Battle of the flagships

[pdk42]

Of course, no S1/S1R - just Nikon vs Canon vs Sony.

Interesting that Chris Nicholls waxes lyrical about the Z9's size because of the "great dials, great handling, and perfectly balanced with longer lenses", whilst when he reviewed the (smaller) S1/S1R, he criticised it for its size !! But that was 2019 and clearly the market has moved on...

 

[xaviergut]

Well, it is sad that the Leica SL3 is not considered as a flagship camera...

...when it is at the same level in terms of price.

 

[pdk42]

Well, it is sad that the Leica SL3 is not considered as a flagship camera...

...when it is at the same level in terms of price.

Yes, that's very true...

 

[CharlesH]

The A1 has been a very capable camera for me, so of these flagship choices I would go for the A1 II. And Sony has a a huge range of their own and third party lenses.

The only issue I've had, Sony was VERY slow to bring any software upgrades to the A1 and it lagged behind their other cameras. They finally had a comprehensive software upgrade and brought it up to date. That delay made me wonder about their flagship priority. That said, if I was off to do wildlife or sports I would pack the A1, and if it was something I really wanted to capture well I might upgrade to the A1 II.

 

[Oíche]

Well, it is sad that the Leica SL3 is not considered as a flagship camera...

...when it is at the same level in terms of price.

2/3 the money is for the label, it's far from a flagship camera.

 

[pdk42]

2/3 the money is for the label, it's far from a flagship camera.

It’s the best in L-Mount at present.

 

[Nevyn72]

It’s the best in L-Mount at present.

A flagship is expected to be very good in photography AND video. Even the S5iiX is more flagship than the SL3... The L-mount doesn't have a flagship (yet).

My biggest bet would be DJI in the future for a L-mount flagship.

If I would have to choose from this three I would go for the Z9... Or the Z8.

I'm no fan of Canon ( because of the mount restrictions for other manufacturers), or Sony (Ibis, color science, lack of updates)

 

[pdk42]

If I would have to choose from this three I would go for the Z9... Or the Z8.

I'm no fan of Canon ( because of the mount restrictions for other manufacturers), or Sony (Ibis, color science, lack of updates)

Yeah, me too. But the lack of zebras on stills live view is a hard pill to swallow.

 

[CH_CH]

Realistically, the "youtube" photo world focuses (pun intended) in video, sports and wildlife photography.
It makes sense because it is where most dollars are spent in equipment, i.e. more margins, i.e. more moneyssss
Normals like me are happy with the "entrylevel" cameras and lenses. For portrait, travel, landscape, a S5ii is basically already premium, and will give same or better results than all those stacked sensor cameras (all of which which have worse DR).
As the L mount has very limited PRO lenses for sports and wildlife, it would make little commercial sense to make a competitor to those cameras.
The "only" flagship that would make sense is a video centric one.
There, what is needed is more related to making it a mini cinema camera. This means
1- Higher Dynamic range, possibly using the lumix dynamic boost
2- raw and raw-like codecs in camera, including all modes being full-readout.
3- low reading speed and higher framerates (4k120p being the sweet spot)
4- quality of life, such as no overheating, great IBIS, easy SSD integration, SSD + charging at the same time, great EVF, great bright multiturn screen...
There is a small gap of time right now in which this camera can come and become a hit.
If you wait too much, a competitor with more established lens lineup and customer base will bring it to market and the chance would be gone...
(all of this as a discussion, I am more than served with the current cameras, if anything I need a MFT S9 version)

 

[Pete_W]

Normals like me are happy with the "entrylevel" cameras and lenses. For portrait, travel, landscape, a S5ii is basically already premium, and will give same or better results than all those stacked sensor cameras (all of which which have worse DR).

Yes, that's me too. There are more features in my two S5II and S9 than I know what to do with!

 

[Quentinquirelino]

....

My biggest bet would be DJI in the future for a L-mount flagship.

...

I still think the successor of the S1H could be a kind of flagship. Because of the hardware it needs to have and because Panasonic usually don't hold back with for the "other side" features.

A camera dedicated for photography will always get packed with video features. That's why the G9II was also a better choice for many videographer, compared to the GH6, while being a camera dedicated for photography.

