Light metering options for landscape photography

[ptr22]

Hi,

I have a question for the landscape photographers. How often do you change the light metering options from say multi to centre or spot? The reason I'm asking is that often I come home with fairly dark RAWs, despite it looking good on display. Of course, I can raise the shadows but I wonder if a different mode than my default multi might be better suited? The other day I did a test and, in that case, spot came back a lot brighter.

Thanks,
Peter

 

[Pete_W]

I've never changed the metering method on my S5. And my RAW images don't come out too dark. I'll be interested to see what others have to say as it's not something I've considered.

 

[ptr22]

Okay, thank you! Do you have it on the multi mode? I have that and the same settings on both cameras (saved in the camera settings file), both react the same, and I wonder if I accidentally changed something. It's not that they are always and then unusably dark but it seems like it's more going for protecting the highlights.

And I wonder, does the i.Dynamic Range setting have any effect on RAWs? Think I have it on the middle (normal?) setting.

Thanks!

 

[pdk42]

The key thing on a landscape shot is to avoid blown highlights in any area that is of interest (usually the sky/clouds). None of the camera's metering systems will do that for you. But there is a solution. Turn on the zebras and the live view will show over-exposed areas. It will be most accurate if you set the photo mode to be "normal" or even "flat". Of course, you'll be shooting raw so the photo mode will be irrelevant to the final result.

With zebras enabled, you can then adjust the exposure (either M mode or exp comp in A mode) until they disappear (or are present only in areas you don't care about - e.g. the sun!). In effect, you are becoming the light meter. This is not just a reasonable thing to do, it's essential. Remember that with a mirrorless camera, the sensor is the light meter and if the live view has zebras enabled, it means that you, as the photographer, can ensure that you are not over-exposing, which is the big problem in digital photography, and especially in landscapes.

I have my camera set up for landscapes in A mode with the front dial controlling the aperture and the rear dial controlling exposure comp. So, my technique is to look at the scene and spin the rear dial until the zebras are under control. I really don't care what the +/- shows - the camera's evaluation of the exposure for the scene is just its view (it's an algorithm), and my algorithm is better.

Once you have the image in LR (or your favourite PP tool), you might need to push the shadows up - but that's just a way of life for landscape photographers. If the shadows are too deep, then the solution is to shoot an EV bracket so you can stack later to a HDR (but light touch only please - nothing that makes the eyes bleed!).

 

[pdk42]

And I wonder, does the i.Dynamic Range setting have any effect on RAWs? Think I have it on the middle (normal?) setting.

Thanks!

As far as I know iDynamic has no effect on the raw.

 

[CharlesH]

I have my camera set up for landscapes in A mode with the front dial controlling the aperture and the rear dial controlling exposure comp. So, my technique is to look at the scene and spin the rear dial until the zebras are under control. I really don't care what the +/- shows - the camera's evaluation of the exposure for the scene is just its view (it's an algorithm), and my algorithm is better.

I like that. I always shoot Manual, and use zebras to set exposure. I never use the camera exposure meter. I'll try your method.

 

[Jayneboo]

Always manual with an eye on the histogram.

 

[Pete_W]

Okay, thank you! Do you have it on the multi mode?

Yes, always on multi-mode.

I have that and the same settings on both cameras (saved in the camera settings file), both react the same, and I wonder if I accidentally changed something. It's not that they are always and then unusably dark but it seems like it's more going for protecting the highlights.

The camera probably is trying to protect highlights and there is plenty of scope for shadow recovery in Panasonic S series cameras.

And I wonder, does the i.Dynamic Range setting have any effect on RAWs? Think I have it on the middle (normal?) setting.

My understanding is that iDynamic only affects JPEGs.

As others have mentioned, zebras might be worth a try. I've used them a few times but found them a bit intrusive when I've trying to frame an approaching train (my usual photographic subject).

 

[Richard Wong]

While iDynamic does not affect the RAW file, it does affect your preview AND Metering. I notice sometimes it could affect metering up to 1 stop,
From my previous testing, the hightlight/shadow adjustments don't seem to affect metering. but maybe someone can double check it.
But no matter what, If you shoot RAW, i would suggest turn OFF iDynamic, reset any photo adjustements so both your preview and metering would not be affected by any of those setting changes.

