Manual Lenses: A Modern Approach?

[bozaman]

The Budget Manual Lens Sickness: Vintage Feel Without the Fungus (S5II Edition)​

Alright, fellow nerds. Following up on my introduction post madness, I confessed my interest in adapting vintage glass to the Panasonic S5II. But lately, I’ve been having a dangerous thought: Why hunt down 50-ish year-old, potentially moldy lenses when companies are manufacturing new budget glass that replicates the manual focus pain?

It’s the best of both worlds! You get the purely tactile, slowdown-or-fail workflow, but you mitigate the vintage lens gamble. No more squinting at eBay photos, wondering, "Is that haze, or just someone's thumbprint from 1978?" Plus, some of these come in native L-Mount, eliminating one more annoying adapter.

The question is: Am I truly a connoisseur of "the process," or am I just a poser who likes shiny things that cost less than a proper coffee grinder?

My Shameful Acquisitions (And Why I Hate Money)​

Given the criminally (in comparison) low prices of some of these lenses, I've jumped in headfirst. Here's the list of my current commitment to manual focus therapy:

Lens Name​	Price ($ USD)​	Lens Mount​	The Highs (Pros)​	The Lows (Cons)​
Pergear 35mm f/1.4	$99​	L Mount​	Native L-Mount (no adapter shame), adorable tiny size, fully metal build, lens hood included, throws great character, less than a hundred bucks.	My only con is that I haven't found a con yet. Give me time.
TT Artisan 50mm f/1.4	$295​	Leica M (Adapted)​	Serious weight and heft, feels indestructible, fantastic character.	M-Mount requires an adapter (I like pain), heavy enough to be used as an anchor, where's my damn lens hood?
TT Artisan 50mm f/2.0	$63​	L Mount​	SIXTY-THREE DOLLARS!!! Native L-Mount! Tiny, all-metal, I could afford to lose it and not cry.	Only f/2.0? Pathetic! (Just kidding, but still... where's the bokeh?), no lens hood provided (but did I mention the price!?).

So, Am I Winning?​

The overall experience is great. I get to use the S5II's fantastic Focus Peaking and IBIS to cheat, while still feeling superior because I manually adjusted the aperture. I'm happy with the (limited) results so far, but maybe I'm just telling myself that to justify my rapidly expanding collection of shiny, cheap metal cylinders of glass.

What about you? Have you ditched the vintage hunt for these modern, budget, manual-only gems? Should I stick to the actual cracked and moldy glass, or is this the superior form of manual focus snobbery?

--

 

[Pete_W]

I think you make a good point about old mouldy lenses.

The only MF lens I have is the Panasonic's 24mm pancake which came for free with my S9. It provided great results although I didn't really enjoy the MF process that much.

I had a Praktica film SLR many years ago with a MF 50mm lens. When I finally upgraded to a Nikon F90x with AF and lots of other features, I never looked back!

But, whatever floats your boat!

 

[pdk42]

I started photography back in the 70s with a Praktica L. M42 screw mount and manual everything. I have no desire to go back to those days. Give me my AF, my aperture adjusted from the camera, my EXIF info, even my thermal composite construction! I also prefer zooms because they are so good these days. For me, it’s mostly about the output and the gear delivering it with the least fuss.

I have one MF lens only - the TTArtisan fisheye, and if I could find an AF fisheye, it would be gone!

But I know some love the slow and more engaged process of manual lenses, so I’m not judging and I hope you like your new MF lenses. For sure these Chinese companies like TTArtisan, 7Artisans, Meike, Pergear etc make some excellent stuff with gorgeous metal build at astonishingly low prices.

 

[CharlesH]

What about you? Have you ditched the vintage hunt for these modern, budget, manual-only gems? Should I stick to the actual cracked and moldy glass, or is this the superior form of manual focus snobbery?

Believe it or not, all almost all high end movies are done with manual focus. They may have a "focus puller" for each camera - this is a crew member with skill and experience with manual focus. The reason, you need exact control of focus for a movie, and you don't want focus to change at the whim of an auto-focus system.

I do quite a bit of video with Lumix cameras and very often I'll also use manual focus for this same reason. I also have some anamorphic lenses for video, and these are strictly manual focus. So I do quite a bit of manual focusing.

Also, for what it's worth, I usually set shutter speed and aperture manually for both photos and video. This comes from video work where you don't want exposure changing during a shoot, and this habit translated over to photos.

And no, I've never had much appetite for vintage lenses. I had bad experience with adapters early on, and gave up on old lenses. I think it is much better nowadays, but I've moved on. But I really like your idea and work with these modern manual focus lenses, and applaud it.

