Linux users?

[Markuswelder]

Any Linux users here? If there are, any particular raw converter/s image editing software that you really like, is easy to learn/use, and does a good job? Reason being, Microsoft has p!$$ed me off big time by dropping support for Windows 10. Yeah I know you can pay for updates for another year, but that's going to come to an end as well, so only delaying the inevitable. Reason I'm p!$$ed is because one of my perfectly good, quite highly specced (in the grand scheme of things) NUC's is not compatible with W11. It just seems totally wasteful to me to throw away an i7 CPU powered computer, with 16 GB of RAM and a TB of SSD HD, just because Bill Gates says so, just to make more millions. Or billions. It's obscene to be honest.
Anyway, I've dabbled with various Linux distros over the years, out of curiosity I've tried running live sessions booting off a USB stick of ChromeOS Flex, another ChromeOS based distro that I can't think of offhand at the minute, & last night Linux Mint. Mint was a revelation. So I installed it. Dual boot. So far everything has pretty much just worked. A little bit of fiddling in the settings for my Keyboard Trackpad, but nothing major. Really quite impressed with it to be honest. It sees my NAS, can happily transfer files back & forwards no problems, WiFi printer works like a charm, portable USB C monitor same same, rather happy.
I tried loading up my much loved Silkypix developer studio Pro in Wine, but that doesn't want to play the game. So I fired up the software manager, installed Rawtherappe & Darktable. Jesus. People complain about the learning curve of Silkypix, that's got nothing on what appears to be deliberate efforts to make things as obtuse as obtuse could possibly be, in those two programs. I'm making progress, slowly, but wondering if there's anything out there the Linux users love. And find intuitive. Or even some tutorials that go through the process of doing a basic edit on a raw file. You know, lift the shadows, pull back the highlights, choose from a couple of different picture/colour styles, that sort of thing. I don't actually mind the learning curve, quite enjoy it to be honest, but not keen on spending months on something that's not really that good at the end of it all.
Right at this moment I'm not looking at replacing my current workflow, as my other NUC came with W11 Pro installed on it, no issues there, it's got plenty of HP with a Ryzen 7 8 core CPU, 32 GB of RAM etc, I just don't want to throw out my Sofa/travel computer just to line Bill's pockets further. Yeah, I could run W10 inside Virtualbox just for Silkypix purposes, but that seems like a bit of overkill and hardware intensive way to go about it.
So let me hear your thoughts/experiences

 

[pdk42]

It’s a very long time since Bill Gates had any involvement with operational decisions at Microsoft!

Also, I’m pretty sure there are some easy workarounds to the W11 install block on older PCs, so there are options to keep Windows if you want to. Google search will be your friend!

But if you stick with Linux, I think the best option is to get to grips with one of the two raw processors you have already tried. It's a while since I played, but I think Darktable is probably the easiest to use and it’s pretty functional these days. The decision to use Mint is sound. I’ve always found it to be a very well put together distro.

 

[Babylonia]

I am not a Linux user. (Only tested it very long time ago for some projects).
As for RAW converters, there is not much available. You have already installed RawTherapee & Darktable.

As for image editing software, the best option might be "GIMP" - Free and open source software.
A package that started already over 25 years ago. So it has a long history already.
Like a kind of "freeware Photoshop".

GIMP

GIMP - The GNU Image Manipulation Program: The Free and Open Source Image Editor

www.gimp.org

GIMP - About GIMP

Introduction¶ GIMP is an acronym for GNU Image Manipulation Program. It is a freely distributed program for such tasks as photo retouching, image composition and image authoring. The software are developed as Community, Free Software by the following GIMP authors and contributors under the GNU...

www.gimp.org

-

 

[Markuswelder]

I am not a Linux user. (Only tested it very long time ago for some projects).
As for RAW converters, there is not much available. You have already installed RawTherapee & Darktable.

As for image editing software, the best option might be "GIMP" - Free and open source software.
A package that started already over 25 years ago. So it has a long history already.
Like a kind of "freeware Photoshop".

