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Should Panasonic produce a cropped sensor body for L-mount

JamesMorgan

New Member
Canon have APSC bodies for use with their R mount. Likewise Nikon do the same with Z mount. Whilst both of these APSC options are not as functionally rich as their FF bodies, they do offer a way of extending reach for long telephoto shots. The R7 in particular seems to work well with the RF 100-500. The rumours around the R7ii suggest this could be much closer in functionality to the R5 and include a stacked sensor.

Panasonic doesn't really offer the same options. True they have a cropped sensor with m43, but there is no interchangability of lenses between the two systems and little option to produce an adapter.

They curently offer one body with 2 options - the S5ii with a FF sensor and L-mount, and the G9ii with a m43 sensor and mount. It doesn't seem too much of a stretch to provide an option with the G9ii internals and the L-mount externals. The advantages that I would see are:

a) The current 70-300 L-mount lens would become a great wildlife lens on a m43 size cropped sensor. It would have an equivalent focal length of 140-600, but also provide 1:1 macro capabilities. The Sigma 500mm f5.6 lens would become a lightweight 1000mm equivalent lens. As a L-mount user, if I want 600mm+ reach I am reliant on either the Sigma 150-600 or 60-600 lenses. However, these are both large and heavy options. If Panasonic really want to compete with Canon/Nikon/Sony as a wildlife system they will need to produce their own range of 600-800mm lenses. Offering a crop sensor body could minimise the need to do this.

b) Unlike Canon and Nikon, this would give Panasonic a top end cropped sensor body (using G9ii internals)

c) It avoids the need to produce very high MP bodies to get as many pixels on the subject. To match the G9ii would require an 100MP FF body and a much faster processor to match its sensor speed, AF and burst modes. This may be many years away from being technically possible and also expensive.

The disadvantages I can see are:

a) If anyone was to buy this type of body as their only camera they would ideally need a range of L-mount lenses with better focal lengths for landscape/portraits (eg a 12-60, 25mm prime etc). However, this doesn't seem to have stopped Canon who have a poor set of RF-S lenses.

b) In theory using FF lenses on a cropped sensor is overkill as most of the image circle is lost. You end up using a larger and heavier lens than you need. That said, OMDS seem to have adopted a strategy of simply putting a m43 mount on Sigma FF lenses (for the 100-400 and 150-600) so their lenses are the same weight as similar focal length FF lenses anyway. The Sigma 500mm L-mount lens is not much heavier than the OMDS 300mm f4 lens so again there doesn't appear to be a weight penalty.

Am I missing something obvious?
 
I don't know if Lumix will be able to keep 4 lines/series of cameras alive: FF, Micro Four Thirds, Bridge and compact cameras... and the corresponding lenses of the first two.

I read somewhere that the Panasonic Lumix G9II is an APSC killer... We should ask @CharlesH because he owns the G9II and the Sony 6700. By the way I would include the Lumix GH7 as an APSC killer... in the video side of things.
 
It's an interesting question. If Panasonic offered a S5II-sized body that suddenly turned my 100-400 into a 200-800, with sensor performance on-par with the G9, and AF worthy of sports/BIF etc.. would I buy it?

Assuming the centers of all these L-mount lenses hold up well to the photosite size of the m4/3 sensor, then maybe.

Or would I rather have a 60 MP FF body that gives me a 1.5x crop.

Given that I am "landscape first" I'd probably first buy the latter, but I wouldn't rule out complimenting the 60 MP body with the crop-body later. Or maybe I'd "live" with the S1R for landscape and get the "S5IIs" or whatever it would be called for wildlife.

Whatever I did, I sure do like the idea of being able to use my L-mount lenses on both bodies. Now, the (typically) slower FF lenses would take their toll on noise when used on a m43 sensor, but I suppose we have DxO for that.

If there was a way to adapt existing m43 lenses to this new crop body, that would be that cat's meow, but I suspect that's not possible.
 
They curently offer one body with 2 options - the S5ii with a FF sensor and L-mount, and the G9ii with a m43 sensor and mount. It doesn't seem too much of a stretch to provide an option with the G9ii internals and the L-mount externals.
The flange distances for m43 and L-mount are pretty close, 19.25mm for m43 and 20mm for L-mount. For L-mount lenses with this option, the flange distance would be 20mm, and the image on the sensor would be full frame, and somewhat magnified in the m43 region. That is, a camera with this option would be inherently a little more telephoto than current m43 cameras.

It wouldn't be possible to make an adapter so that current m43 lenses could be used with this option; the flange distance difference is small and off in the wrong direction. So a new set of "m43 mount like" lenses would be needed for this option to have the capability and small size advantages of current m43 lenses.