 

[Michael_too]

I primarily do video and occasionally photography and I think it is partly because of this that I just always set white balance and exposure manually, both when doing video and photography. In video using manual settings is important as you don't want your exposure settings to change as you point the camera in different directions or when some object moves through your frame. You also want your different shots in one location to have a consistent exposure. When a shadow has a certain darkness when viewed from one angle, it should have the same darkness when viewed from another.
I also find that setting it manually is just less work than fighting the auto-exposure using exposure compensation. pdk42's method using zebras works perfectly. You might want to (also) use the histogram when the light is quite flat. Most of the time I forget the camera has an exposure meter because i'm used to using video cameras which never have an exposure meter. I think it's just there to make the transition from the selenium cell camera's to mirrorless a bit more seamless for the photographer.
Now if you still want to use auto exposure, you might want to try the highlight-weighted metering mode on the S5. It protects the highlights so it typically prevents blown-out skies and is also useful when shooting under stage lighting. I can't say I've used it much but it is what I would use for landscape if for some reason I couldn't use manual.

 

[pdk42]

.
Now if you still want to use auto exposure, you might want to try the highlight-weighted metering mode on the S5. It protects the highlights so it typically prevents blown-out skies and is also useful when shooting under stage lighting. I can't say I've used it much but it is what I would use for landscape if for some reason I couldn't use manual.

I didn’t know such a thing existed! I’ll give it a try.

 

[ptr22]

The key thing on a landscape shot is to avoid blown highlights in any area that is of interest (usually the sky/clouds). None of the camera's metering systems will do that for you. But there is a solution. Turn on the zebras and the live view will show over-exposed areas. It will be most accurate if you set the photo mode to be "normal" or even "flat". Of course, you'll be shooting raw so the photo mode will be irrelevant to the final result.

With zebras enabled, you can then adjust the exposure (either M mode or exp comp in A mode) until they disappear (or are present only in areas you don't care about - e.g. the sun!). In effect, you are becoming the light meter. This is not just a reasonable thing to do, it's essential. Remember that with a mirrorless camera, the sensor is the light meter and if the live view has zebras enabled, it means that you, as the photographer, can ensure that you are not over-exposing, which is the big problem in digital photography, and especially in landscapes.

I have my camera set up for landscapes in A mode with the front dial controlling the aperture and the rear dial controlling exposure comp. So, my technique is to look at the scene and spin the rear dial until the zebras are under control. I really don't care what the +/- shows - the camera's evaluation of the exposure for the scene is just its view (it's an algorithm), and my algorithm is better.

Once you have the image in LR (or your favourite PP tool), you might need to push the shadows up - but that's just a way of life for landscape photographers. If the shadows are too deep, then the solution is to shoot an EV bracket so you can stack later to a HDR (but light touch only please - nothing that makes the eyes bleed!).

Awesome, thanks a lot for all the replies and information!!

Turn on the zebras and the live view will show over-exposed areas.

I assume by live-view you mean the normal regular EVF/display view, not the specific modes that shows aperture and shutter speed live?

Do you set the zebras to 100/105%? Testing it with what I had (105%), even a bit of sun on the leaves seems to be 'blown out', according to the zebras?!

And did you mean with the photo modes 'normal' = Standard and 'flat' = Natural?

Thanks a lot for all the input!

 

[ptr22]

Always manual with an eye on the histogram.

Thank you! I do that when in doubt during the day but I believe it refers only to what the JPGs would get, not what the RAW can handle. Also, e.g. in night photography, it doesn't work. You'd have to have the aperture and shutter speed preview on and, with e.g. 60s exposures, an update takes 60s - not practical at all. :/

 

[ptr22]

Yes, always on multi-mode.

The camera probably is trying to protect highlights and there is plenty of scope for shadow recovery in Panasonic S series cameras.

My understanding is that iDynamic only affects JPEGs.

As others have mentioned, zebras might be worth a try. I've used them a few times but found them a bit intrusive when I've trying to frame an approaching train (my usual photographic subject).

Thank you! I find the zebras also a bit much but will try to get used to them when it's a sensitive scene.