 

[bozaman]

I started photography back in the 70s with a Praktica L. M42 screw mount and manual everything. I have no desire to go back to those days. Give me my AF, my aperture adjusted from the camera, my EXIF info, even my thermal composite construction! I also prefer zooms because they are so good these days. For me, it’s mostly about the output and the gear delivering it with the least fuss.

I have one MF lens only - the TTArtisan fisheye, and if I could find an AF fisheye, it would be gone!

But I know some love the slow and more engaged process of manual lenses, so I’m not judging and I hope you like your new MF lenses. For sure these Chinese companies like TTArtisan, 7Artisans, Meike, Pergear etc make some excellent stuff with gorgeous metal build at astonishingly low prices.

You are absolutely right, @pdk42. For the vast majority of practical, day-to-day, and professional shooting, there is zero debate: the convenience, speed, and accuracy of modern AF zooms, camera-controlled aperture, and full EXIF data make the output infinitely better, with a fraction of the fuss. You’re prioritizing the final image with minimal logistical interference, and that is absolutely the smart way to work!

My foray into the manual lens territory is definitely less about finding the best tool and more about finding the most engaging toy. It's a silly hobbyist indulgence, a nostalgic attempt to force myself to slow down and use my brain (and the S5II's Focus Peaking life-support) when I don't need to be efficient.

 

[bozaman]

Believe it or not, all almost all high end movies are done with manual focus. They may have a "focus puller" for each camera - this is a crew member with skill and experience with manual focus. The reason, you need exact control of focus for a movie, and you don't want focus to change at the whim of an auto-focus system.

I do quite a bit of video with Lumix cameras and very often I'll also use manual focus for this same reason. I also have some anamorphic lenses for video, and these are strictly manual focus. So I do quite a bit of manual focusing.

Also, for what it's worth, I usually set shutter speed and aperture manually for both photos and video. This comes from video work where you don't want exposure changing during a shoot, and this habit translated over to photos.

And no, I've never had much appetite for vintage lenses. I had bad experience with adapters early on, and gave up on old lenses. I think it is much better nowadays, but I've moved on. But I really like your idea and work with these modern manual focus lenses, and applaud it.

Thanks, @CharlesH.

It makes perfect sense why you'd stick with manual focus for critical video work, especially with anamorphic glass where precision is everything and you simply cannot tolerate the "whim" of an AF system. So, while I'm playing around for character and nostalgia, you're embracing MF for exact, professional necessity. Total respect!

That is a killer point about high-end cinema ... I totally forgot about the noble focus puller! That makes my little struggles feel slightly more legitimate now; I'm not just a struggling amateur, I'm a one-person crew playing both the director and the focus puller (badly, but still!). I have to remember that I'm under no illusions of ever going pro, I simply love the process of being creative and continuously learning.

 

[bozaman]

I think you make a good point about old mouldy lenses.

The only MF lens I have is the Panasonic's 24mm pancake which came for free with my S9. It provided great results although I didn't really enjoy the MF process that much.

I had a Praktica film SLR many years ago with a MF 50mm lens. When I finally upgraded to a Nikon F90x with AF and lots of other features, I never looked back!

But, whatever floats your boat!

Thanks, @Pete_W!

Haha, I totally get it ... the jump from a Praktica to AF must have been a game-changer, and it sounds like you never looked back! I appreciate that these new lenses dodge the fungus issue, even if they can't sell you on the MF process itself.

I had a similar journey! Going from the Minolta X-700 to the AF power of the Nikon N80 and then the F100 felt like cheating, and I loved it! It’s hilarious that now, decades later, I'm intentionally trying to recreate the struggle I paid good money to escape. Time is a flat circle, or maybe my brain just enjoys pain. Perspective definitely changes over time.

 

[Travis Butler]

What about you? Have you ditched the vintage hunt for these modern, budget, manual-only gems?

Not really...

Should I stick to the actual cracked and moldy glass, or is this the superior form of manual focus snobbery?

I do like the feel and more contemplative process of using manual lenses, but I also like the look of vintage lenses. And while modern manual lenses are nice (and I love the TTArtisan fisheye), they lose the vintage look I enjoy.

It helps that I get almost all of my manual lenses from local sales, not eBay. So I can inspect them for mold, cracks, and the like, and make sure they're in reasonable condition.

My foray into the manual lens territory is definitely less about finding the best tool and more about finding the most engaging toy. It's a silly hobbyist indulgence, a nostalgic attempt to force myself to slow down and use my brain (and the S5II's Focus Peaking life-support) when I don't need to be efficient.

I've said it before, I'll say it again - I think I do better work when I'm engaged. Which is one reason I like manual lenses; with focus peaking in particular, I can watch as the focus point moves across the frame and see what's going to be in focus.

