News Leica SL3 Reporter

[Hythloday]

I've always assumed the high Leica prices are because the cameras are made in Europe where the cost of manufacturing is much higher than in Asia.

That is one reason. The other reason seems to be quality control. There was/is a sale of Leica SL2-S cameras. They were offered at a price of 2700 euros. My Leicas came in a sealed box. The name of the person who assembled the camera is mentioned on a card, just as the name of the person who checked the camera.

The great advantage of a Leica camera is that they produce DNG files. As a RAW converter I use ART which can read the metadata in the Leica DNG files. ART makes use of Lensfun which has now a distortion profile for all the lenses I use. The Lensfun distortion profiles are better than the lens data supplied by Panasonic, especially at the widest WA end.

I also have a Lumix S5. There is a colour difference between the Leica and the Lumix cameras, also after having processed the RAW files. Personally, I like the Leica colours better. When I want to travel light, e.g. during a cycle trip, I always take my Lumix camera.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

That is one reason. The other reason seems to be quality control. There was/is a sale of Leica SL2-S cameras. They were offered at a price of 2700 euros. My Leicas came in a sealed box. The name of the person who assembled the camera is mentioned on a card, just as the name of the person who checked the camera.

I’ve also heard people assert (which I cannot personally verify) that they reject more lenses than is common in the industry. That would certainly drive the cost up of the lenses they actually ship. So, that rebranded Sigma does cost more, but your chances of getting a good one are (supposedly) higher. Sure, you can test a Sigma, send it back, and try again. And that’s what most of us will do. But you get to a point in life where time is more important than money. Assuming that they do indeed test those Sigma lenses more thoroughly than Sigma itself does, then if it’s within somebody’s means to buy such lenses then I would never judge them for making that choice. But I realize that Leica bashing (or, more specifically, the bashing of photographers who use Leica) is a popular pastime on gear forums like this one. Kind of sad to see it here, honestly.

 

[xaviergut]

My point was that I prefer two cameras (Lumix S1Rii + Sony A7CR) for the price of one (Leica SL3 Reporter). But, I would love to have the SL3 Reporter...

Regarding Leica Photographers, I usually visit the gallery of the LFI, in order to get some inspiration:

https://lfi-online.de/de/galerie/sl-mastershots.html

Anyway, I remember this quote from Alec Soth :

"I always say, ‘a monkey can take a great picture", The Photographic Journal, April 30, 2015.

I COULD NOT DISAGREE MORE

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

My point was that I prefer two cameras (Lumix S1Rii + Sony A7CR) for the price of one (Leica SL3 Reporter). But, I would love to have the SL3 Reporter...

Regarding Leica Photographers, I usually visit the gallery of the LFI, in order to get some inspiration:

https://lfi-online.de/de/galerie/sl-mastershots.html

Anyway, I remember this quote from Alec Soth :

"I always say, ‘a monkey can take a great picture", The Photographic Journal, April 30, 2015.

I COULD NOT DISAGREE MORE

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification.

I’ve only met one photographer who uses Leica. He is a pro who has (or perhaps had) his own gallery in Steamboat Springs, Colorado. Amazing large landscape prints in his gallery. Used an SL2 and the 70-200 F2.8 S-Pro. Super chill guy and we had a beer together (his gallery had a small bar in it). He thought it was great I was using the S1R. We tried to connect & go shooting as some of his favourite spots, but we never were able to make it work.

Couldn’t find the monkey quote, but I agree it’s a bit off putting. However, once AI is further integrated and tells people how to compose a given shot, he might have a point.

 

[CharlesH]

I guess if you’re manufacturing in Europe with much higher labour rates then you have two main options to remain in business:

Yes, labor rates are a factor, but in general China and other Asian countries are just very efficient and capable at manufacturing, with a huge infrastructure supporting it. Reshoring manufacturing is a large international issue at this time. Lots of people want it, but don't know how to do it. This year I've had discussions with both Europeans and Britons about this, as well as government officials in Australia. And it is a prime topic in the U.S. My thoughts about reshoring, be very through in considering exactly what products to reshore; then focus on building an efficient domestic supply chain for those products. Don't necessarily depend on traditional manufacturing companies for reshoring but encourage younger more entrepreneurial and creative people. And the more mechanical and manufacturing engineers you have, the better.