GIMP

GIMP - The GNU Image Manipulation Program: The Free and Open Source Image Editor

www.gimp.org

GIMP - About GIMP

Introduction¶ GIMP is an acronym for GNU Image Manipulation Program. It is a freely distributed program for such tasks as photo retouching, image composition and image authoring. The software are developed as Community, Free Software by the following GIMP authors and contributors under the GNU...

www.gimp.org

-

I've actually played around with Gimp before. Not really what I'm looking for, I'm way more Lightroom than Photoshop orientated. Plus, it doesn't do raw conversions, as far as I'm aware.
But thanks for the suggestion anyway. I might one day decide to give it another try, I've yet to try my Silkypix straight raw converter (it just converts RW2 to dng, tiff or jpeg from memory, so you can then edit the files in any program) in Wine as yet, that may be another option. I'll keep it in mind anyway

 

[Markuswelder]

It’s a very long time since Bill Gates had any involvement with operational decisions at Microsoft!

Also, I’m pretty sure there are some easy workarounds to the W11 install block on older PCs, so there are options to keep Windows if you want to. Google search will be your friend!

But if you stick with Linux, I think the best option is to get to grips with one of the two raw processors you have already tried. It's a while since I played, but I think Darktable is probably the easiest to use and it’s pretty functional these days. The decision to use Mint is sound. I’ve always found it to be a very well put together distro.

The main thing I'm looking for, is a secure OS. Mainly for travel purposes. As we wander around China for 2-3 months at a time occasionally, &I think that's the kind of situation where you want your OS to be pretty secure. I've had zero issues so far with a couple of versions of Windows, I've never used any anti-virus software, and at times I leave my system on overnight to let it sync photo folders on my NUC with my NAS back home. As a backup kind of thing more than anything else. Do a bit of internet banking as well, but try & keep that at a minimum. And I'm not too sure how hacking W11 would work in that situation. As it's a known thing/issue that users will try, and hackers will look closely at. I think. It might be a non-issue, I might not be understanding it fully as yet, I've not investigated too closely so far.

But yeah, I'm quite impressed with Mint so far. I've tried a couple of different flavors of Ubuntu over the years, if you've got the right Hardware that can also be a really good experience too. I tried building a Linux Home Theater PC years back, OMG, what a headache that turned out to be. Went way, way too far down the rabbit hole trying to get that one to work properly, stuff like TV tuners would work, then randomly stop, then work again, Remote controls that would work, then stop for no apparent reason, it just got all too hard for me, I gave up on it, and that was the last I played with Linux for a long long time This, so far, has been a really smooth experience, it probably helps that my NUC is Linux or Intel certified for Linux compatibility.

But you're right I think, I'll just keep persevering with Darktable and Rawtherapee. So far, the results that I have managed to get so far look pretty good compared to what I get out of Silkypix. Well, I think I still like the colour rendition better out of SP, and I haven't tried working with any high ISO files as yet, but it is early days after all Well, hours if we're completely honest. I'll keep searching the interwebz for tutorials on both, sooner or later I've got to come across something that I find informative

 

[RuleOfThirds]

You can just bypass the checks and install W11 anyway. Have it up and running on a few older cpu machines. Just download the W11 image. It is really not that hard. You don't have to use the upgrade application.

 

[pdk42]

The main thing I'm looking for, is a secure OS. Mainly for travel purposes. As we wander around China for 2-3 months at a time occasionally, &I think that's the kind of situation where you want your OS to be pretty secure. I've had zero issues so far with a couple of versions of Windows,

I think security wise you need to ask what risks you see as the most important. I seem to recall Mint once had their website hacked such that Mint downloads were pulled from a server that had malware-infested versions of the OS images. I think it was detected and fixed pretty quickly, but it points to the sort of issues that can happen.

Overall, I think Linux is generally considered more resilient to malware hacks, mainly by virtue of the sheer range of Windows APIs and frameworks that present a wider attack vector. But Linux certainly isn't immune either. Overall, it pays to educate yourself on the ways that hackers etc can penetrate your OS and to be aware and cautious.

I've never used any anti-virus software,

I don't either. I'm running a Mac now, but even in Windows days I didn't use them. Not only do they do potentially do odd things to your OS, but they themselves present an attack surface for malware; and since they wire themselves into the inner bowels of the OS, if they get successfully attacked then the malware can wreak havoc. I think a healthy caution and high levels of awareness are better defences that AV software.

