSLR but it should equally apply to FF.
Click to expand...
Thanks for de tips! My GR3 will also be with me, and that one has a really TINY front element :) it's a 26mp 28mm equivalent aps-c camera. Lensunit it self is 44mm wide, and the lens opening it self is 25mm.
 
Well, the 14-28mm is my favorite Lumix FF lens. In addition to the image quality, especially for its versatility. I use it a lot in my work to document works of art in museums, interviews, etc.

Starting with the video, the focus is instantaneous, the zoom is internal, that is, it does not change size when the focal length changes, it is silent, it has controlled focus breathing and it is parfocal. If you use it at base ISO is not a problem at all.

Regarding photography, you have from 14mm
P1018801 (1).jpg
  • Panasonic - DC-S5M2
  • LUMIX S 14-28/F4-5.6
  • 14.0 mm
  • ƒ/5.2
  • 1/800 sec
  • Pattern
  • Manual exposure
  • ISO 1600


P1092058 (1).jpg
  • Panasonic - DC-S1R
  • LUMIX S 14-28/F4-5.6
  • 14.0 mm
  • ƒ/8
  • 1/200 sec
  • Pattern
  • Auto exposure
  • ISO 100


... to 28mm

_1091919.jpg
  • Panasonic - DC-S1R
  • LUMIX S 14-28/F4-5.6
  • 27.0 mm
  • ƒ/8
  • 1/60 sec
  • Pattern
  • Auto exposure
  • ISO 160


P1425902.jpg
  • Panasonic - DC-S5
  • LUMIX S 14-28/F4-5.6
  • 28.0 mm
  • ƒ/5.6
  • 1/60 sec
  • Pattern
  • Auto exposure
  • -1
  • ISO 125


... and you have also the apsc mode, 42mm focal length, but with the hybrid zoom you reach much further... and the macro option is there too DaumenhochDaumenhoch Smilie Plus it's not very big or very expensive.

This lens is the pinnacle of what Lumix can offer for "hybrid" content creator, IMHO.
 
Soon I'll have to choose a travel lens too. The idea is for the s9: 18-40, but optically speaking, it's so-so for its price, which is almost the same as 14-28 (better optically), but the dimensions. Option three: take nothing and go with 24/3.5.)p/s Last year I went with sigma 17.4 and viltrox 28.1.8 fixed lenses. This was enough, but taking off / putting on on the go is not very rosy.
 
dirk said:
@ermesjo

What are you planning to shoot? Is weight/size or aperture important for you?

There are so many different options available in LMount, that it is hard to recommend something, if we do not have more information about you.

There is also the Lumix 18-40mm zoom, which is very light and compact.
Click to expand...
One consideration is video with my new S5iiX. I bought an Atomos Ninja the same day I bought my Lumix. I am a newbee to technology like ProRes RAW, but have had hours with testing already. What I can see, however, is that you have flexibility with the ISO. So when we talk about aperture, will for instance an aperture like 1.8 or 4.0/5.6 matter ? OK, with f=4.0 or 5.6 you step down 2 or 3 EV's, and the S5iiX compensate with higher ISO. At the other hand, the 24mb sensor can handle noise quite well above 12800 - 25.600. Will the video then, be degraded that much. Pros and Cons and the $$$-factor (also important to me). Maybe I should not bother too much ? The 14-28 will also be effective regarding quick changes on a "set".
 
xaviergut said:
Well, the 14-28mm is my favorite Lumix FF lens. In addition to the image quality, especially for its versatility. I use it a lot in my work to document works of art in museums, interviews, etc.

Starting with the video, the focus is instantaneous, the zoom is internal, that is, it does not change size when the focal length changes, it is silent, it has controlled focus breathing and it is parfocal. If you use it at base ISO is not a problem at all.

Regarding photography, you have from 14mm
View attachment 8589

View attachment 8594

... to 28mm

View attachment 8591

View attachment 8592

... and you have also the apsc mode, 42mm focal length, but with the hybrid zoom you reach much further... and the macro option is there too DaumenhochDaumenhoch Smilie Plus it's not very big or very expensive.