Hypothetically, speculate that Germany would like to reshore its long-lost camera industry, to sell cameras to Europeans at competitive prices as well as export them to much of the world. The formula is pretty clear; establish a supply chain for each type of component, where perhaps two companies for each component type make the parts for most camera manufacturers. Automate the heck out of each step. Develop talented design teams at the camera companies. Of course, the issues are how to finance getting this started, and how to get the government on board to support it. This, plus the leadership to make it happen.

 

[pdk42]

Yes, labor rates are a factor, but in general China and other Asian countries are just very efficient and capable at manufacturing, with a huge infrastructure supporting it. Reshoring manufacturing is a large international issue at this time. Lots of people want it, but don't know how to do it. This year I've had discussions with both Europeans and Britons about this, as well as government officials in Australia. And it is a prime topic in the U.S. My thoughts about reshoring, be very through in considering exactly what products to reshore; then focus on building an efficient domestic supply chain for those products. Don't necessarily depend on traditional manufacturing companies for reshoring but encourage younger more entrepreneurial and creative people. And the more mechanical and manufacturing engineers you have, the better.

Hypothetically, speculate that Germany would like to reshore its long-lost camera industry, to sell cameras to Europeans at competitive prices as well as export them to much of the world. The formula is pretty clear; establish a supply chain for each type of component, where perhaps two companies for each component type make the parts for most camera manufacturers. Automate the heck out of each step. Develop talented design teams at the camera companies. Of course, the issues are how to finance getting this started, and how to get the government on board to support it. This, plus the leadership to make it happen.

That’s a very interesting post Charles. I’ve been a spectator over my lifetime of the West’s acquiescence as China took over one manufacturing industry after another. It’ll be good to reshore some of the lost industries, especially in Britain where our manufacturing base is now a very pale shadow of what it once was. But I can see it’s likely to be a long haul and will need talented and passionate people. I’m not sure today’s Britain has enough people like that.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

Regarding Leica Photographers, I usually visit the gallery of the LFI, in order to get some inspiration:

https://lfi-online.de/de/galerie/sl-mastershots.html

BTW, thanks for sharing that link. Some truly superb and inspiring work by Leica SL photographers (and other Leica photographers, of course) on that page.

 

[xaviergut]

BTW, thanks for sharing that link. Some truly superb and inspiring work by Leica SL photographers (and other Leica photographers, of course) on that page.

You are welcome, George. I agree, really inspiring stuff.

Couldn’t find the monkey quote, but I agree it’s a bit off putting.

He repeats the sentence in the first 5 seconds of this video (interview) published 2 weeks ago:



It reminds me to the "Monkey selfie copyright dispute", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_selfie_copyright_dispute

in which the photographer David Slater, in Indonesia, let monkeys spent 30 minutes playing with the camera gear, triggering the remote multiple times and capturing many photographs. Only two of them came out in focus:

The selfies are funny, but not GREAT photos, in my opinion... These are the best pictures a monkey can take.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

So, I’m kinda-sorta kicking some tires, and what’s interesting is that the Hasselblad X2D II is about the same price as a SL3.

And, personally, I’m far more emotionally attracted to the Hassy than the Leica. Probably because that’s what my Father used. And that’s before I think about the larger 100 MP sensor in the Hassy (which I probably don’t need).

And the Hassy wide and standard zoom lenses are actually a little cheaper than the Leica equivalents. I’ve no idea how the compare from an IQ perspective, however.

But the advantage of the Leica is that it’s just one more body in my kit. No extra lenses needed (I’d almost certainly keep an L-mount body or two if I got the Hassy).

I need to do some reading. I actually think that the MF forum on DPR is quite good.

I know, I’m hopeless. Don’t care. Or, as Christopher Walken says - “Too bad.”

 

[CharlesH]

So, I’m kinda-sorta kicking some tires

That's exciting.