I have cameras with multiple lens mounts: L-mount, m43, Sony FE and Sony E. So I'm a little sympathetic to what you're proposing. Sony does have some advantage because their full frame lenses (FE) also work with their aps-c cameras (E). But in practice the real advantage of aps-c is having smaller lenses compared to full frame, so I have dedicated full frame Sony lenses and dedicated aps-c Sony lenses.

Along with what you are suggesting, when shooting telephoto with my Sony A1, I will often switch it to aps-c mode to zoom in by 1.5x. (I have a button dedicated to this.) This is a 50MP camera so I can get away with it. I'd prefer Panasonic work on a higher MP camera with this capability than a cropped sensor L-mount camera.

I read somewhere that the Panasonic Lumix G9II is an APSC killer... We should ask @CharlesH because he owns the G9II and the Sony 6700.
They are both very good cameras.Z04 975
 
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An S1R mark ii with a 61Mp sensor would give you 25Mp APSC crops. I think that would be a better approach. As a bonus, you could also offer "small" FF raws of about 25Mp via over-sampling. That would produce some very clean files of manageable size that would suit photographers who shoot a lot of frames (events, sports etc).

In fact, going for a high Mp FF camera with flexible framing and cropping makes a lot of sense:

- In FF max res mode, it would suit those looking for the highest resolution (landscapes, studio).
- In APSC crop mode it would suit those looking to use crop lenses, or to increase the effective reach of longer lenses (sports, wildlife).
- In FF "small raw" mode It would give the option of smaller raw files for people who shoot a lot of frames in one session (weddings, sports).

I think this would be a better way to go for Panasonic rather than offering APSC.

If people really want a cropped body, then the G9ii takes a lot of beating.
 
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- In APSC crop mode it would suit those looking to use crop lenses, or to increase the effective reach of longer lenses (sports, wildlife).
- In FF "small raw" mode It would give the option of smaller raw files for people who shoot a lot of frames in one session (weddings, sports).
Ideastically yeah, but is there a technical limitation in doing real time cropping of the sensor offering faster read-out? I'm sure you're not the first to think of this and to my knowledge nobody else does this and hence the post full sensor readout crops in various aspect ratios on S5ii etc.

Maybe a global shutter is needed but then we have 4k 50/60 modes that require cropping on S5ii etc that obviously use faster readout to achieve this so is it possible?

So the want seems to be smaller APSC or M43 RAW size with a faster readout speed with the advantage of less rolling shutter in electronic VF mode which is useful for fast stuff usually long focal length, smaller RAW files and obviously the same in viewfinder.

So basically what they already do in video mode using APSC and further high estab modes?

Do Sony not offer this in stills mode with their high MP cameras?
 
As for the L-mount M43 incompatibility yeah it does seem a shame in ways but then you have those bigger L-mount corrected lenses designed for full frame being wasted all around the sensor, whereas the M43 are corrected for M43.

A side note, my FF Samyang 14mm f2.8 had pretty nasty moustache distortion on Pentax APSC, it looks far better on FF S5ii as it is zoomed out, especially where the distortion occurs mainly in the APSC region... The distortion is 1.5x less magnified and looks significantly better and better again with lens correction as there is less to correct.

Getting the Lumix 70-300 to 140-600 is a nice thought on M43 is alright

But a 24MP 2x crop gives similar to a 6MP DSLR with 600mm lens 20 years ago, maybe better focussed and then the software to enhance it with a phone instantaneously without the 1min processing on a PC back then... But I still kind of hate cheating and it'd not truly optical :cool:
 
It wouldn't be possible to make an adapter so that current m43 lenses could be used with this option; the flange distance difference is small and off in the wrong direction.
I am fairly certain that this question has been asked on LUMIX LIVE webcasts in the past and that @Sean_at_LUMIX has said it wasn't possible to adapt lenses between m4/3 and L-mount. But I may be wrong! :confused:
 
I am fairly certain that this question has been asked on LUMIX LIVE webcasts in the past and that @Sean_at_LUMIX has said it wasn't possible to adapt lenses between m4/3 and L-mount. But I may be wrong! :confused:
0.75mm registration distance difference plus the l-mount to m43 minimum adapter length adds up to an extension tube length... more macro and no infinity. Unless Lumix lenses extend beyond that much but I doubt
 
I am fairly certain that this question has been asked on LUMIX LIVE webcasts in the past and that @Sean_at_LUMIX has said it wasn't possible to adapt lenses between m4/3 and L-mount. But I may be wrong! :confused:
It would be possible if correction glass would be used in the adapter. You basically end up with a teleconverter. Ant that actually would make some sense. What a teleconverter does is stretching out the image circle. So a 2x converter would give the feeld of view of a MFT sensor on a full frame sensor.
 
