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Latest S1ii rumours

I understand your point and smiled when you talked about the GM5. There are no cameras like that anymore!
I hoped for the S9, but this is not a camera for photographers…

But I have another reason in terms of the flagship diskussion: as said the new camera is the best Lumix can offer at the moment. But what about stacked sensor, global shutter and more for the future? By calling the new camera an S1RII I expect no S1RIII in the next years! That would proof the way of Panasonic to do more mainstream, don‘t compete with the big guys on higher level.
I think this decision is ok to gain more market share first. That is most important to survive!

But for me as convinced Lumix user this look into the future is a bit disappointing…
 
RBecker said:
I understand your point and smiled when you talked about the GM5. There are no cameras like that anymore!
I hoped for the S9, but this is not a camera for photographers…

But I have another reason in terms of the flagship diskussion: as said the new camera is the best Lumix can offer at the moment. But what about stacked sensor, global shutter and more for the future? By calling the new camera an S1RII I expect no S1RIII in the next years! That would proof the way of Panasonic to do more mainstream, don‘t compete with the big guys on higher level.
I think this decision is ok to gain more market share first. That is most important to survive!

But for me as convinced Lumix user this look into the future is a bit disappointing…
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First of all: there is presumedly also another camera coming at the NAB2025, I would definitely wait until you know what kind of camera that is.

Secondly: a stacked sensor doesn't make it automatically a better camera, might even be the opposite for dynamic range etc.

I would first want to know what the real values are about ISO, low-light, dynamic range, rolling shutter etc before we can even discuss this properly.
 
Nevyn72 said:
I asked chatGPT:

Comparison of Zenmuse X9-8K and Sony IMX366

Sensor & Resolution: Both are full-frame (35mm) sensors capable of 8K video. The X9-8K records at 8192 x 4320, while the IMX366 has ~44.72MP.
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8192x4320 isn't 3:2 ratio. It's 16:10. Converted to the 3:2 aspect ratio of the sensor, you get 8192x5460, which adds up to 44.72 Mpix. Would be perfect fit.

The S1R has 44.3 MPix according to the leaked press text.

Nevyn72 said:
Frame Rates & Bit Depth: The X9-8K supports 8K at 60fps and 4K at 120fps, whereas the IMX366 handles 8K at 26.15fps (14-bit) or high-speed 8K at 12-bit.
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The IMX366 does 26.15 fps in 3:2, 8192x5460 pixel, but it does a little bit over 30 fps at 8192x4320 Pixel 14 bit and a little over 60 fps at 12 bit. And it also can do 4k 120 fps. Would be a perfect fit.
Nevyn72 said:
Dynamic Range & ISO: The X9-8K offers over 14 stops of dynamic range and dual native ISO (800/4000). The IMX366’s exact values are undisclosed.
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Nevyn72 said:
Conclusion:

Both sensors share similarities, but the X9-8K offers higher 8K frame rates, suggesting DJI may use a different or customized sensor rather than the IMX366.

----
I DO agree that it will probably be an version of the IMX366, but soon we will find out for sure.
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Sounds like chatGPT should do better research.
 
Different question to the group:
was it a fault to decide for the 44MP sensor and not the 60MP sensor like Leica?

For me the 47MP from the S1R was always enough resolution. I use the S1R for studio, portraits, architecture and landscape with great results. But the S1R is not the solution for action…
I could read a lot of entries here in terms of the read out. We don‘t know the read out of the new camera right now, but the 60MP sensor is worse than the S5II and that sensor is not great at all (for readout!)
So in my opinion the decision against the 60MP is fine, especially if there is only one body for the future which combines resolution and speed.

BTW: the best overview I could find for readspeed was this:
 
RBecker said:
Different question to the group:
was it a fault to decide for the 44MP sensor and not the 60MP sensor like Leica?

For me the 47MP from the S1R was always enough resolution. I use the S1R for studio, portraits, architecture and landscape with great results. But the S1R is not the solution for action…
I could read a lot of entries here in terms of the read out. We don‘t know the read out of the new camera right now, but the 60MP sensor is worse than the S5II and that sensor is not great at all.
So in my opinion the decision against the 60MP is fine, especially if there is only one body for the future which combines resolution and speed.