This lens is the pinnacle of what Lumix can offer for "hybrid" content creator, IMHO.
Click to expand...
Maybe the main issue with my question was if an aperture like f/1.8 versus f/4.0-5.6 matter at all with the technological quality we have today. Meaning: If we considering stepping 3 EV's from 2.0 to 5.6, and respectively the ISO in a practical example on a "set" compensate and raise the bar from, say ISO 1600 up 3 steps to 12.800. Will this really ruin your video with noise or will the viewer notice it at all ? In 2025, maybe not. Even if you got, say, an 75 inch flat TV. Is this correct? Opinions.
 
ermesjo said:
Maybe the main issue with my question was if an aperture like f/1.8 versus f/4.0-5.6 matter at all with the technological quality we have today. Meaning: If we considering stepping 3 EV's from 2.0 to 5.6, and respectively the ISO in a practical example on a "set" compensate and raise the bar from, say ISO 1600 up 3 steps to 12.800. Will this really ruin your video with noise or will the viewer notice it at all ? In 2025, maybe not. Even if you got, say, an 75 inch flat TV. Is this correct? Opinions.
Click to expand...
Hello Dag. The S5ii/x has dual base/native ISO. In V-Log profile they are 640 and 4000. If the scene is very dark you can jump to 4000 ISO and the results are very good. If you want to see how exactly that works, I found a comment online very interesting about it from someone called "_cdcam" (I do copy and paste):

"Dual native ISO is a feature that's most commonly found on cinema cameras as it's mostly useful for video.

The setting in question doesn't have anything to do with picture profile or really even the ISO setting itself. This setting applies to the two available gain circuits within the sensor that amplify the signal being received. One low and one high. The way that the ISO and picture profile apply to this is there is a specific iso either high or low that creates the highest dynamic range depending on what picture profile you're using (V-Log, CineD, HLG, etc) I wish that this setting was implemented in the same way as they did on the Varicam 35 and LT as I think that is easiest to understand but the principle is the same. Keep in mind raw shooting is a different approach than using baked in color and settings as you would when recording internally. So the way ISO setting works is that gain is added digitally as you increase from the base ISO, on a non-dual ISO camera, this would just increase continuously as you increase the ISO. On a camera like the S5 II there is a second base ISO with a higher gain that drops the noise floor back to almost zero and then increases from there. Any ISO setting besides the two "native" ISO's is a digital manipulation similar to just increasing the exposure setting in post.

The benefit of being able to choose your high or low gain is control. This is especially important as you are recording with a baked in image profile and grain. You can use this control to manipulate an exchange of dynamic range vs noise. For instance, say you need to record at much higher ISO than the lower base iso because of limited light (for our purposes let's assume V-Log), correct exposure is 2500 ISO. On a single ISO sensor you would be pushing that signal pretty hard resulting in a lot of noise and a large loss in dynamic range, but on the S5 II you have a second ISO at 4000 which almost resets your noise and dynamic range (note: the dynamic range and noise are still worse at the second iso just less than they normally would be.) You might be saying well if I use ISO 4000 then my image is overexposed, but this is where a really nice function of Dual ISO comes in; if you set your ISO to high but choose a lower than native ISO like 2500 you get less grain at the cost of slightly reduced dynamic range. You can get a really clean image by using the high gain sensor but rating at a lower ISO, this would be like lowering the exposure in post which would effectively hide the grain in the image. Alternatively if you had a very dynamic scene and wanted to retain that range you could just ND one stop and though you have a little more grain you'd have some more range in post. This is why it's nice to be able to choose which ISO (high/low) you're using, it's just another way to control your image. Some cinematographers have been known to use the higher ISO even in daylight and ND back down because they like the grain and light control but want to keep dynamic range for an organic feel. Auto setting will probably be fine for the majority of use cases just FYI but the option to control it is there.

I think calling it Dual ISO is kind of confusing as the ISO is actually variable and not even the relelavent term but it's pretty commonplace now. On the Varicam pressing the ISO button lets you choose the native ISO you want which is always the same since there is only one color profile and the choose independently which ISO you want to shoot at which I think is a lot more user friendly".



In the site "cined.com" they test the rolling shutter, dynamic range and latitude of the cine and "decent enough" video cameras. Here is the test of the S5ii:

www.cined.com

Panasonic LUMIX S5 II Lab Test - Rolling Shutter, Dynamic Range and Latitude | CineD

Panasonic LUMIX S5 II Lab Test - testing rolling shutter, dynamic range and exposure latitude for 4K and 5.9K V-Log.
www.cined.com www.cined.com
 
Nomad Nate said:
Guessing they're in very rare supply seeing as how it's an HSM
Click to expand...

The link does not work, but I guess you mean the old 28/1.4 HSM Art.

That is an older lens, originall, designed for DSLRs, with an LMount. It is huge an weights 865g.

See our LMount lens overview:

L-Mount Lenses - L-MOUNT-Forum.com

L-MOUNT User Forum, L-Mount forum, L-Mount Forums, L-Mount cameras, Leica, Panasonic fullframe, Sigma fullframe, Sigma Foveon, Lumix, Lumix S1R, Lumix S1, Leica SL, Sigma ART
l-mount-forum.com

Sigma never redesigned that lens for a DG DN version. Also F1.4 makes a fullframe wideangle too big. F2.0 or F2.8 would be a better choice and price/image quality and size ratio for most users.
 
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