L-Mount system (S5II/X) vs Nikon Z (Zf)

[xaviergut]

I am hesitating between the S5IIX and the Zf as my next camera. I made a quick comparison (I posted it in DPReview too), and I would like to read your thoughts and corrections if something is wrong:

1. The L-Mount system has not YET a flagship camera to compete with the Nikon Z8/Z9 in terms of AF.

2. The Nikon Zf is a mid-range camera due to the number of mpx (24mpx) of the sensor and the price of (approximately) €2,500. The last two mid-range cameras of the L-Mount system, i.e. the S5II and S5IIX, are better video cameras than the Nikon Zf.

3. The pixel-shift feature that Nikon has included in the Zf is something that Panasonic Lumix has been offering in its cameras for many years. Furthermore, in the Lumix the camera edits the 96mpx photograph without the need for an external editing program, which is what happens with the Zf. The pre-burst function is new on Nikon cameras, but not on Lumix cameras.

4. The way to configure timelapses on Lumix cameras is more efficient and practical than on the Zf.

5. I personally love the 65:24 X-Pan aspect ratio that the FF Lumix cameras offer and the Nikon Zf doesn't.

6. Absolutely no one takes into account the 4k/6k function of Lumix cameras for use in photography with efficient AF results. No one takes into account the post-focus option neither. Nikon doesn't offer this features.

7. Leica, Panasonic and Sigma lenses are just as good as the Nikon Z system lenses??? I don't know, but L-Mount users are very well served and there are more to come.

8. Panasonic cameras are very underrated as photo cameras.

9. Industrial design and marketing can drive a lot of money for camera manufacturers. A beautiful camera can sell very well. Leica knows that. In the S5IIX with its all-black design was taken this trend into account.

10. I would like Panasonic to launch an S5R with 60mpx resolution. Also a rangefinder style camera that competes with the Zf.

 

[Jan.Wedekind]

If Nikon had a mini Z8 with APSC but with all the features (unlike R7), I think I would take a good long look. It’s the only other mount I find interesting.

But what is the question? AF wise, I am impressed how good their first two cameras with PDAF already are. It too Nikon YEARS to get back into the game despite having PDAF. So on that I am happy and optimistic.

Overall there is no bad choice between both mounts. It all depends on personal preference and needs, especially in terms of lenses.

I never used Nikon. I really like Panasonic. Given their latest releases - including a “photo centric” M43 body, I’m much more relaxed about the future. I’m sure there will be a SX/GX line coming for example. Also sure as rain that a new S1H will come. Interesting times ahead

 

[xaviergut]

If Nikon had a mini Z8 with APSC but with all the features (unlike R7), I think I would take a good long look. It’s the only other mount I find interesting.

But what is the question? AF wise, I am impressed how good their first two cameras with PDAF already are. It too Nikon YEARS to get back into the game despite having PDAF. So on that I am happy and optimistic.

Overall there is no bad choice between both mounts. It all depends on personal preference and needs, especially in terms of lenses.

I never used Nikon. I really like Panasonic. Given their latest releases - including a “photo centric” M43 body, I’m much more relaxed about the future. I’m sure there will be a SX/GX line coming for example. Also sure as rain that a new S1H will come. Interesting times ahead

Hi Jan, one year and a half ago I was hesitating between the Nikon Z6II and the Lumix S5. I ended up buying the Lumix with the 20-60mm and the 35mm 1.8 for a very good price, the same price as the Z6II without lenses. That is how I started in the L-Mount system.

But, I have to say that my favourite camera of all times is the Nikon Df, because that sensor produces very beautiful and pleasing colors. In the meantime I bought for my wife a Nikon Zfc. She said the camera is OK. I found the camera a little bit like a plastic toy. We paired it with the Nikon Z 28mm, another plastic toy, but the images of the 28 (42mm FF equiv.) were very good. And it was a light combo for trekking. We finally sold it because the lack of IBIS or OIS was a bit disappointing.

In the last months I am making more and more video because of professional and personal reasons. I am thinking about upgrading my S5 for a S5II or S5IIX. But, Nikon comes now with the ZF, which is the FF version of the Zfc but much better: IBIS up to 8 stops, the AF system of the Nikon Z8/Z9, the AF help for manual lenses, the black and white selector, the very good video capabilities, the beautiful design... It is certainly a very tempting camera. The problem is that I have only Nikon F mount lenses. The FTZ adapter makes the thing a bit bigger as desired.

So, I have a tendency towards the S5IIX. Both cameras have the same price in Europe (2.500€), but the video performance of the S5IIX is better. And I have 6 L-Mount lenses.