 

[pdk42]

@bozaman - Despite my pouring of cold water on your enthusiasm for manual lenses, I confess that I do have a few old OM Zuiko examples and an OM to L converter. I’ve done some playing around and this is my analysis:

- Late 50mm f1.8 - actually very good. Acceptably sharp into the corners even wide open. Good contrast and colours. All it needs is AF to challenge my Panasonic 50mm f1.8 which is twice the size but performs beautifully!

- 24mm f2.8 - not sure of the age, but it's not a great performer. Centre of the frame is OK at f2.8, but the edges and corners are awful. By about f11 the sharpness across the frame is almost acceptable, but not quite.

- 100mm f2.8 - another late model, which I actually bought "new" in a closeout sale. It had been sat in its box unsold since the 1980s! And it's another great performer - quite the lens (not that I do any).

- 135mm f3.5 - just awful.

It's fun to play with these from time to time, but I'd never do anything serious with them!

 

[PJD]

I agree that inexpensive lenses (new or old) can be fun. I've owned a few over the years.

I currently own two >50-yr--old, fully-manual, adapted F-mount lenses I use with my S5iiX, in addition to two modern AF/AE lenses (noted in my signature).

I almost never use AF/AE to control focus/exposure. Instead I use AF/AE to indicate/measure what focus & exposure I might use for a scene, and then manually choose the settings I want immediately before fully depressing the shutter. This is how I've shot photos & videos for decades. Very occasionally I'll put my camera in full-automatic mode when needed, but I'm often not happy with the result.

Having said that, I don't usually shoot selfies, weddings, fast-action, sports, birds in flight, etc. I sometimes wish I had a relatively expensive (for me) telephoto lens appropriate for birds in flight shooting. Such as this, or this. But I don't get enough opportunities to justify the expensive.

 

[pdk42]

It's good that the latest Panasonic bodies support the creation of lens info so that it gets written into the EXIF. But we're still left in the dark as to which f-stop was used for a shot. It would be a fairly simple firmware feature, I think, to allow the use of a dial to record the f stop used and to write that into the EXIF.

 

[pdk42]

I sometimes wish I had a relatively expensive (for me) telephoto lens appropriate for birds in flight shooting. Such as this, or this. But I don't get enough opportunities to justify the expensive.

If I ever wanted to do long lens stuff, I'd get a m43 body and the Oly 150-400. Not cheap, but it delivers!

 

[Pete_W]

I had a similar journey! Going from the Minolta X-700 to the AF power of the Nikon N80 and then the F100 felt like cheating, and I loved it! It’s hilarious that now, decades later, I'm intentionally trying to recreate the struggle I paid good money to escape. Time is a flat circle, or maybe my brain just enjoys pain. Perspective definitely changes over time.

Yes, perspective certainly does change over time!

I miss using film, e.g. going to the camera store, selecting different types of film, loading and shooting etc. But it's great that I don't have to take film to the lab any more to be processed, pay for the full set of prints even though half of the photos didn't turn out all that well and not being able to do much about it.

Being able to process digitally is so good. Except the software vendors do force me to upgrade my computer more often than I'd like!

 

[Jonathan-Mac]

I am a big fan of vintage lenses and own quite a few from various brands and I enjoy using them, especially on my S5. I used to use them (and occasionally still do) on my Pentax DSLRs and Fujifilm cameras but they have gained a new lease of life on full-frame mirrorless as they're much easier to focus and have their originally-intended field of view. I also use them on film, though that has diminished a lot since I got the S5, which scratches a large part of the itch. The results are usually technically inferior to those that I could get from my modern lenses but that's not the point - I enjoy the manual focus experience and getting good results despite the outdated gear I use. I think it makes me a better photographer.

The only modern manual focus lens I own is a Pergear 35mm f/1.6 for my Fujifilm X-mount cameras. It does an OK job but doesn't feel nearly as nice as the metal-build vintage lenses from yesteryear, plus it focuses well beyond infinity and the distance markers on the focus ring are complete nonsense, really just there to look nice. I'm sure there are better ones available and I have considered some (like the 35mm f/1.4) but have yet to buy one as I feel they are a poor substitute for real vintage lenses.

There are lots of sub-par lenses out there - bad designs, bad copies, fungus, dust, balsam separation, sticky aperture blades, broken mechanisms... but I have seen them all and know what to check for and how so it's very rare that I get a duff copy of something and don't have the option to return it.

 

[PJD]

I’ve bought & sold several vintage lenses from/to www.keh.com

Highly recommended!

 

[NerdyTimelapser]

I have a pretty big collection of vintage glass and most of them look like new, maybe the Dutch climate is good against fungus haha. But I enjoy hunting for nice vintage glass, and often I only pay 10 to 15 euro for a great lens.

 

[bozaman]

Not really...

