Panasonic S5R and Leica SL3 coming?

[Quentinquirelino]

There are new rumors around about a high resolution camera from Panasonic and its's cousin from Leica.

For the Leica SL3 the talk is about basically Leica Q3 specification in a SL with 6.5 EV stabilization.

For the Panasonic the talk is about the same 62 MPix resolution, 9 fps mechanical shutter in full resolution and 60 fps electronic shutter with 15 MPix (if i got that right from translation). Also mentioned are OpenGate 3:2 4,8K/59,94fps, 17:9 4,8K/59,94fps, 9,5K Oversampling C8K/23,98fps, 4,8K Oversampling C4K/96,00fps, 1,16 x-Crop C4K/119,88 fps. And the reason I called it S5R. According to the source, it will have a S5II form factor.

However. According to L-rumors.com, a high resolution Panasonic L-Mount camera will come at the second half of 2024. So it's probably not the new registration in china from late september from Panasonic, what was identified as the camera at weibo and photorumors. Or L-Rumors got this one wrong.

sources:

Both Leica and Panasonic to announce new L-mount cameras in the next few months - Photo Rumors

Both Leica and Panasonic are rumored to announce new L-mount cameras in the next few months: Leica registered a new Type 5404 camera (2023AJ18816, 2023-11-04): New Leica Type 5404 camera registered in Asia (Leica SL3?) Panasonic registered a new P2303A camera (2023AP16161, 2023-09-28): Update...

photorumors.com

Sina Visitor System

RUMOR: Leica SL3 coming in early 2024 and Panasonic S1R successor the second half of the year? - L mount system camera rumors and news

https://youtu.be/l9QiscOh4pk I got this triple rumor from a source. He said: The Panasonic 100mm macro is going to be announced in January In early 2024 we will get a High Resolution Leica SL-3 Panasonic high resolution camera is coming the second half of the year

www.l-rumors.com

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

That would be fantastic. Hope it happens.

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

...although I'd sure miss the S1's rear screen.

 

[lipwen]

Sina Visitor System

I just browsed through the Weibo link. I know Chinese so I can assist with the translation and provide my own take on the rumors:

1. "L社和P社将摇摇乐提升到240M，或许利好Leica的APO-SUMMICRON-SL镜头群？"
Leica and Panasonic's new camera will have pixel shift Hi-res photo improved to 240MP, perhaps in line with Leica's new APO-SUMMICRON-SL lenses?
If this is true, this more or less confirms that the new Hi-res bodies from both Leica and Panasonic will have a 60MP sensor.

2. "根据可靠信息确认，两者采用同一套无线方案（模组一致），并且关系非常紧密。"
According to trusted sources, both bodies use the same communications framework (BT, Wifi etc), and internals are very close to each other.
This is similar to past Panasonic-Leica bodies, The S1R and the SL2 basically share the same internals, while the S5 and SL2-S share the same internals. Plausible

3. "目前基本可信的信息：
1. 多方声称它们共用感光像素设计，为高像素机型，传感器总像素量62Mp"
Currently more-or-less confirmed rumors:
Multiple sources said both bodies use the same sensor, will be marketed as hi-res camera bodies, sensor total resolution is 62MP
The author also speculated that this might be the Sony IMX455 sensor used in the A7RIV and A7RV

4. "目前尚未明确的信息：
2. L社侧的信息源认为是Leica Q3/Leica M11 共用CIS的SL系统产物，因为其支持摇摇乐240Mp，支持6.5档防抖，支持相位对焦，最高连拍速度9fps，支持裁切的8K/30p和4K/60p+全画幅&S35 C4K/30p。规格基本近似Leica Q3。"
Currently unconfirmed rumors:
Source within Leica believes that this new Leica body shares the same sensor with the Leica Q3 and M11, and supports Pixel Shift Hi-res up to 240MP, 6.5 stops of IBIS, has PDAF, maximum burst rate of 9fps (no mention of mechanical or electronic shutter, I assume it's mechanical), supports cropped 8K/30p and 4K/60p recording, full frame or S35 C4K/30p. Form factor is similar to Leica Q3.
5. "P社侧的信息源提供了一个信息：四重原色カラーフィルター，为P社深度定制的CIS，无LPF。该产品基本性能、外观与S5M2几乎一致，分辨率60M，9fps 14bit机械快门连拍，15M 60fps 电子快门连拍，EV -6 - 18对焦性能，有相位对焦系统。其中，全画幅模式 视频相比S5M2有提升：OpenGate 3:2 4.8K/59.94fps, 17:9 4.8K/59.94fps, 9.5K超采样 C8K/23.98fps, 4.8K超采样 C4K/96.00fps, 1.16x裁切 C4K/119.88fps, 16:9在17:9高度裁切水平像素。"
Cont from unconfirmed rumors: Source within Panasonic only provided this information: sensor will have 4-color filter array, which custom made to a high degree for Panasonic, no low pass filter.
The new camera body's functions, design and form factor is almost identical to the S5M2, sensor resolution is 60MP, supports maximum burst rate of 9fps at 14-bit using mechanical shutter. 60fps electronic shutter but at 15MP only.
AF works in EV -6 environment, supports PDAF.
Video recording in full frame has improvement over the S5M2: OpenGate 3:2 4.8K/59.94fps, 17:9 4.8K/59.94fps, 9.5K Oversampled C8K/23.98fps, 4.8K oversampled C4K/96.00fps, 1.16x cropped C4K/119.88fps。

