L-MOUNT Forum

Register a free account now!

If you are registered, you get access to the members only section, can participate in the buy & sell second hand forum and last but not least you can reserve your preferred username before someone else takes it.

News New Panasonic S 100mm 2.8 Macro Lens

I am afraid this is a VIDEO macro lens (panasonic.com):

"The LUMIX S 100mm F2.8 MACRO lens has the same size, filter size and handling as the LUMIX S F1.8 prime lens series. The focus is narrow, allowing for easy lens changes when shooting video with a gimbal or drone. The image reproduction is also identical and allows for easy post-processing".


"Ideal for video recordings: The lens offers fast, accurate autofocus and smooth aperture transitions, which is crucial for content creators today. This means you can create impressive 4K videos and images without your subject feeling disturbed".


Here one example of macro-video:


 
I am afraid this is a VIDEO macro lens (panasonic.com):
...
And what are the drawbacks for photography? The sharpness is quite good, even for a macro, according to divert reviews (like that of Richard Wong).
The magnification is standard for a prim macro. Same as the Sigma.
You have to pay a premium for light weight and small size.
Maybe I missed something?
 
It is very odd to me that Panasonic has trumpeted the size of the 100mm macro as the main feature. Since anyone doing macro photography is using a tripod and controlling focus very precisely. Weight doesn't matter. Maintaining identical size to the other lenses doesn't matter. Or do people really want to use a macro lens on a gimbal? ;-)

It seems Panasonic do have a more wide usage within their mind by introducing this macro lens.
As a more “general” purpose lens, it fits nicely within the line of their other “video” suited lenses.
(Specially tuned for younger people, grown up in today fast internet and social media possibilities).
In meanwhile other contributions within this subject, showing a nice example ( @xaviergut ).

A very logic step made by Panasonic IMO, and definitely not choosing an approach to compete with Sigma,
as another partner within the L-mount alliance. Every brand do have its own market share, likers / dislikers of the offered gear.

Neither does focus breathing matter, because the tiny increments of focal plane adjustments needed for stacking will never demonstrate this attribute to any degree. I don't recall a single review of a macro lens ever mentioning focus breathing... though perhaps now in the video era this thinking has contaminated applications where it simply doesn't matter.

At least for video shooters, less focus breathing do have advantages.
(E.g. a shot from a close-up “eye” from a human being in front, tracking to another person farther away afterwards).

If focus breathing have yes or no negative effect to focus stacking is not that easy answered.

To go deeper into focus stacking.
As a start, I found a test by Gordon Laing at YouTube showing focus stacking by taking 80 shots of a coin at about 45 degrees angle,
set by the AF options of the camera and some extra settings within the menu.
Panasonic 100mm macro < YouTube example > (at the starting point of the stacking stage). Done in a rather easy way.

Looking to the back screen of the camera “some” focus breathing is noticed during the process.
But what shall be the result, if characteristics of a lens show much more focus breathing?
Focus stacking software can correct / resize images during process by certain limits (depending which software is used).

But I think as a basic if you start by a lens that have no or at least less focus breathing.
The end result shall be done more easily, with less artifacts or faulty results during the process.

Please note that the required focusing range of the front and rear focus points
increases by a certain exponential value as you photograph closer. Specially within the macro range.

Manual lenses:
Everyone (or at least most of us) knows the distance scales of old-fashioned manual lenses.
A short focus rotation for longer distances. Steps in meters and shortly afterwards “infinite”.
At the other end. Long focus rotation at short distances. Values divided into “centimetres”.

As an example. (Having this lens myself from my early “eighties” Nikon time).

Micro-Nikkor_3.jpg

For example, the focus rotation of this lens for two consecutive “centimetre values” at the short end. (1:2).
(Nikon distant scale just the other way round).
  • 0.46 - 0.41 meter (46 - 41 cm) = 5 cm range, about a 60 degrees rotation of the focus ring.
  • is the same as: ∞ - 1.25 meter, about a 60 degrees rotation of the focus ring at the other end.
So eventually shown substantial focus breathing. At short distances relatively can have a big impact.

Floating lens elements:
To be noted: This old fashioned Nikon lens already do use “floating lens elements” already.
Not only for bettering optical performance at longer distances versus close distances.
But it has “some” positive impact, by a bit less focus breathing (but still a noticeable amount),
in comparison to a bit shorter focal length of a Voigtländer Apo Lanthar 90mm / F3.5
with no floating lens elements at all. This lens, by focusing the complete lens construction is moving.
(And less closest focus distance, however still a short close focus range for such a lens).

“Natural” shown focus breathing....
As a function by optical physics, every lens construction having “fixed” lens elements, (no floating lens elements)
do show focus breathing when focusing to more close distances. (Less using short focal length, more using longer focal length).

By having a longer distance, lens to camera sensor, the “growing” bigger image area (image circle),
the part that is hitting the sensor is “cropped”, by the “enlarged” (bigger “breathed out") image.