I do like the feel and more contemplative process of using manual lenses, but I also like the look of vintage lenses. And while modern manual lenses are nice (and I love the TTArtisan fisheye), they lose the vintage look I enjoy.

It helps that I get almost all of my manual lenses from local sales, not eBay. So I can inspect them for mold, cracks, and the like, and make sure they're in reasonable condition.

I've said it before, I'll say it again - I think I do better work when I'm engaged. Which is one reason I like manual lenses; with focus peaking in particular, I can watch as the focus point moves across the frame and see what's going to be in focus.

It's a fair point @Travis Butler ... while the new budget lenses are beautifully built, they don't quite replicate that specific, imperfect vintage look (although I think they can in some cases get very, very close).

And I totally second your point on engagement: there’s nothing like watching the focus plane slide across the frame via peaking; it makes me feel like I'm actually controlling the image, not just outsourcing it. Thanks for the input!

 

[bozaman]

@bozaman - Despite my pouring of cold water on your enthusiasm for manual lenses, I confess that I do have a few old OM Zuiko examples and an OM to L converter. I’ve done some playing around and this is my analysis:

- Late 50mm f1.8 - actually very good. Acceptably sharp into the corners even wide open. Good contrast and colours. All it needs is AF to challenge my Panasonic 50mm f1.8 which is twice the size but performs beautifully!

- 24mm f2.8 - not sure of the age, but it's not a great performer. Centre of the frame is OK at f2.8, but the edges and corners are awful. By about f11 the sharpness across the frame is almost acceptable, but not quite.

- 100mm f2.8 - another late model, which I actually bought "new" in a closeout sale. It had been sat in its box unsold since the 1980s! And it's another great performer - quite the lens (not that I do any).

- 135mm f3.5 - just awful.

It's fun to play with these from time to time, but I'd never do anything serious with them!

@pdk42 ... You absolute legend. The "pouring cold water" guy is secretly hoarding OM Zuiko lenses! That is the perfect plot twist!

I’m looking into the OM (and Konica / Takumar) range myself! Shame the 135mm bombed, but that's the lottery, right? Honestly, the lack of modern perfection is what draws me in. Acceptable center sharpness is my only desire; if the flaws give it a unique "look" that my modern lenses can't, I'll happily tolerate soft corners or other imperfections (except haze and fungus) any day.

 

[bozaman]

Yes, perspective certainly does change over time!

I miss using film, e.g. going to the camera store, selecting different types of film, loading and shooting etc. But it's great that I don't have to take film to the lab any more to be processed, pay for the full set of prints even though half of the photos didn't turn out all that well and not being able to do much about it.

Being able to process digitally is so good. Except the software vendors do force me to upgrade my computer more often than I'd like!

@Pete_W ...

Oh man ... you made me think of the darkroom! I miss the sense of magic watching the image appear, but definitely not the chemical baths and the fixer-reaction on my hands. You nailed the cost shift, though: the hours we spent acquiring film, doing the lab / darkroom processing efforts and cost have simply been transferred to spending too much on software (and endless upgrades) along with far too many hours post-processing. We’ve just swapped film and chemical fumes for digital addiction ... at least my hands haven't (yet) reacted to the software.

 

[bozaman]

I am a big fan of vintage lenses and own quite a few from various brands and I enjoy using them, especially on my S5. I used to use them (and occasionally still do) on my Pentax DSLRs and Fujifilm cameras but they have gained a new lease of life on full-frame mirrorless as they're much easier to focus and have their originally-intended field of view. I also use them on film, though that has diminished a lot since I got the S5, which scratches a large part of the itch. The results are usually technically inferior to those that I could get from my modern lenses but that's not the point - I enjoy the manual focus experience and getting good results despite the outdated gear I use. I think it makes me a better photographer.

The only modern manual focus lens I own is a Pergear 35mm f/1.6 for my Fujifilm X-mount cameras. It does an OK job but doesn't feel nearly as nice as the metal-build vintage lenses from yesteryear, plus it focuses well beyond infinity and the distance markers on the focus ring are complete nonsense, really just there to look nice. I'm sure there are better ones available and I have considered some (like the 35mm f/1.4) but have yet to buy one as I feel they are a poor substitute for real vintage lenses.

There are lots of sub-par lenses out there - bad designs, bad copies, fungus, dust, balsam separation, sticky aperture blades, broken mechanisms... but I have seen them all and know what to check for and how so it's very rare that I get a duff copy of something and don't have the option to return it.

@Jonathan-Mac I think you've nailed the essence of it! The "scratching the itch" is a really good perspective, and despite the "inferior" results it's the engagement and wonder of the final result that I'm chasing. For me, I want to participate and enjoy the journey as well as the destination.