pdk42
Moderator
That’s a good metaphor.Absolutely nobody, as you rightly point out this is silly. It's like telling a Mercedes SL500 buyer to get a Subaru Imprezza WRX instead.
Rolex vs Apple Smart watch etc.
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Leica SL3-S on January 16th?
- Thread starter Quentinquirelino
- Start date
Here is a link to Ted Forbes' initial impression of the Leica SL3-S. Only 10:48 long, to the point and seems a fair assessment including commentary about price (but without the PP moaning). I noticed at 3:47 when he was scrolling through the burst mode on the LCD you can see that the camera drops from 14-bit to 12-bit from 7fps and higher.
Good comparison, but also the explanation for some reviews and reactions:Absolutely nobody, as you rightly point out this is silly. It's like telling a Mercedes SL500 buyer to get a Subaru Imprezza WRX instead.
Rolex vs Apple Smart watch etc.
- the typical buyer Leica buyer is not a you tube viewer
- Leica has a small market share, independent from the competition
- The standard photographer will never buy a SL Leica because of price or feature comparison to others.
Looking at myself: If I had the money to go with Leica and the price is not killing me I would go into the shop and buy one. But then all the videos and reviews are not important and I would not look at it…
In regard to all the reviewers:
- if you are are real professional you can not compare to other brands, because you will not own several brands. Also you have no time to compare, becuase you earn your money with photography and films, not with comparisons.
- a professional does not care if any other brand is somehow better. Your gear have to do the job, that is all! If not you loose money and then you will change your gear…
- a youtuber earns the money with clips, but then in my opinion he is not a „real“ fulltime professional photographer!
- I dropped any impression from good and independent journalism at youtube long time ago. There are only few channels which give good information for me, like a good magazin or newspaper.
CharlesH
LMF-Patron Gold
I've watched a few SL3-S reviews. My thought, first forgetting about price, would I want it over my S5IIx? I really like the CFExpress B card; that's a thing the S5IIx should have had, especially when using ProRes. I like the Leica menu system; it seems like an upgrade over Lumix. I like the tilt screen; I know with my video/hybrid orientation I should prefer a flip screen, but I actually like well implemented tilt screens. And it's a better looking camera, and with better weather sealing. But, it doesn't seem to have the exposure tools the S5IIx has, like a waveform monitor which I consider almost essential for video. And it's not going to take better pictures or videos. I don't know, if the price was the same I might go for the Leica. Of course back to reality, the nice things about the SL3-S aren't worth the price difference for me.
Yes, there are some really nice features on the SL3-S that I would like. The tilty screen would be perfect for me, and I love the control panel design. It looks so clean and intuitive. I am not sure I like unlabelled buttons though.
But the price is off the planet especially here in Australia due to the exchange rate. I only take photos for fun so I could never justify spending that much on a camera!
Richard Wong
Well-Known Member
Yes, it's crazy!Here in New Zealand, SL3-S's price is even higher than the Australian price
xaviergut
LMF-Patron
I have seen a couple of reviews in Spanish and German and curiously it seems that they insist on the photographic capabilities of the Leica SL3-s, when the vast majority of reviews about the S5IIx only reported on its impressive capabilities for video and did not say absolutely nothing about photography... and they are almost the same camera
Jonathan-Mac
Well-Known Member
My response to this is the same as every other Leica release: "I'm sure it's very nice but barring a lottery win I'll never own one, as would be the case for 99% or people". My thanks to Leica for making their mount available to other companies that make gear that people can actually afford, but that's all they'll ever get from me and apert from that they might as well not exist.
Travis Butler
Well-Known Member
What I’ve tended to notice is that Leica fans tend to focus on things that can’t be measured by numerical metrics- instead of megapixels or fps, build quality and ergonomics, for example. Shooting experience. And I can understand this to a degree, since I value a lot of the same things myself. Instead of focusing speed or MTF on a lens, color and fine tonal gradation. Etc.
The problem is that because they can’t be quantified, they’re inherently subjective. And that causes problems in reviews - especially with reviewers that want to focus on specs and feature checklists. (See our Petapixel fellow above…)
I’m not likely to be a Leica owner; the price is way out of my reach, forget about price/performance. But I can understand the mindset; cameras I’ve loved like the Oly Pen-F get derided as “fashion” cameras when what I enjoy is the build quality and shooting experience.
CharlesH
LMF-Patron Gold
It kind of reminds me of all the watch stores on Bahnhofstrasse in Zurich. Beautiful watch after beautiful watch, with very high prices that make no sense at all if what you want is something on your wrist that properly tells time. But if what you want is something that has good fashion, and something that exudes craftsmanship, and something you will feel good about owning and wearing when you dress up to go out on the town, then the prices start to make a little sense.
I see Leica somewhat like that; perhaps not all the way like a Swiss watch company, but cameras that have that have some of that aura. Now we have the SL3-S, that tells time just like my S5IIx, and a little better in some areas. Is it worth a premium over the S5IIx? Sure, but nothing like a Swiss watch premium.
pdk42
Moderator
I'm not rich, but I've got to the point in my life where I've got some slack in my funding (kids gone, mortgage paid off, still working). So I could afford a Leica if it was really going to give me something for the outlay. The Q gets sort of close because it's about the only FF fixed lens camera on the market; and it looks like a delightful camera in most ways. But the SL range seems to offer nothing that the Panasonic cameras don't also provide at a much lower price. In fact, Panasonic cameras offer some things I want that Leica don't have - like multi-axis tilt screens/flip screens, overlayed info on the image, a few more buttons; that sort of thing. And that's before we get into things like really expensive batteries and such like.