I have been looking for information about the Nikon Zf and I have realised that the Panasonic Lumix mid range cameras are better than the Nikon cameras (Z6II and Zf) for video, and they are probably on par for photography, because the only advantage of the Nikon is the better AF, and the difference is very small since Panasonic Lumix went PDAF. Panasonic is better in photography features like post-focus, 4k-6k photography, timelapses, 65:24 aspect ratio in camera, pre-burst mode or live view composite mode.

What I dont know is if the lenses of the Z system are better than the lenses of Lumix, Sigma and Leica...

As you pointed out, I hope we see a Lumix SX rangefinder style camera to compete with the Sony A7C, A7CII and A7CR.

 

[Pete_W]

I've not used a Nikon camera since I had a F90X (film camera) about 30 years ago! So I can't really comment on them generally.

One thing you haven't mentioned in your list is that the Zf has a much different styling and control layout compared with Panasonic. I like the idea of manual controls and nearly purchased a Fujifilm XT4 for this reason last year, but instead went with an S5.

Another difference is that the Zf body has a more shallow grip than the S5II / S5IIx. I think it would be worth going to a store and holding one to see if you like it.

Chris and Jordan at PetaPixel did a good video review of the Zf that's worth watching.

 

[xaviergut]

the Zf has a much different styling and control layout compared with Panasonic.

Exactly, I think it is possible to change the settings without turning on the camera, like the Df does.

the Zf body has a more shallow grip than the S5II / S5IIx

Your are right, I think in Germany they are seeling the camera with the SmallRig grip included in the price.

I think it would be worth going to a store and holding one to see if you like it.

That is a great idea!!

 

[Jan.Wedekind]

I like the Zf design but I don’t like the dials, it’s not how I like to use a camera. Same reason the Fuji XT does not appeal to me.

I think it’s obvious - and Chris and Jordan heavily hinted at it - that a Z6iii is coming very soon. Maybe wait if not in a hurry?

Also, why the S5iix over non x? I don’t even recall the differences, are they so important? Since you’re in Europe, Amazon Spain has the S5ii on offer for 1870€ body only. Hard to beat at that price!

 

[xaviergut]

Amazon Spain has the S5ii on offer for 1870€ body only.

Wow, I didn't know that! Thank you very much!!

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

Might be worth waiting for the next big firrmware update of the S5II. Assuming it does come, it will by and large define how good the S5II is relative to it's peers from an AF standpoint.

 

[Quentinquirelino]

1. The L-Mount system has not YET a flagship camera to compete with the Nikon Z8/Z9 in terms of AF.

Do you think you will need such a flagship camera in the foreseeable future? If so, Nikon is currently the better option. Otherwise the existence of the Z8/Z9 shouldn't matter for you.

2. The Nikon Zf is a mid-range camera due to the number of mpx (24mpx) of the sensor and the price of (approximately) €2,500. The last two mid-range cameras of the L-Mount system, i.e. the S5II and S5IIX, are better video cameras than the Nikon Zf.

How important are those video features for you? If there are important, Panasonic is the better option.

3. The pixel-shift feature that Nikon has included in the Zf is something that Panasonic Lumix has been offering in its cameras for many years. Furthermore, in the Lumix the camera edits the 96mpx photograph without the need for an external editing program, which is what happens with the Zf. The pre-burst function is new on Nikon cameras, but not on Lumix cameras.

Point for Lumix.

4. The way to configure timelapses on Lumix cameras is more efficient and practical than on the Zf.

Point for Lumix

5. I personally love the 65:24 X-Pan aspect ratio that the FF Lumix cameras offer and the Nikon Zf doesn't.

Point for Lumix

6. Absolutely no one takes into account the 4k/6k function of Lumix cameras for use in photography with efficient AF results. No one takes into account the post-focus option neither. Nikon doesn't offer this features.

However, you have to consider that the S5II and S5IIX doesn't have the 6k photo modes. They have 30fps Raw burst mode with C-AF, what replaces some functions of it. But not all.

7. Leica, Panasonic and Sigma lenses are just as good as the Nikon Z system lenses??? I don't know, but L-Mount users are very well served and there are more to come.

As far as I know Panasonic and Nikon lenses have different strengths. Panasonic more for videography, Nikon more for photography. The strength of Sigma is more similar to Nikon. But if you need telephoto lenses, Nikon has more interesting options. L-Mount has enough for me at the moment, but maybe not for everyone.

10. I would like Panasonic to launch an S5R with 60mpx resolution. Also a rangefinder style camera that competes with the Zf.

I think here we have the biggest weakness of Panasonic, at least in my observations. Panasonic is very slow in releasing new products, camera bodys and lenses, compared to the competition. I hope and I believe we will get those cameras in the future. But maybe not within the next year.