 

[RuleOfThirds]

I don’t use anti-virus at home either. I mainly use an iMac and a MacBook Pro M1 13” on travels.

At home we do have a small Windows desktop too, core i3-8th generation 16GB. Not compatible according to Microsoft but running Windows 11 Pro just fine, and I keep it always up to date. At home I have also a small low power core i3 7th gen with 16GB running Open Media Vault. Actually it runs like 8 containerised server apps. Among them Adguard , and WireGuard.

AdGuard is a network-wide ad blocker which works through dns. So my router broadcasts via dhcp all tne settings and all clients get automatically the dns entry to adguard. Adguard filters all the requests and blocks the unsafe ones using safe lists. You can set the upstream dns servers yourself. And also choose which ad-block lists of sites you want to block on your home network. So 90%+ of the junk driveby links in ads and whatever are already blocked at the root.

WireGuard is a very safe and lightweight vpn servic. I have only one port open to the bad world, and that one goes to this vpn service which I keep up-to-date.

There is a very easy and cheap way to implement the above as well and that is pi-hole. You can run both pi-hole and WireGuard on one raspberry pi3+ together. pi-hole does more or less the same as AdGuard. AdGuard is easier containerized and has more features. But is not necessarily “better“.

 

[Markuswelder]

I think security wise you need to ask what risks you see as the most important. I seem to recall Mint once had their website hacked such that Mint downloads were pulled from a server that had malware-infested versions of the OS images. I think it was detected and fixed pretty quickly, but it points to the sort of issues that can happen.

Yeah, I noticed that they strongly advise you now to do an integrity and authenticity check on the downloaded ISO before creating a bootable installer installation medium. Which I did, and came back all clear.

I don't either. I'm running a Mac now, but even in Windows days I didn't use them. Not only do they do potentially do odd things to your OS, but they themselves present an attack surface for malware; and since they wire themselves into the inner bowels of the OS, if they get successfully attacked then the malware can wreak havoc. I think a healthy caution and high levels of awareness are better defences that AV software.

I've wondered about that. The biggest thing I've found, is don't use pirated software. It might cost you a bit at the start to buy genuine software, but it will save you tonnes of heartache, headaches and hassles in the long run.
And be sensible about what sites you visit. You're just asking for trouble if you go surfing around dodgey porn sites etc, downloading this that and whatever. That's just dumb. Really really dumb. All I've ever done is keep Windows up to date, and let what used to be called Defender? do its thing. Can't think off hand what it's called now. If you download any files, download from a trusted source, then simply right click on them, and select "scan with Microsoft Defender" before opening or installing them. Never had an issue. It's not difficult.

 

[pdk42]

And be sensible about what sites you visit. You're just asking for trouble if you go surfing around dodgey porn sites etc, downloading this that and whatever. That's just dumb. Really really dumb. All I've ever done is keep Windows up to date, and let what used to be called Defender? do its thing. Can't think off hand what it's called now. If you download any files, download from a trusted source, then simply right click on them, and select "scan with Microsoft Defender" before opening or installing them. Never had an issue. It's not difficult.

Yes, that's a really good point, especially the idea to scan downloaded files for malware signatures. It's way less intrusive than a full AV package, but with an up-to-date signature DB, it will find a lot of potential malware for very little effort on the user.

 

[CH_CH]