BTW: the best overview I could find for readspeed was this:
Click to expand...
I think they made the best decision the could make. Now it can be a true hybrid cam what sells at both sides of the market (photo+video).

Also 60MP makes the lens choice even more an issue, there are not that many lenses in the L-mount for 60MP.

And for the videographer: the 60MP sensor would have been a NO-GO, this is a much better fit.
 
Well, I thought that the stacked sensors are not that good in terms of noise and DR. I have the impresión because in a Nikon forum people there complain about the noise in the Z8 and the Z6lll (semi stacked sensor). But it can be wrong.

The stacked sensors make cameras very expensive. Look at the Sony RX100 Vii or the OM3... And these two are small sensors...

Regarding the name. If Lumix called the camera "S5R" (instead of S1Rii) people would believe that the S1 line is dead, right?
 
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Oíche said:
AI stock market scam, watch it all crash hic burp nVidia
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There can be said a lot about (and against) AI, but it is legit. I use it now often in my creative process:

I wanted to make a video for my Italian father (who is in the 70's) with an Italian song about his live, problem: i cannot sing, make music or even speak italian.

I used Claude for the text, (chatGPT alike but more creative) together with Suno (generates music).

But with that you can make something like this:


Subtitles in Dutch, Italian and English available.
 
RBecker said:
Different question to the group:
was it a fault to decide for the 44MP sensor and not the 60MP sensor like Leica?

For me the 47MP from the S1R was always enough resolution. I use the S1R for studio, portraits, architecture and landscape with great results. But the S1R is not the solution for action…
I could read a lot of entries here in terms of the read out. We don‘t know the read out of the new camera right now, but the 60MP sensor is worse than the S5II and that sensor is not great at all (for readout!)
So in my opinion the decision against the 60MP is fine, especially if there is only one body for the future which combines resolution and speed.

BTW: the best overview I could find for readspeed was this:
Click to expand...
The difference between 44Mp and 60Mp is only 16% extra in linear dimensions. It’s really not a big deal. 44Mp is plenty for almost all purposes.
 
Travis Butler said:
I admit this is a personal sore point for me. I feel I've been under siege for at least a decade, since the Lumix GM5.. And it died, because it wasn't given a fair shake.
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It died because Panasonic didn’t sell enough of them. The market (that’s you, me, and millions of others) didn’t spend enough of our cash on cameras like the GM5. I had one briefly (bought used). I sold it again because the EVF was too small, it didn’t have an articulating screen, and it had only one dial. I loved its size, but ultimately, for me, its small size forced too big a compromise over its usability. I’m sure others (like you) thought differently. But clearly there were more people like me than like you and that’s why it didn’t get a successor.

The PenF suffered a similar lack-of-sales fate, but for me I loved the PenF. It was big enough to give very decent handling and its IQ was good. Its only fault in my eyes was a rather high launch price. But it got mixed reviews, mainly because of poor AF (and it is poor - worse than the Olympus 16Mp cameras it was sitting next to on the display shelf). It was good enough for me, but I know many people who tried the PenF and didn’t cope because photos of their child/dog/cat etc were constantly OOF.

It’s really not worth getting personal about decisions companies make about products. In truth, we’re living in an age of plenty where talented people design and produce these exquisite pieces of technology for us to enjoy.
 
Oíche said:
You need to blank him out like I do and others otherwise they affect your mental health. Besides I don't give a shit about his opinion anyway Daumenhoch

On YouTube select 'don't recommend this channel' and it's supposed to not turn up again... but the algorithm is a joke and doesn't work for me anyway.

If I could get a screen/general/media filter to 100% block a certain aging sociopathic narcissist I would buy it for my mental health. Z04 Pc2
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I think Chris Nichols is a decent photo reviewer/journalist. I don’t see him as negative or biased. He gives his opinions. It’s up to me to judge whether I think they’re justified. Same for all the others. But I don’t like Jared Polin ;)
 
xaviergut said:
Hahahaha :D that is a great idea, Pete. You can add to the list of stupid statements something like: "The S1Rii is cheaper than its Nikon, Canon and Sony direct rivals, and therefore it feels like plastic, because cheap is bad and expensive is allways good" Z04 Kaputtlachen
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Haha! Exactly. And I bet there will also be the comment "they are too late to the market with this camera".

pdk42 said:
I think Chris Nichols is a decent photo reviewer/journalist. I don’t see him as negative or biased. He gives his opinions. It’s up to me to judge whether I think they’re justified. Same for all the others. But I don’t like Jared Polin ;)
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Chris Niccolls is not a journalist. I think that's where the problem is, for me. I prefer facts rather than opinions.
 