A lot to take in. Some of the info seems contradictory. If both Leica and Panasonic are using the same sensor, how come the sensor Panasonic uses are custom made? Unless it means Panasonic made their own tweaks to the sensor. Does the 4-color filter array means it's using a RGBW array instead of Bayer array? But this seems to suggest it to be a S5R instead of a S1R successor (which may be a bummer for some, the S1R body is universally loved apart from the weight). Video specs look too good to be true imo, as with the Sony A7R V, rolling shutter will be a huge issue for video. I can't see how Panasonic can minimize the rolling shutter of this sensor without using a stacked sensor design, and if it does use a stacked sensor, a stacked 60MP sensor will cost an arm and a leg.

"总结：
除了确定双方有新机，不确定发生了啥，好像有股IMX455类似物的味道。"
Conclusion, apart from the fact that both companies have a new body coming, I have no idea what is happening. Sensor seems to be something like the IMX455.
This is the author's conclusion, which I concur. I have no idea what are they cooking behind the doors.

 

[Quentinquirelino]

I just browsed through the Weibo link. I know Chinese so I can assist with the translation and provide my own take on the rumors:

Thank you for your efforts. I had to use google translate and the translations can sometimes be a bit off.

...

A lot to take in. Some of the info seems contradictory. If both Leica and Panasonic are using the same sensor, how come the sensor Panasonic uses are custom made? Unless it means Panasonic made their own tweaks to the sensor. Does the 4-color filter array means it's using a RGBW array instead of Bayer array? But this seems to suggest it to be a S5R instead of a S1R successor (which may be a bummer for some, the S1R body is universally loved apart from the weight). Video specs look too good to be true imo, as with the Sony A7R V, rolling shutter will be a huge issue for video. I can't see how Panasonic can minimize the rolling shutter of this sensor without using a stacked sensor design, and if it does use a stacked sensor, a stacked 60MP sensor will cost an arm and a leg.

I think that's basically how it works with all manufacturer buying there sensors from Sony or other companies. It's never exactly the same sensor, but the same base with custom adjustments. In this case the base is the same 61 or 62 Mpix Sensor but every manufacturer can chose a different filter stack and so on.

As for the video part, I don't think that Panasonic has much options to reduce the rolling shutter of the sensor by much. It's not a huge deal for most Leica shooters but Panasonic can't make a video centred camera with this sensor. However, I think it's very realistic that we see L-Mount cameras from Panasonic and Leica with this sensor. Basically because Leica already used it in other cameras. But I'm quite sure that Panasonic will also deliver something with a faster sensor and probably less resolution. I think this rumor is about a mostly stills orientated camera. But there also will be something more for the needs of videographers.

 

[CharlesH]

These rumored specs are exciting, and it's interesting to see what may emerge. In my case I'd like to eventually replace my Sony A1 with an L-Mount camera. I use the A1 for wildlife photography, and for 8K video. Unfortunately the A1's stacked sensor is key to both of these applications, high frame rate for wildlife, and low rolling shutter for 8K; so this rumored camera may not be the one.

 

[Lsake]

@lipwen thanks for the translation.

I hope there will be an option for lower speed electronic burst at full resolution, but 8-9fps mechanical is fine for me. What I really want is them to release the roadmapped 100-500mm super tele lens.

 

[Thomas Mottl]

I am now using my S1R since 4 years shot nearly 200k pictures and I feel no GAS at all. 60MP? Don't care at all. Better AF, I am not shooting any Wildlife or Sport or Kiddies so it will improve nothing for me.
I would like to see a 16bit RAW sensor or new Pro lenses.
But this is my personal ranting

 

[GeorgeHudetz]

I am now using my S1R since 4 years shot nearly 200k pictures and I feel no GAS at all. 60MP? Don't care at all. Better AF, I am not shooting any Wildlife or Sport or Kiddies so it will improve nothing for me.
I would like to see a 16bit RAW sensor or new Pro lenses.
But this is my personal ranting

Funny you say that. Now there is a rumor of an S2R, allegedly to be released late 2024.

But I'm with you on the S1R - I love mine, and use it mostly for landscape. However, I do also shoot wildlife - a bit - and thus would welcome better AF. And I shoot astro, for which the S1R's sensor is poorly suited. So I'd welcome an S2R with an updated sensor as well. An S5IIR is also appealing, but I hate that rear flippy screen, so if they do both, I'd probably buy the S2R.