My only experience with Hasselblad, several years ago DJI introduced a drone with a Hasselblad camera (small, drone compatible). I shelled out for that drone because I thought the camera would be something special. It turns out it wasn't, and I never got photos that lived up to my expectations. It was fine, okay, but not the Hasselblad color I was expecting. But that camera and drone have evolved over several generations, and I expect by now it is excellent. So if you get an X2D II, throw in a DJI Mavic 4 Pro.

 

[Pete_W]

I’m far more emotionally attracted to the Hassy

I would be too.

I think a Hassy would be perfect for you George.

 

[pdk42]

So, I’m kinda-sorta kicking some tires, and what’s interesting is that the Hasselblad X2D II is about the same price as a SL3.

And, personally, I’m far more emotionally attracted to the Hassy than the Leica. Probably because that’s what my Father used. And that’s before I think about the larger 100 MP sensor in the Hassy (which I probably don’t need).

And the Hassy wide and standard zoom lenses are actually a little cheaper than the Leica equivalents. I’ve no idea how the compare from an IQ perspective, however.

But the advantage of the Leica is that it’s just one more body in my kit. No extra lenses needed (I’d almost certainly keep an L-mount body or two if I got the Hassy).

I need to do some reading. I actually think that the MF forum on DPR is quite good.

I know, I’m hopeless. Don’t care. Or, as Christopher Walken says - “Too bad.”

I’ve looked into MF a few times but I’m not convinced the step up in IQ is worth the expense. On top of that, because the MF space is much smaller than even L-Mount FF, the depth and width of the systems are more limited; and the cameras are usually less functional (IBIS, AF, frame rates etc).

But there is definitely an improvement in IQ, so if that’s your objective then it’s probably worth it. For dedicated landscape work, the limitations probably won’t get in your way and the cost may not be too great if you choose lenses carefully.

But frankly, whenever I go back and look at my older Flickr stuff (when I was using m43), I still find a lot that I like. So for me seeking more Mp and more IQ is really not a priority.

Truth is, I’m so, so happy with my S1Rii, right now I really am not pining for anything more.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

Thanks for the encouragement, everyone.

To be honest, I’m not sure that IQ is tops on my list. Similar to Paul, one of my favorite photos I’ve ever taken was with my Fuji X-T2 back in 2017. Although when I process it the way I want, it gets a bit noisy. But then I could have exposed it better, so…. Anyway, I’m sure a 24 MP FF sensor is more than adequate for 99% of what I do. More megapixels for me is mostly about cropping.

So, pursuing these exotic bodies is more about the shooting experience for me. Which is a bit dangerous, since you can’t really quantify that. Is it worth it? I’m not sure how to even answer that. It certainly is an indulgence. And, that kind of thinking is what put the Rivian in my garage. 10 years ago if I had that kind of money to spend, it would have been some kind of high-endish Porsche. Sure, there are cheaper cars out there that are faster, but I’ve never cared about that. It’s always about the driving experience. So, my sports car history was Miata, RX-8, Boxster. And now that I want to go off-road, the Rivian.

Anyway, getting back to cameras, the SL3S is kind of tempting as well - it’s the cheapest way to get into the Leica experience with a more-or-less modern performance (S5II). And all my lenses work. Not to mention M-mount primes, since the special microlenses in the SL bodies are designed to work well with those lenses.

Not rushing the decision. It will be interesting to see how good those new Hasselblad zooms are. Maybe next year sometime. Maybe not. As Paul said, the S1RII is amazing.

 

[Travis Butler]

So, pursuing these exotic bodies is more about the shooting experience for me. Which is a bit dangerous, since you can’t really quantify that. Is it worth it? I’m not sure how to even answer that.

This is where I love rental shops like LensRentals. The last couple of camera purchases I made after renting several bodies for a few days to try them out. It isn’t cheap (the SL3 currently runs about $400 for a week), but it’s a lot cheaper than spending several thousand on a camera you end up not liking.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

This is where I love rental shops like LensRentals. The last couple of camera purchases I made after renting several bodies for a few days to try them out. It isn’t cheap (the SL3 currently runs about $400 for a week), but it’s a lot cheaper than spending several thousand on a camera you end up not liking.

Yes, that’s something I plan to do before I actually make such a purchase.