But also a camera dedicated for videography will get all the major features a photographer needs and wants. That's why currently, the GH7 is nothing worse for photography than the G9II. Maybe it's even better for photography than the G9II.

And of course, a S1H successor needs to have a fast read out, because videographer wants to have higher frame rates. And it probably als needs higher resolution, because more and more videographer wants to have 8K. If Panasonic wants to have a full full those needs, they end up with something comparable with a Z8. Probably better for videography, but also packed with features for photography.

 

[pdk42]

Normals like me are happy with the "entrylevel" cameras and lenses. For portrait, travel, landscape, a S5ii is basically already premium, and will give same or better results than all those stacked sensor cameras (all of which which have worse DR).

I have an S1R as well as an S5, mainly because I wanted to try the higher res capabilities. But of course, I bought it used for a bargain price (less than a new S5ii). I doubt I'd have paid the sticker price at launch.

But now owning one, I can appreciate the higher build quality and higher quality components. The EVF, shutter, rear-screen mechanism, button feel etc is a definite step up. The build and handling also inspires enormous confidence. In fact, there are times when I think I may pick up a used S1 too to complement my S5. Weight aside, the shooting experience with the S1R is also a step up - it feels better in the hand and it's easier to get the camera to do what you want.

So I think these are things that are also the hallmark of a flagship camera, not just top-class AF etc.

As the L mount has very limited PRO lenses for sports and wildlife, it would make little commercial sense to make a competitor to those cameras.

I wonder what % of the overall camera market is sports and wildlife. Personally I have no interest in either, but I've read that the sort of people who buy this sort of gear are usually older and wealthier types (retired dentists etc) so I expect the margins are better.

And whilst you could argue that L-mount is behind the others in terms of the gear for this market, I personally think it's not that far behind. Sigma's latest big zooms (150-600, 60-600) and their 500mm f5.6 are no slouches and I think the S5ii's AF with some more development work targeted at the sports/wildlife stills requirements could get very close to what the SoNiCan trifecta provide. An updated S1 with the best PDAF that Panasonic can throw at it could (should) be competitive with the Z8/S1/R1.

The "only" flagship that would make sense is a video centric one.
There, what is needed is more related to making it a mini cinema camera. This means
1- Higher Dynamic range, possibly using the lumix dynamic boost
2- raw and raw-like codecs in camera, including all modes being full-readout.
3- low reading speed and higher framerates (4k120p being the sweet spot)
4- quality of life, such as no overheating, great IBIS, easy SSD integration, SSD + charging at the same time, great EVF, great bright multiturn screen...
There is a small gap of time right now in which this camera can come and become a hit.
If you wait too much, a competitor with more established lens lineup and customer base will bring it to market and the chance would be gone...

Arguably Panasonic are already the top brand in video. Not only are the GH7 and S5ii top of the hybrid game, but Panasonic also produce a range of professional-grade video cameras such as the BS1H or the UX-180.

I guess they do need an FF flagship hybrid camera though as well as the GH7/S5ii - an S1H replacement. And I'm sure they'll do that.

But will they also address the stills-mainly market? Is there still a large enough stills market to make it worthwhile? I hope so, even if it means pandering to the BIF types .

(all of this as a discussion, I am more than served with the current cameras, if anything I need a MFT S9 version)

I sort of agree. In the main my Lumix FF gear does all I want. I'd love an S9-sized camera with an EVF, but OTOH, I'm not too dissatisfied with the size of the S5. I also love my S1R and would love to see its successor carry on the same traditional of a high-end, stills-focussed camera. But I appreciate that I'm probably a dying breed.

 

[pdk42]

The A1 has been a very capable camera for me, so of these flagship choices I would go for the A1 II. And Sony has a a huge range of their own and third party lenses.

The only issue I've had, Sony was VERY slow to bring any software upgrades to the A1 and it lagged behind their other cameras. They finally had a comprehensive software upgrade and brought it up to date. That delay made me wonder about their flagship priority. That said, if I was off to do wildlife or sports I would pack the A1, and if it was something I really wanted to capture well I might upgrade to the A1 II.

View attachment 7945

View attachment 7946

Beautiful shots of beautiful creatures.