Any Linux users here? If there are, any particular raw converter/s image editing software that you really like, is easy to learn/use, and does a good job? Reason being, Microsoft has p!$$ed me off big time by dropping support for Windows 10. Yeah I know you can pay for updates for another year, but that's going to come to an end as well, so only delaying the inevitable. Reason I'm p!$$ed is because one of my perfectly good, quite highly specced (in the grand scheme of things) NUC's is not compatible with W11. It just seems totally wasteful to me to throw away an i7 CPU powered computer, with 16 GB of RAM and a TB of SSD HD, just because Bill Gates says so, just to make more millions. Or billions. It's obscene to be honest.
Anyway, I've dabbled with various Linux distros over the years, out of curiosity I've tried running live sessions booting off a USB stick of ChromeOS Flex, another ChromeOS based distro that I can't think of offhand at the minute, & last night Linux Mint. Mint was a revelation. So I installed it. Dual boot. So far everything has pretty much just worked. A little bit of fiddling in the settings for my Keyboard Trackpad, but nothing major. Really quite impressed with it to be honest. It sees my NAS, can happily transfer files back & forwards no problems, WiFi printer works like a charm, portable USB C monitor same same, rather happy.
I tried loading up my much loved Silkypix developer studio Pro in Wine, but that doesn't want to play the game. So I fired up the software manager, installed Rawtherappe & Darktable. Jesus. People complain about the learning curve of Silkypix, that's got nothing on what appears to be deliberate efforts to make things as obtuse as obtuse could possibly be, in those two programs. I'm making progress, slowly, but wondering if there's anything out there the Linux users love. And find intuitive. Or even some tutorials that go through the process of doing a basic edit on a raw file. You know, lift the shadows, pull back the highlights, choose from a couple of different picture/colour styles, that sort of thing. I don't actually mind the learning curve, quite enjoy it to be honest, but not keen on spending months on something that's not really that good at the end of it all.
Right at this moment I'm not looking at replacing my current workflow, as my other NUC came with W11 Pro installed on it, no issues there, it's got plenty of HP with a Ryzen 7 8 core CPU, 32 GB of RAM etc, I just don't want to throw out my Sofa/travel computer just to line Bill's pockets further. Yeah, I could run W10 inside Virtualbox just for Silkypix purposes, but that seems like a bit of overkill and hardware intensive way to go about it.
So let me hear your thoughts/experiences

I have a machine running linux (ubuntu), been doing linux since 2009.
Both darktable and rawtherapee are a bit clumsy. I used mostly Digikam.
However, I find these days that LRC does a better job, so photos I do on a mac mini M1 now.
I really think the photo space in linux is waiting for something like what Davinci (which runs natively on linux) has done for video.
In short, give Digikam a try.

 

[PJD]

Oh, cool: A topic I can relate to!

For 100% of my computer "work" (I'm mostly retired) I use a >4 year old MacBook Pro 13" with the first-generation Apple Silicon M1 CPU and 16GB RAM. I'm very happy with it, but I won't be surprised if I feel the need to replace it with a new Mac in a few years. Since 1984 I've bought a new Mac about every 5-10 years. At various points I've also concurrently owned Windows PCs.

In 2015 I built a Windows PC with an Intel i7-5820K 6-core CPU, 32GB RAM, NVIDIA 980-Ti 6GB GPU, 240GB SSD and 3TB HDD so I could run Davinci Resolve Studio. The Mac I owned at the time didn't have enough horsepower to run DRS, and building a PC with adequate capability to run DRS was about half the cost of a Mac with similar capability. Up until last week the PC was running Windows 10 Pro.

After I got the M1 MacBook Pro in 2021, I no longer used my Windows PC for anything. It was an emergency "backup" in case something went wrong with my MBP.

My PC motherboard doesn't include the hardware required to run Windows 11 (and there isn't a single Win11 feature I care about), and I've never been a fan of Microsoft, so last week I decided, what the heck, I'll wipe the PC clean, install a version of Linux, and see how Davinci Resolve Studio 20.0.1 runs on it.

Coincidentally there was a post by a Blackmagic technician on their support forum which includes a link to their Linux installer (Rocky Linux 8.6). I used the information in that post, together with very helpful info in a video on Youtube by Christopher Barnatt to figure out how complete the installation.

CAUTION: Following the above instructions wipes-out everything on your computer and replaces it with Rocky Linux 8.6 and Davinci Resolve.

It's early days, but so far I'm impressed. I learned a lot. The most important thing I learned is that the PC hardware I own is just barely adequate to edit 4K ProRes 422 & HQ, and 4K h264 & h265 in DRS 20.0.1 under Rocky Linux (I've updated Rocky to v 8.10). I haven't had time to edit anything complex, and I don't use DRS' Fusion, so YMMV.

However, if I ever felt the need to upgrade my PC hardware, it seems very likely a somewhat higher-spec CPU and more modern GPU with 8-12 GB of VRAM could handle most anything DRS could throw at it.

 

[PJD]

Oh, cool: A topic I can relate to!

For 100% of my computer "work" (I'm mostly retired) I use a >4 year old MacBook Pro 13" with the first-generation Apple Silicon M1 CPU and 16GB RAM. I'm very happy with it, but I won't be surprised if I feel the need to replace it with a new Mac in a few years. Since 1984 I've bought a new Mac about every 5-10 years. At various points I've also concurrently owned Windows PCs.