 

[AlanC]

But, Nikon comes now with the ZF, which is the FF version of the Zfc but much better: IBIS up to 8 stops

This is an interesting one given that Nikon are stabilizing the image around the selected focus point; how much advantage will that be in practice? On the other hand Panasonic have a definite edge when it comes to video. Watch any of Richard Wong's videos where he's testing the S5ii: it looks like it's on a gimbal.

What I dont know is if the lenses of the Z system are better than the lenses of Lumix, Sigma and Leica...

Try the reviews at LensTip.com. They haven't reviewed any L-Mount lenses, but there's a good selection of Sigma's lenses in Sony E-mount to compare with Nikon's equivalents. Nikon's high end S-Line lenses likely have the edge, but they're seriously expensive.

 

[xaviergut]

why the S5iix over non x?

Hi Jan, I am interested in unlimited SSD recording, 6K/30p video, RAW video output and wireless IP streaming. The look in total black is appelaing too... for me
Anyway the S5II is almost the same camera and I am considering it as 2nd option.

 

[NFec]

IntereoI wanted to mention that the 4k/6k photo mode has some kind of pre-burst, but I was not aware that the 4k/6k photo mode does not exist on the S5ii.
Sure it did deliver jpegs only, but on my S1R it works pretty well for some cases.

 

[MattGeo399]

Yea I think it's disappointing that Panasonic removed the in-camera focus stacking and post-focus features of 6K photo. They replaced other aspects of 6K photo with pre-burst and actually recording a high quality video, but I don't think there is any replacement for focus stacking in camera.

 

[CharlesH]

Yea I think it's disappointing that Panasonic removed the in-camera focus stacking and post-focus features of 6K photo. They replaced other aspects of 6K photo with pre-burst and actually recording a high quality video, but I don't think there is any replacement for focus stacking in camera.

The S5II/S5IIx have focus bracketing, that was in the last firmware update.

 

[Quentinquirelino]

The S5II/S5IIx have focus bracketing, that was in the last firmware update.

Didn't they have focus bracketing from the beginning? I think live composite was the missing feature, that they've got through a firmware update. Still no in camera stacking.

 

[PhotoPete]

I am no expert but here is my short history (don't laugh ).

I had a Lumix G9 and a lot of lenses when I decided to go for full frame. That was a clean start for me as I needed to buy all the necessary lenses not just the frame. So I thought that this is a good time to stop and think what is the right brand and system for me.

I ended up looking at Nikon and Panasonic (for some reason I don't like Canon). The idea was that there must be a reason why all the serious photographers are using Nikon. After some months of google research I came to a conclusion that Nikon lenses are expensive and quite heavy. Also technically the Nikon frames are no better (maybe worse) than Lumix. So I bought the S5ii plus some lenses. Could not be happier.

But the name Nikon still sounds better which is a little annoying

 

[Richard Wong]

There are pros and cons with both options, but the Zf is a BEAUTIFUL camera that also feels amazing!

 

[xaviergut]

There are pros and cons with both options, but the Zf is a BEAUTIFUL camera that also feels amazing!

It is beautiful indeed

Looking forward to watch your review!

 

[AlanC]

There are pros and cons with both options, but the Zf is a BEAUTIFUL camera that also feels amazing!

I would love to have one: I have a Fujifilm X-Pro2 and greatly prefer having conventional controls to PASM and command dials. The downside is none of Nikon's Z lenses have aperture rings; OK some have programmable control rings that can be used for aperture, but it's not the same.

 

[Nevyn72]

I like the Zf design but I don’t like the dials, it’s not how I like to use a camera. Same reason the Fuji XT does not appeal to me.

I think it’s obvious - and Chris and Jordan heavily hinted at it - that a Z6iii is coming very soon. Maybe wait if not in a hurry?

Also, why the S5iix over non x? I don’t even recall the differences, are they so important? Since you’re in Europe, Amazon Spain has the S5ii on offer for 1870€ body only. Hard to beat at that price!

If you are mainly into photgraphs, I agree. However if you do a lot of video there is no comparison.

I have the S5IIX, and I use very often the 4K All-I and the 5.8K Proress HQ. They have WAY better video quality than the S5II. In a way I was shocked how much difference 4:2:2 makes over 4:2:0, and these codecs are also a lot less stressfull on my PC. (I use Davinci Resolve and do a lot of colorgrading on the footage). All is shot directly to a SSD, what is also a very usefull option.

I see the S5II as the camera Panasonic had to release because it was taking to long, but the S5IIX the one they really WANTED to release.