 

[ptr22]

I primarily do video and occasionally photography and I think it is partly because of this that I just always set white balance and exposure manually, both when doing video and photography. In video using manual settings is important as you don't want your exposure settings to change as you point the camera in different directions or when some object moves through your frame. You also want your different shots in one location to have a consistent exposure. When a shadow has a certain darkness when viewed from one angle, it should have the same darkness when viewed from another.
I also find that setting it manually is just less work than fighting the auto-exposure using exposure compensation. pdk42's method using zebras works perfectly. You might want to (also) use the histogram when the light is quite flat. Most of the time I forget the camera has an exposure meter because i'm used to using video cameras which never have an exposure meter. I think it's just there to make the transition from the selenium cell camera's to mirrorless a bit more seamless for the photographer.
Now if you still want to use auto exposure, you might want to try the highlight-weighted metering mode on the S5. It protects the highlights so it typically prevents blown-out skies and is also useful when shooting under stage lighting. I can't say I've used it much but it is what I would use for landscape if for some reason I couldn't use manual.

Thank you! Weirdly enough, when I do video, I also go a more manual approach (often basic talking head videos) but when it's quick run and shoot photos...I don't have the time and patience. However, when I take the time and bring a tripod, I also do most things manually. Will check out the manual for the metering modes again.

Thank you!!

 

[ptr22]

While iDynamic does not affect the RAW file, it does affect your preview AND Metering. I notice sometimes it could affect metering up to 1 stop,
From my previous testing, the hightlight/shadow adjustments don't seem to affect metering. but maybe someone can double check it.
But no matter what, If you shoot RAW, i would suggest turn OFF iDynamic, reset any photo adjustements so both your preview and metering would not be affected by any of those setting changes.

Thank you! I turned if off today and will see how I get along.

 

[pdk42]

Awesome, thanks a lot for all the replies and information!!



I assume by live-view you mean the normal regular EVF/display view, not the specific modes that shows aperture and shutter speed live?

Do you set the zebras to 100/105%? Testing it with what I had (105%), even a bit of sun on the leaves seems to be 'blown out', according to the zebras?!

And did you mean with the photo modes 'normal' = Standard and 'flat' = Natural?

Thanks a lot for all the input!

I usually set zebras to 105%. You can still pull back the highlights in LR even when there is a little zebra showing.

And yes - a bit of sun on a bright surface will indeed be overexposed and the zebras will tell you that. You just need to dial down the exposure until anything that you care about is not showing the zebras. That often means a lot of shadow pushing, but it's the way it is - nature can throw 18+ stops of DR at us, but the sensor will capture 12 of them; if you're lucky.

 

[ptr22]

Thanks Paul, appreciate it! Quick follow-up on these: I assume by live-view you mean the normal regular EVF/display view, not the specific modes that shows aperture and shutter speed live? And Standard/Natural modes were the modes you were referring to?

Thanks again!

 

[CharlesH]

I usually set zebras to 105%. You can still pull back the highlights in LR even when there is a little zebra showing.

And yes - a bit of sun on a bright surface will indeed be overexposed and the zebras will tell you that. You just need to dial down the exposure until anything that you care about is not showing the zebras. That often means a lot of shadow pushing, but it's the way it is - nature can throw 18+ stops of DR at us, but the sensor will capture 12 of them; if you're lucky.

With video the Lumix cameras have the waveform monitor which is used to set exposure and maximize dynamic range, and I find this is better than zebras. I always wonder why they don't have a waveform monitor for photos as well. Instead there is just the histogram, which is not as effective in picking up spots of overexposure.

Sony cameras do not have a waveform monitor for video, and I always use zebras with Sony video. It is always a relief to pick up Lumix camera and know exactly how to set the exposure to maximize dynamic range.

 

[pdk42]

With video the Lumix cameras have the waveform monitor which is used to set exposure and maximize dynamic range, and I find this is better than zebras. I always wonder why they don't have a waveform monitor for photos as well. Instead there is just the histogram, which is not as effective in picking up spots of overexposure.

Sony cameras do not have a waveform monitor for video, and I always use zebras with Sony video. It is always a relief to pick up Lumix camera and know exactly how to set the exposure to maximize dynamic range.

What is a waveform monitor? I guess it’s video only?