On top of all that, if I did spend big on a camera, I'd be paranoid about taking it out for fear of damage, loss, theft etc. At least with my current Panasonic cameras (S1, S1R, S5), they were all bought used and none cost more than £1000.
So a Leica SL remains in my mind as a purchase that would only ever be driven by the brand status, or perhaps some "pride of ownership" emotion. But none of that would deliver better photographs, and might actually hinder it since I'd be terrified of using the thing!
On top of all that, if I did spend big on a camera, I'd be paranoid about taking it out for fear of damage, loss, theft etc. At least with my current Panasonic cameras (S1, S1R, S5), they were all bought used and none cost more than £1000.
So a Leica SL remains in my mind as a purchase that would only ever be driven by the brand status, or perhaps some "pride of ownership" emotion. But none of that would deliver better photographs, and might actually hinder it since I'd be terrified of using the thing!
Funny someone mentioned watches...
This proves they definitely have the luxury brand thing going on trying to break into the watch market or is it just an excursion for the real fan boys?
But I actually think Lumix have the best name for watches from the camera gear pool... It does sound like a watch name
This proves they definitely have the luxury brand thing going on trying to break into the watch market or is it just an excursion for the real fan boys?
But I actually think Lumix have the best name for watches from the camera gear pool... It does sound like a watch name
- LEICA CAMERA AG - LEICA SL2-S
- 70mm F2.8 DG MACRO | Art 018
- 70.0 mm
- ƒ/7.1
- 1/200 sec
- Pattern
- ISO 800
xaviergut
LMF-Patron
I just discovered that you can not tune the white balance; you have presets, but you can not choose kelvin 5600 for example (min. 1:00:07 aprox):
That's interesting!
And I was surprised from the Ted Forbes video that you could set the number of frames per second incrementally on the LEICA. I don't think that's possible with LUMIX is it?
pdk42
Moderator
I guess this is only a deal for videographers (since real photographers always shoot raw
).
Travis Butler
Well-Known Member
I don't agree with that analogy, because it implies it's mainly fashion; and as I said in my example, the things I talked about are real. Build quality is real, and something you feel every time you try to mount a lens, or use a control dial, or even just hold a camera. (Why yes, I've owned cameras where body panels flex when you pick them up, and cameras where the bayonet binds when you mount a lens, and too many with mushy imprecise control dials.) Ergonomics are real. Control design is real. And these things all make a big difference in the joy I feel when using a camera. And to some degree, yes, that does affect the quality of pictures I take. I take better pictures when I can concentrate on the framing and the shot, instead of fighting with the controls as your hand cramps on the grip.
This discussion can be done in comparison with watches or also cars... If you want to buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini (and can somehow afford it) you will do it. if you need such a car or not. And only very few people on the planet will "need" such a car...
When I got the SL3 in my hands it was a great experience, the camera is very well build and even more lightweight then my S1R. But as said, I have no won in a lottery yet. So I can stay with my S1R or maybe the new version (depending on price only!)
BUT: If Leica decides to rip of the lens from the Q and put a L-Mount on it, it would be a very hard decision not to collect the money and spend a lot of it into such a body. I hoped for the S9 or before to the fp-l. But all of these are no real photography cameras like the Q. The Q is for me a mix of M-Leice and modern L-Mount. But good for my bank account, such a camera doesn't exist....
When I got the SL3 in my hands it was a great experience, the camera is very well build and even more lightweight then my S1R. But as said, I have no won in a lottery yet. So I can stay with my S1R or maybe the new version (depending on price only!)
BUT: If Leica decides to rip of the lens from the Q and put a L-Mount on it, it would be a very hard decision not to collect the money and spend a lot of it into such a body. I hoped for the S9 or before to the fp-l. But all of these are no real photography cameras like the Q. The Q is for me a mix of M-Leice and modern L-Mount. But good for my bank account, such a camera doesn't exist....
pdk42
Moderator
It seems a “hump free” l mount body has a lot of people asking for it. Neither the Sigma Fp nor the S9 have an EVF which rules them out. The Q as an ILC would certainly be of great interest, esp if it had a tilt screen.This discussion can be done in comparison with watches or also cars... If you want to buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini (and can somehow afford it) you will do it. if you need such a car or not. And only very few people on the planet will "need" such a car...
When I got the SL3 in my hands it was a great experience, the camera is very well build and even more lightweight then my S1R. But as said, I have no won in a lottery yet. So I can stay with my S1R or maybe the new version (depending on price only!)
BUT: If Leica decides to rip of the lens from the Q and put a L-Mount on it, it would be a very hard decision not to collect the money and spend a lot of it into such a body. I hoped for the S9 or before to the fp-l. But all of these are no real photography cameras like the Q. The Q is for me a mix of M-Leice and modern L-Mount. But good for my bank account, such a camera doesn't exist....