In 2015 I built a Windows PC with an Intel i7-5820K 6-core CPU, 32GB RAM, NVIDIA 980-Ti 6GB GPU, 240GB SSD and 3TB HDD so I could run Davinci Resolve Studio. The Mac I owned at the time didn't have enough horsepower to run DRS, and building a PC with adequate capability to run DRS was about half the cost of a Mac with similar capability. Up until last week the PC was running Windows 10 Pro.

After I got the M1 MacBook Pro in 2021, I no longer used my Windows PC for anything. It was an emergency "backup" in case something went wrong with my MBP.

My PC motherboard doesn't include the hardware required to run Windows 11 (and there isn't a single Win11 feature I care about), and I've never been a fan of Microsoft, so last week I decided, what the heck, I'll wipe the PC clean, install a version of Linux, and see how Davinci Resolve Studio 20.0.1 runs on it.

Coincidentally there was a post by a Blackmagic technician on their support forum which includes a link to their Linux installer (Rocky Linux 8.6). I used the information in that post, together with very helpful info in a video on Youtube by Christopher Barnatt to figure out how complete the installation.

CAUTION: Following the above instructions wipes-out everything on your computer and replaces it with Rocky Linux 8.6 and Davinci Resolve.

It's early days, but so far I'm impressed. I learned a lot. The most important thing I learned is that the PC hardware I own is just barely adequate to edit 4K ProRes 422 & HQ, and 4K h264 & h265 in DRS 20.0.1 under Rocky Linux (I've updated Rocky to v 8.10). I haven't had time to edit anything complex, and I don't use DRS' Fusion, so YMMV.

However, if I ever felt the need to upgrade my PC hardware, it seems very likely a somewhat higher-spec CPU and more modern GPU with 8-12 GB of VRAM could handle most anything DRS could throw at it.

Just to add, a few other things I learned:

- Before I started the Linux installation, I needed to make a USB flash drive with the Rocky Linux "ISO" file on it. This USB flash drive is required to _initially_ boot the PC using Linux instead of Windows, and then do the install. I didn't know how to use a Mac to properly prepare a flash drive with an ISO on it. I found free software online called "balena Etcher" for my M1 Mac that performs this task. It runs slowly, but it worked. Next, my PC motherboard responded at startup to a press of the F12 to enable it to select a USB flash drive as the boot disk. After that, I followed the on-screen instructions, and Blackmagic's & Christopher Barnett's instructions.

- After Rocky Linux 8.6 (or 8.10) was installed, I realized it doesn't support exFAT formatted drives by default. I use multi-terabyte HDDs (in external USB enclosures & bare disks in cradle/docks) to backup and transfer large video files between my Mac and PC. In the video by Christopher Barnatt, he provides a solution. Entering the following in the Linux terminal application adds exFAT support (you only need to do this once):

sudo dnf install rpmfusion-free-release.noarch
sudo dnf install fuse-exfat

After that, the Rocky Linux desktop GUI allows you to use the external exFAT drives in a manner very similar to Mac & Windows. CAUTION: On all OS (Mac, Win, Linux) always use the OS software's "eject" feature (or power-off the computer or camera) to unmount an exFAT drive before physically unplugging its USB, etc cable. Unplugging without first ejecting or powering-off can cause data corruption. On a related note: Unfortunately, Paragon Software's "NTSF for Linux" isn't currently available for Rocky Linux; if it was, this would provide support for NTSF and HFS+ formatted drives. Bummer.)

(There are also instructions elsewhere online explaining how to transfer large files via an Ethernet cable directly connected between a Mac and a Linux PC, but I haven't tried this yet.)

Anyway, just a few tips from a complete Linux newbie who doesn't rely on it for anything important (yet).

 

[Markuswelder]

I don’t use anti-virus at home either. I mainly use an iMac and a MacBook Pro M1 13” on travels.

At home we do have a small Windows desktop too, core i3-8th generation 16GB. Not compatible according to Microsoft but running Windows 11 Pro just fine, and I keep it always up to date. At home I have also a small low power core i3 7th gen with 16GB running Open Media Vault. Actually it runs like 8 containerised server apps. Among them Adguard , and WireGuard.