Quentinquirelino said:
If the S1RII has got the IMX366, it probably would be round about 16.5 ms for 8k.

But it probably will be a little bit different for photo. The A1 reads out the sensor in about 4-5 ms for photography. The IMX366 takes probably about 19 ms.
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It would seem, then, that the IMX366 will still be too slow to avoid banding when shooting under 60 Hz fluorescent lighting, which is one of the primary reasons an events photographer would want a stacked sensor, as I understand it.
 
pdk42 said:
All lenses will deliver sharper final results on a higher Mp sensor (when viewed at the same output dimensions).
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I remember you citing Roger Cigala before on this subject, but if a lens is producing blurry details surely you'll only achieve higher resolution blurry details.

Same output dimensions... so squeezing, say 47MP into 24MP output effectively makes them sharper, but it doesn't make them sharper at native output so it's kind of misleading.

Obviously you'll want higher res lenses for higher res cameras otherwise you are somewhat handicapping it... Which is what the OP meant. DXO have indexes for lenses and I think the Lumix 85 f1.8 scores highest but they have only tested a few. Personally I'm not convinced or worried by it as the 24-105 f4 only scored 24MP or something... There is much more to photography than sharpness neuroses.
 
Oíche said:
...
Same output dimensions... so squeezing, say 47MP into 24MP output effectively makes them sharper, but it doesn't make them sharper at native output so it's kind of misleading.
Click to expand...
But same output is the thing that matters. Everything else is useless comparison.

Oíche said:
Obviously you'll want higher res lenses for higher res cameras otherwise you are somewhat handicapping it... Which is what the OP meant. DXO have indexes for lenses and I think the Lumix 85 f1.8 scores highest but they have only tested a few. Personally I'm not convinced or worried by it as the 24-105 f4 only scored 24MP or something... There is much more to photography than sharpness neuroses.
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Higher res lenses are higher res on high res sensor and low res sensor alike. To get the best possible result, you should use high res lenses and high res cameras together.

But also high re lenses on low res cameras or low res lenses on high res cameras are better than low res lenses on low res cameras, what is effectively the worst.
 
Oíche said:
I remember you citing Roger Cigala before on this subject, but if a lens is producing blurry details surely you'll only achieve higher resolution blurry details.

Same output dimensions... so squeezing, say 47MP into 24MP output effectively makes them sharper, but it doesn't make them sharper at native output so it's kind of misleading.

Obviously you'll want higher res lenses for higher res cameras otherwise you are somewhat handicapping it... Which is what the OP meant. DXO have indexes for lenses and I think the Lumix 85 f1.8 scores highest but they have only tested a few. Personally I'm not convinced or worried by it as the 24-105 f4 only scored 24MP or something... There is much more to photography than sharpness neuroses.
Click to expand...
There was not only the article from Roger Cicala,there is also an older document from ZEISS about sensor and lens resolution. There is a proof that the final picture will be sharper with higher sensor resolution, even if the lenses can not reach the same level. This document was written by Dr.Hubert Nasse, the chief of lens development at ZEISS.

Lenspire

lenspire.zeiss.com lenspire.zeiss.com
You have to check "How to read MTF diagrams, part II"

It was a great discussion over 15 years ago, when Nikon released the 12MP D700 and Canon released the 21MP EOS5DII. A lot of people could not believe, that most of the available lenses will be good enough for the Canon. A few years later all Nikon users where waiting for a higher MP camera...

BTW: I expect that modern designs on higher level have no problems with 60MP or even more! I work a lot with Sigma Art lenses on my S1R and the results are great (so I do not have to think about medium format). But I would not expect the same results from the Lumix 20-60 ...
 
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