It would be possible if correction glass would be used in the adapter. You basically end up with a teleconverter. Ant that actually would make some sense. What a teleconverter does is stretching out the image circle. So a 2x converter would give the feeld of view of a MFT sensor on a full frame sensor.
These adapters have been available for incompatible flange distance lenses for a long time; Canon FD to EF is the one I can remember off the top of my head. I have never heard a positive comment on the IQ, while the negative comments are too many to count.
 
These adapters have been available for incompatible flange distance lenses for a long time; Canon FD to EF is the one I can remember off the top of my head. I have never heard a positive comment on the IQ, while the negative comments are too many to count.
Off course, every additional optic will degenerate the image quality. It's the same with teleconverters inside a system.
 
Another
They curently offer one body with 2 options - the S5ii with a FF sensor and L-mount, and the G9ii with a m43 sensor and mount. It doesn't seem too much of a stretch to provide an option with the G9ii internals and the L-mount externals.
Another approach, possibly a better approach, would be to have a m43 camera with interchangeable lens mounts. Panasonic could have a interchangeable L-mount and m43 mount camera. Depending on the lens type you are using, you would use the corresponding mount. The interchangeable mounts would properly mount either these types of lenses, all with the correct flange distances.

Blackmagic uses this idea with their URSA Mini Pro video camera. It has lens mounts for PL, EF and F mount lenses. They state "Use virtually any professional lens!"

A design for this could be pretty squeezed because of the short flange distances of these mounts, but it should be possible.

The purpose would be to use your L-mount lenses on your m43 camera, and get the benefit of X2 the focal length.

Would I buy it? I already have m43 telephoto lenses. And I like the smaller size of m43 telephoto lenses. So I probably wouldn't buy it. But it might have merit for an L-mount user that wants to add a cropped sensor telephoto option.
 
Another approach, possibly a better approach, would be to have a m43 camera with interchangeable lens mounts. Panasonic could have a interchangeable L-mount and m43 mount camera. Depending on the lens type you are using, you would use the corresponding mount. The interchangeable mounts would properly mount either these types of lenses, all with the correct flange distances.

Blackmagic uses this idea with their URSA Mini Pro video camera. It has lens mounts for PL, EF and F mount lenses. They state "Use virtually any professional lens!"

A design for this could be pretty squeezed because of the short flange distances of these mounts, but it should be possible.

The purpose would be to use your L-mount lenses on your m43 camera, and get the benefit of X2 the focal length.

Would I buy it? I already have m43 telephoto lenses. And I like the smaller size of m43 telephoto lenses. So I probably wouldn't buy it. But it might have merit for an L-mount user that wants to add a cropped sensor telephoto option.
I agree that if technically feasible this would be a better approach. The Blackmagic mounts seem to retail for around $200-400 each (ie about the same cost as a TC) so not an major additional expense. I do wonder whether, with the camera market shrinking, the major camera manufacturers may eventually be forced to consider a standard mount across all brands.

They would not agree to this easily and would probably only happen at the point that overall business viability is looking shaky. Phone manufacturers were eventually forced down this route with charging connectors, but even then Apple have resisted. Still many years away at best I think, even though many consumers would see it as a big positive. Personally I would love to be able to mount the Nikon 400 f4.5 or Canon 100-500 on my S5 (in a completely seamless way).
 
An S1R mark ii with a 61Mp sensor would give you 25Mp APSC crops. I think that would be a better approach. As a bonus, you could also offer "small" FF raws of about 25Mp via over-sampling. That would produce some very clean files of manageable size that would suit photographers who shoot a lot of frames (events, sports etc).

In fact, going for a high Mp FF camera with flexible framing and cropping makes a lot of sense:

- In FF max res mode, it would suit those looking for the highest resolution (landscapes, studio).
- In APSC crop mode it would suit those looking to use crop lenses, or to increase the effective reach of longer lenses (sports, wildlife).
- In FF "small raw" mode It would give the option of smaller raw files for people who shoot a lot of frames in one session (weddings, sports).


I think this would be a better way to go for Panasonic rather than offering APSC.

If people really want a cropped body, then the G9ii takes a lot of beating.
Precisely the reason I chose the Nikon Z7 II for my FX/DX use. :cool:
 
No. They already have m4/3 & 36x24, why introduce another? In a shrinking market. That would be just dumb, especially for a format that is already not particularly popular at all. If it were growing like wildfire, it might be worth considering, but definitely not in the current market. Suicidal springs to mind
 
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