Schematically shown in the image below.
Macro_fc-br_final.png
  • Blue lines: field of view at a given fixed focal length hitting the sensor (focus far away - )
  • Red lines: the same corresponding angle of view, (the lens do have the same focal length,
    but by extension for closer distance focusing, a growing image, and cropped part hitting the sensor.
  • Green lines: To overcome the focus breathing, a correction should be made. (No crop of the image).

Today lens designs:
By using floating elements, different lens groups as for “fast” auto focusing,
and even a combination to correct the natural focus breathing of lenses.
All done ”internally” - without changing the outside dimensions of a lens.
Exceptional, that all of this can be done, within a tiny lightweight package.

But all comes with some trade offs, as all lens designs are compromises in some part or the other.
So you have to look to all characteristics. Solutions by one brand can be different than others.
Reaction comes within another part later.

As for focus stacking - not mentioned as for solutions done by a “fixed” set focus of a lens, so no focus breathing at all.
But by moving the complete “camera & lens combination” by a motorised driven “mono-rail”,
some changing of the image by a small amount (??) of "perspective breathing". ;)
-
 
Last edited:
Hmm, I do lots of video. But I pre-ordered the 100mm F2.8 macro for photography. Maybe I'll think more about video with this lens.
 
But all comes with some trade offs, as all lens designs are compromises in some part or the other.
So you have to look to all characteristics. Solutions by one brand can be different than others.
Reaction comes within another part later.

Next part ;)
Already noticed by MTF differences Lumix 100mm macro lens versus Sigma 105mm macro lens < by this message >.
The Sigma lens do have the advantage as for optics.

Thankfully by @robin0112358 reporting a special web site:

AFAIK, the only reviewer to test "sharpness" (whatever they mean by that) is Digital Camera World. The results are rather poor.
Could be that they have a bad sample. Or could be that this is the result of compromises in the design process...

You can make a comparison by same lens testing methods used for Lumix lens and Sigma lens.

Showing recent Digital Camera World “Imatest” - Lumix S 100mm f/2.8 Macro: Lab Results do show this:

Pan-Lumix100-macro_(900px).png


Over two years back Digital Camera World “Imatest” - Sigma 105mm f/2.8 DG DN Macro Art: Lab Results Results do show this:

Pan-Sigma105-macro_(900px).png


The quality of the Sigma lens undoubtedly is the best choice as it comes to "optical" characteristics.
And in line what an independent user photographing “micro chip wafers” experience found out for the Sigma lens as well.

Cards are shuffled again.
 

Attachments

  • Pan-Lumix100-macro_(900px).png
    EXIF
    Pan-Lumix100-macro_(900px).png
    25.4 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:
Here another macro lens option available for L-Mount. Extreme macro photography on a budget!

Screenshot-2024-01-19-at-06.32.15.png

 
Nice playing tool. :cool:
But moreover in a "micro" range, not comparable to Lumix and other comparable ~100mm macro lenses.

Your example, is same lens / build as Laowa 25mm f/2.8 Ultra Macro 2.5-5X

If you are searching for cheap options to have a magnifying range of 2-5x there are other options as well.
Check in your "photographers" closet, maybe you find some older manual lenses, that can be stacked.
Using a reverse ring, to put these lenses together.

As for inspiration e.g.:


-
 
Yes, I brought up that Digital Camera World article but I want to stress two things.

1. They could very well have got a bad sample of the Lumix macro. Because the results are so bad.

2. They do not define what they mean by "sharpness" so their method is immediately cast into doubt.

Hence I reserve judgement. I also ignore all the hype-mongers on YouTube. Apparently every lens is wonderful and essential. (But of course that's how they make money.)

I wish to read MTF graphs with spatial frequency curves at 10, 20, and 40 lp/mm. Then obscurity of language is put aside and one can make proper evaluation of objective data. Panasonic themselves publish MTF at 10 and 30 for both sagittal and meridional. From the first we can get an idea of (macro) contrast and from the second something like sharpness. But I would prefer 40 lp/mm. (Yes, spoiled by Zeiss again!) Because the 30 curve will look "too good" by comparison to a measure of finer detail.

(I am tipping here into a different subject, so perhaps should open a new topic.)

In the case of a macro lens the flatness of the field at close focal distances is also paramount. Funny how the YouTube reviewers don't mention this quality!
 
Yes, I brought up that Digital Camera World article but I want to stress two things.

1. They could very well have got a bad sample of the Lumix macro. Because the results are so bad.

2. They do not define what they mean by "sharpness" so their method is immediately cast into doubt.

1. Indeed it could be a bad example.
(In past when I want to buy a Panasonic 50mm/1.8 lens. Taking just some pictures in the camera shop and examining the images,
it shows already strange / bad flaws. That I did not buy the lens, and warned the shop employees, that this copy has to be returned to Panasonic).

If editorial employees / photographers of a prominent camera website met comparable problems, and don't trust the results.
At least they have to discuss this by Panasonic itself, and ask for another copy of the lens. Not publishing results if you have doubt.
Otherwise you can not take the editorial information of that website serious.