I've watched a fair few videos now, and read a bit on running W11 on unsupported hardware, and from what I can gather, you're not getting the proper security updates for your specific hardware.
So what I think I'm going to do, is continue dual booting, and only run W10 offline, and only for running Silkypix. I've been running Mint only for a day or two now, and not run into any issues. Other than the step learning curve for Dark table Silkypix will run perfectly fine and happily off line, pretty much everything else now days is browser based. That I play with anyway. So Linux will do that just fine. Even the bit of 3D CAD I play around with at home.
Oddly enough, I can export directly to my NAS from Rawtherapee, but for some reason Darktable doesn't see it. One extra step, not the end of the world, it's only my couch/travel computer after all Perhaps further investigation will sort something out.

 

[RuleOfThirds]

So if you are happy to do so… by all means go for it. I use rawtherapee on MacOS for converting photographs of negatives into positive.

I must say that the non-supported machines I run do meet the baseline security requirements (UEFI, secure boot, TPM) it is perfectly fine from a practical standpoint to have such machines running w11. They get all the security updates, and don’t need any “hack” to install w11.

 

[Markuswelder]

So if you are happy to do so… by all means go for it. I use rawtherapee on MacOS for converting photographs of negatives into positive.

I must say that the non-supported machines I run do meet the baseline security requirements (UEFI, secure boot, TPM) it is perfectly fine from a practical standpoint to have such machines running w11. They get all the security updates, and don’t need any “hack” to install w11.

As far as I'm aware, to get proper security updates etc, your computer needs TPM 2 for W11. I think. And that's the sticking point for me. As apparently it's one of the main building blocks of the security setup. That's what I'm gathering anyway.
But yeah, if I get really frustrated with my progress in Darktable or Rawtherapee, I can always boot up W10 offline, (I'm dual booting) and play around in there with some photos. Linux can see the Windows drives, so no big headache trying to shuffle files around between OS's.

 

[RuleOfThirds]

Yes, one older laptop my son uses now is not on the compatibility list with a q7700 i7 cpu, but has tpm 2.0, the same for the 8th generation core i3, also not on the list but has tpm 2.0. Maybe that is why it is working without any problem (for us) although not on the list.

 

[Markuswelder]

Well I'm slowly, slowly getting a bit more comfortable with Darkroom. It's not at all intuitive, but if you forget pretty much everything you've learnt from other raw processing software, it starts to get a little bit easier to use. It looks like it's a very very powerful piece of software, the learning curve is steep. There's no way around that. I can actually edit a raw file now, not looking at the camera generated jpeg, or files that I've converted/edited in Silkypix previously, and I'm really happy with the comparison results.
Still got a lot of learning to do with the parametric masking, selective colour editing and that sort of thing, watched a tonne of videos, I think it might be worth investing a lot more time in to get quicker and more comfortable processing photos. Maybe even as my default, full time editor. We shall see

 

[PJD]

As a way to start getting comfortable working in a Linux environment, earlier I edited the film-to-video I posted in another thread using Davinci Resolve Studio 20.0.1 on my old PC (now running Rocky Linux). To make things interesting, I did about 90% of the edit & color-correction in DRS in Linux on the PC, and then transferred the DRS project file (.drp) over to my Mac and finished the edit & did the final render there. Everything worked perfectly. At some point when I have time I'll play around with DRS' film restoration features (automatic dust & dirt removal effects, etc.), but as both my machines are old & relatively slow handling these CPU/GPU-intensive tasks, it'll take them a long time to complete. Initially I'll experiment using just a brief few seconds of film, trying various effects settings. TBD.

 

[PJD]

Maybe a Linux user here can help: I bought a USB WiFi adapter for use with the PC I recently converted from Windows 10 to Rocky Linux 8.10. The USB WiFi adapter came with a CD which contains drivers for Mac, Windows, and Linux -- including instructions for how to install the driver for Mac & Windows. But there are no instruction about how to install the driver for Linux. When I put the CD in the CD drive attached to the Linux machine, I can see the directories that contain the Linux driver (in a ZIP file). But I have no idea how to install the Linux driver from the CD (I've never installed anything from a CD under Linux before.) Newb-compatible assistance will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!