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Electronic shutter on Lumix S cameras

pdk42

pdk42

Moderator
I was reading the DPR review of the S9 and it claims that raw file DR is constrained on the S9 due to the lack of a mechanical shutter (because bit depth of readout is reduced to 12 bits).

Now, by all accounts, the S9 is a re-packaged S5ii from the sensor and associated electronics point of view, so I'm assuming that the S5ii will similarly exhibit reduced DR if the electronic shutter is used.

Does anyone know if this applies to the S5 too? And how about the S1 and the S1R?

I can't find any solid information by web searches.
 
Not sure; never saw anything that would indicate - on the older bodies - that the electronic shutter limits bit depth.

I did do a simple test on the S5. Two base ISO images, heavily under-exposed (i.e., nearly completely black OOC) then pushed the exposure & shadows to their max. One was mechanical shutter, and the other was electronic. Could not see a difference between the two.
 
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There was a discussion about this on here months ago involving ES in HR, 30fps and maybe bracketing modes. I think HR increases DR anyway as does exposure brackets overall. 30fps will be for sports or similar and not bothered. No idea whether it would matter in focus bracketing, haven't used that either.

I've yet to use any of the above and zero concern when I do given all other parameters and everything else that goes into a final photo.

If you're really going berserk pushing shadows you should be bracketing instead if possible, inside a dark church with stained glass windows etc.
 
pdk42 said:
Now, by all accounts, the S9 is a re-packaged S5ii from the sensor and associated electronics point of view, so I'm assuming that the S5ii will similarly exhibit reduced DR if the electronic shutter is used.

Does anyone know if this applies to the S5 too? And how about the S1 and the S1R?
Click to expand...

The S5II manual page 121 (see below) states that RAW images are recorded in 14-bit except during burst recording where the camera drops to 12-bit. It does not say that this has anything to do with electronic vs mechanical shutter. My understanding is that the drop in bit depth on the S5II was done to attain higher FPS recording rates than the original S5.

The S5 has no such constraints and records in 14-bit depth.

The S9 by default records in 12 bit depth (see manual page 111 below) and I assume this was done to retain the 30 FPS burst speed. I don't think it has anything to do with the lack of mechanical shutter given that the S5II has no such limitation. I think the DPR reviewers have made an assumption about the S9 because some other brands (notably Canon) drop bit depth with their electronic shutter. Panasonic has never said this is the case.

As Oíche mentioned above, there have been some posts about bit-depth of the S5II in the forums here and at DPR too.

S5 Mark II Manual S9 Manual
 
The manual speaks of Silky Pics RAW software obviously not available for phones but I'm wondering will they give LumixLabs RAW editing capability? It's probably not a priority for them but it would be very useful for RAW users like myself... 8 bit jpeg vs 14/12 bit puts it into context.
 
pdk42 said:
I was reading the DPR review of the S9 and it claims that raw file DR is constrained on the S9 due to the lack of a mechanical shutter (because bit depth of readout is reduced to 12 bits).
Click to expand...
Please don't make me read a DPR review review. :(
 
Pete_W said:
The S5II manual page 121 (see below) states that RAW images are recorded in 14-bit except during burst recording where the camera drops to 12-bit. It does not say that this has anything to do with electronic vs mechanical shutter. My understanding is that the drop in bit depth on the S5II was done to attain higher FPS recording rates than the original S5.

The S5 has no such constraints and records in 14-bit depth.

The S9 by default records in 12 bit depth (see manual page 111 below) and I assume this was done to retain the 30 FPS burst speed. I don't think it has anything to do with the lack of mechanical shutter given that the S5II has no such limitation. I think the DPR reviewers have made an assumption about the S9 because some other brands (notably Canon) drop bit depth with their electronic shutter. Panasonic has never said this is the case.

As Oíche mentioned above, there have been some posts about bit-depth of the S5II in the forums here and at DPR too.

View attachment 7901 View attachment 7902
Click to expand...
Thanks for those manual page copies Pete. From the horses mouth and very clear. Another reason for me to not buy an S9!

I just took a look at the S1R manual and there is zero mention of raw file bit depth at all. I'll do some tests and try to see if there is any visible difference between the shutter modes.
 
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pdk42 said:
I just took a look at the S1R manual and there is zero mention of raw file bit depth at all. I'll do some tests and try to see if there is any visible difference between the shutter modes.
Click to expand...

I just did a Google search and found this, by a certain @GeorgeHudetz :

S1R_eshutter.jpg
 
Pete_W said:
I watched the DPR video review of the S9 recently. Big mistake. :eek:
Click to expand...
They do seem to have a negative view of things Panasonic. The reviews of the Fuji XM5 and Sony ZV-E1 seem much more positive even though all three are targeted at video-mainly users and where actually the S9 is probably the best camera. Odd.
 
pdk42 said:
They do seem to have a negative view of things Panasonic. The reviews of the Fuji XM5 and Sony ZV-E1 seem much more positive even though all three are targeted at video-mainly users and where actually the S9 is probably the best camera. Odd.
Click to expand...
Yes, I don't understand why but it's always been that way. Same with Chris at PetaPixel. He seems to have an axe to grind. I've even heard him complain about the fact that Panasonic lenses are well corrected for focus breathing because to him, that means they are not as good for stills. He always finds something to complain about.
 
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