2. Lenses are tested by the "Imatest" specifications / workflow.
Definitions can be found at the Imatest website: https://www.imatest.com/docs/

A lot information. And results shall be different in comparison to other tests. But that in itself does not have to be a problem.
If you keep this test workflow always the same, by the same specifications and methods.
By that you can compare one lens against other lenses.
-
 
Did they mention the camera body, they tested the lenses on? If they tested the Panasonic on a S5II or another 24 Mpix body and the Sigma on a Sony A7IV, than that fact alone would explain a part of the different result.

The results look much worse than the Sigma and I wouldn't expect such a high difference in resolution after watching initial reviews, like that one from @Richard Wong.
 
The Panasonic does look terrible compared to the Sigma going just by those graphs, I'd agree something's wrong somewhere.

BTW of the three copies of the 50/1.8 I've tried two were excellent and one was terrible.
 
I have now 70-300mm but it has not much use because it is heavy. I don't do much macro but I'm thinking of selling the big zoom and buying the new 100mm. So more like a small general purpose tele. The bag with 20-60mm and 50mm is very light even with the 100mm. I have noticed that the weight seems to be a big issue especially when I earlier used more G9. Grazy idea or not?
 
I have now 70-300mm but it has not much use because it is heavy. I don't do much macro but I'm thinking of selling the big zoom and buying the new 100mm. So more like a small general purpose tele. The bag with 20-60mm and 50mm is very light even with the 100mm. I have noticed that the weight seems to be a big issue especially when I earlier used more G9. Grazy idea or not?
I have the 70-300mm, and have not used it much. In my view it is not a very good macro. I get better closeups with the 24-105. And the 100mm macro should do even better. But I will keep the 70-300 for a while. I don't like the weight but for 300mm it is not bad.
 
But keep in mind. The review done by Richard as well also Gordon Liang, both the 24 Megapixel Lumix S5 II is used.
Comparing by using the more high 47 Megapixel S1R camera (and upcoming more new high MP camera models ??).
Differences will be noticed sooner. (A more high demanding of lens quality is needed by rising Megapixels).
 
But keep in mind. The review done by Richard as well also Gordon Liang, both the 24 Megapixel Lumix S5 II is used.
Comparing by using the more high 47 Megapixel S1R camera (and upcoming more new high MP camera models ??).
Differences will be noticed sooner. (A more high demanding of lens quality is needed by rising Megapixels).

Yes, also the S5IIX was probably used in the test of digital camera world. I haven't found out what Sony body they have used for the Sigma. But the results of the Panasonic macro are still much worth, that I would expect from multiple reviews out there. Either the reviewers don't know what they are doing or digital camera world had some errors in it's testing. For example they only tested one bad copy and didn't mind to test another one.
 
Either the reviewers don't know what they are doing or digital camera world had some errors in it's testing.
For example they only tested one bad copy and didn't mind to test another one.
I already gave my thoughts in a message more early < HERE > within part 1. Specially the second paragraph of what I wrote.

If editorial employees / photographers of a prominent camera website met comparable problems, and don't trust the results.
At least they have to discuss this by Panasonic itself, and ask for another copy of the lens. Not publishing results if you have doubt.
Otherwise you can not take the editorial information of that website serious.


Although I understand that in this competitive world pressure for quickly publishing of information is very high.
It seems all those testing resources are more picky to get the highest numbers of "hits" for visited web pages.
Than in giving trustfully information.

The real qualities of the lens will probably be in the margins somewhere in the middle of all those published sources.
Hope people have sufficient insight to filter out the right information.
 
I have the 70-300mm, and have not used it much. In my view it is not a very good macro. I get better closeups with the 24-105. And the 100mm macro should do even better. But I will keep the 70-300 for a while. I don't like the weight but for 300mm it is not bad.
I also have G9 with Panasonic Leica DG Vario-Elmar 100-400mm F4.0-6.3. This is a very good tele as it is equivalent to 200-800. I noticed that S 70-300 is nice but not enough for birds and stuff. For me it works better as a street tele. For that it is too heavy to carry around and maybe too much so I am thinking the 100mm would be better. With the same lens you also get macro possibilities which is nice.

I try to keep the camera bag light as it is very easy to buy a lot of lenses. Then you notice that you are using only a small part of the selection ;-).
 
I got my pre-order in to B&H.
There is activity at B&H. They charged my credit card, and the order is shown as "in progress" on their website. I expect I should see this 100mm lens in a few days.

I'm kind of anxious to get it. First, how sharp is it, what with the posted internet reports being so mixed. And how does it perform as a macro lens? I have never been much of a macro photographer, but I like the idea of a dual purpose lens that can do macro, but is also a normal short telephoto lens. I can see that as very useful, for example shooting both a field of wild flowers and then close ups of individual blossoms. Finally, I don't have any of the other Panasonic prime lenses and this is a chance to get a good feel for what they are like.
 
Back
Top